Motul Grand Prix of Japan 2016 spoilers

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I am horrible with bets on this forum. Did I seriously lose a bet with myself?
Too bad you already got this spot filled.

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If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.
 
Sorry that I am so far behind. I spent too much time with Rossi fans this weekend. I whittled my way down from like 29 quotes. Thanks for giving me the chance to serve.

......
The only real justification I could see for going with Rossi is if his mythical bike development skills are not mythical, otherwise surely you go for the fastest rider. Once you start not making decisions on merit, you are lost in most human endeavours. ......
It's a business. How about m-o-n-e-y? Rossi brought fans and sponsors back to Yamaha. That's good enough.
How is Rossi being involved in bizarre scenarios last year my problem? My #1 rider is actually Tito Rabat. Rabat has been sandbagging all season and will show his true potential next year.
Tito Rabat???..... Dude, go back to Rossi, like NOW!
Unfortunately for both I think second is their best result in future as well, which would actually be an overachievement for Jorge on a Ducati.
I disagree. Lorenzo is going to beat Vinales on the Yamaha.
..... My observation was that MM takes even being vilified with eventual equanimity and even cheerfulness.
I don't think so. He was an innocent kid coming into the game. He doesn't want to be vilified, especially by his hero. He is just doing what he does best: Go fast and smile about it!
.......
I think "alien" status should be handed out carefully, not on a whim, like the way it was already done with Maverick Vinales. While talented, Vinales is not an alien rider no matter what Suzuki might have felt.
Thank goodness that Honda has a different standard than you. I thought like Honda. MM was an "alien" before he hit MotoGP. He started last on EQUAL equipment, ran through the field without bumping anyone, and won the damn race. H-e-l-l-o, area 51. That's an alien flying by there. ;)
 
Because it's about what you do when you aren't gifted a near perfect machine ala Valentino Rossi in 2002 or 2003 or even MM for 2013/2014 for example. When you are on one of the two best machines on the grid, you better win a title. Given the number of issues with the RC213V the last two years, this was a title only MM could have won among the 4 factory riders at the front. I feel comfortable in saying that MM could win a world title on the M1, Desmosedici, or the GSX-RR. I cannot say that about any other rider on the grid. Winning a race doesn't grant alien status, winning a title on a difficult machine does. It's why Stoner's 2007 title may be the greatest individual title victory in GP history. That bike was a handful to ride, and he utterly demolished the field that year.

While agree that Stoner's multiple victories on the 2007 bike were ungodly impressive, I would maintain that while the expression "alien" is rather newly minted, it would be applicable to Hailwood, Roberts, Lawson, Doohan, Schwantz (definitely on an inferior bike) and in particular Spencer. To say otherwise would seem to imply they were all ordinary.

I hesitate to speculate re: Stoner and Marquez... but in a pinch, I would go out on a limb and say Marquez (were there truly only one alien) is truly an alien. My only hesitation in saying so outright - is that we've never seen MM ride a 2007 MotoGp bike with the much less sophisticated electronics dialed all the way down. But then we're getting into 4-stroke vs 2-stroke riders territory.
 
Sorry Richy, that comment was in response to a comment somebody made and then withdrew by the look of it. It was a smart ... snipe and wasn't intended in a derogatory way to anyone else really and I should have withdrawn it.

What your saying sounds pretty reasonable actually, certainly explains a bit about last year. Rossi has huge pull in the series and I have no doubt he exploits it whenever he is able. I just don't think Michelin this year are at a stage where they could build tyres to suit Rossi if they wanted to. The huge choice of tyres and the inconsistency each round all just seems like they are taking as many stabs in the dark at is as they can and hoping a couple of them hit the mark. An expensive exercise on their part, but keeps them from having embarrassing tyre sitaatuions like Bridgestone did after PI was resurfaced.

Mis-read your post - and was in too big a hurry to reply - then retracted said reply as it wasn't appropriate. My bad.
 
Sorry that I am so far behind. I spent too much time with Rossi fans this weekend. I whittled my way down from like 29 quotes. Thanks for giving me the chance to serve.


It's a business. How about m-o-n-e-y? Rossi brought fans and sponsors back to Yamaha. That's good enough.

Tito Rabat???..... Dude, go back to Rossi, like NOW!

I disagree. Lorenzo is going to beat Vinales on the Yamaha.

I don't think so. He was an innocent kid coming into the game. He doesn't want to be vilified, especially by his hero. He is just doing what he does best: Go fast and smile about it!

Thank goodness that Honda has a different standard than you. I thought like Honda. MM was an "alien" before he hit MotoGP. He started last on EQUAL equipment, ran through the field without bumping anyone, and won the damn race. H-e-l-l-o, area 51. That's an alien flying by there. ;)
Money is a reason to keep Rossi, not a justification. Only an opinion, but I think decisions regarding the last 2 years of Rossi's riding career have cost them any chance they had of contending against MM for 3, and possibly 5, years. Maybe he will take over the team in his retirement as has been speculated and take Yamaha to great heights, but that is a gamble at best. I think they could have won this year had they concentrated on Yamaha vs Honda/MM rather than Rossi vs Lorenzo.

Lorenzo may well beat Vinales. His best result against MM on a Honda if he is riding a Ducati, and even then unlikely, is second in the championship however imo.

We pretty much agree about MM's attitude to the contretemps with Rossi last year. Definitely a don't get mad, get even guy. also definitely an alien, and just now it is hard to say anyone ever has clearly been better than him. I also thought of that moto 2 ride from the rear of the field in regard to him being an alien, although the well resourced teams still seem to find ways of having a little more performance even in spec series.
 
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Money is a reason to keep Rossi, not a justification. Only an opinion, but I think decisions regarding the last 2 years of Rossi's riding career have cost them any chance they had of contending against MM for 3, and possibly 5, years. Maybe he will take over the team in his retirement as has been speculated and take Yamaha to great heights, but that is a gamble at best. I think they could have won this year had they concentrated on Yamaha vs Honda/MM rather than Rossi vs Lorenzo.

Lorenzo may well beat Vinales. His best result against MM on a Honda if he is riding a Ducati is second in the championship however imo.

We pretty much agree about MM's attitude to the contretemps with Rossi last year. Definitely a don't get mad, get even guy. also definitely an alien, and just now it is hard to say anyone ever has clearly better than him. I also thought of that moto 2 ride from the rear of the field in regard to him being an alien, although the well resourced teams still seem to find ways of having a little more performance even in spec series.
I truely think we can get ready for some serious passes coming up when Marquez gets near Rossi. He tried to mend their relationship after Saloms death, now I don't think he gives a ..... As you said it's time to get even and I suspect if he has the pace he may end up finally playing with Rossi like he was accused of last year.
 
Here is something to ponder about aliens and the top teams and which is which.

Since MM hit the big show:
Marquez - 29 wins
Lorenzo - 20 wins
Rossi - 9 wins
Pedrosa - 7 wins

That leaves 4 wins for everyone else. And 3 of those are this year. Wow. These stats are why I think JLo will win on the Ducati, and MM may just break VR title and win records before he is done.
 
Here is something to ponder about aliens and the top teams and which is which.

Since MM hit the big show:
Marquez - 29 wins
Lorenzo - 20 wins
Rossi - 9 wins
Pedrosa - 7 wins

That leaves 4 wins for everyone else. And 3 of those are this year. Wow. These stats are why I think JLo will win on the Ducati, and MM may just break VR title and win records before he is done.

Clearly on those figures Yamaha had to go with the 38 year old who has won 9 races against MM rather than the 29 year old who has won 20 as their lead rider for the next 2 seasons.
 
While agree that Stoner's multiple victories on the 2007 bike were ungodly impressive, I would maintain that while the expression "alien" is rather newly minted, it would be applicable to Hailwood, Roberts, Lawson, Doohan, Schwantz (definitely on an inferior bike) and in particular Spencer. To say otherwise would seem to imply they were all ordinary.


Rainey.

I am a Doohan tragic but rate Rainey his equal and Schwantz behind both (I do however include Lawson and Spencer there or thereabouts as well)
 
Mis-read your post - and was in too big a hurry to reply - then retracted said reply as it wasn't appropriate. My bad.

All good mate, I figured that was probably what happened :happy:
 
While agree that Stoner's multiple victories on the 2007 bike were ungodly impressive, I would maintain that while the expression "alien" is rather newly minted, it would be applicable to Hailwood, Roberts, Lawson, Doohan, Schwantz (definitely on an inferior bike) and in particular Spencer. To say otherwise would seem to imply they were all ordinary.

I hesitate to speculate re: Stoner and Marquez... but in a pinch, I would go out on a limb and say Marquez (were there truly only one alien) is truly an alien. My only hesitation in saying so outright - is that we've never seen MM ride a 2007 MotoGp bike with the much less sophisticated electronics dialed all the way down. But then we're getting into 4-stroke vs 2-stroke riders territory.

I'm on the fence about Doohan more because the NSR500 was simply unbeatable. From what I understand, Rainey kept the YZR-500 competitive longer than it should have been, unfortunately to his detriment.

Regarding Stoner/Marquez, I do find it interesting that the inherent greatness of MM is far more easily noted than it ever was for Stoner, such to the point, that years after fans (not you) out there still can't comprehend Stoner's talent.
 
I'm on the fence about Doohan more because the NSR500 was simply unbeatable. From what I understand, Rainey kept the YZR-500 competitive longer than it should have been, unfortunately to his detriment.

Regarding Stoner/Marquez, I do find it interesting that the inherent greatness of MM is far more easily noted than it ever was for Stoner, such to the point, that years after fans (not you) out there still can't comprehend Stoner's talent.
I am not on the fence about Doohan at all. Giving all the credit to Honda is a huge mistake and negates all the pain and work that he and Burgess put into that bike to make it a winner. Doohan use to beat people on his destroyed tires. That Honda was a handful and didn't come out of the box a winner. Why do you think Rossi hired Burgess in the first place?

I dismissed Stoner in early 2007 because I was mislead, just like everyone else, that it was all the Ducati. They were supposedly ahead of the game with the tires and electronics and 800cc development. Some of that is true.

I then learned that Stoner virtually turned off the electronics and it was all him sliding it into and out of the corners, using the rear brake to induce a sideways entry, etc.. Not only was he flat tracking at 300kph, but he was dragging elbow before the before. Dovisioso talked about what Stoner did on a bike changing all the riders, when he was his team mate. He admitted to not being able to do what he saw on the data readouts from Stoner's Honda. Stoner is quite an amazing rider and still maybe my favorite to watch.
 
Congrats to Marquez for a great title win in 2016

The rest of the race was a snorefest...

Only the Manufacturers and team titles left to contest....so Yamaha will be keen to try win one of the two over HRC....which is good for JLo, otherwise I think he'd get less and less support from yamaha going into the final 3 rounds...
 
While agree that Stoner's multiple victories on the 2007 bike were ungodly impressive, I would maintain that while the expression "alien" is rather newly minted, it would be applicable to Hailwood, Roberts, Lawson, Doohan, Schwantz (definitely on an inferior bike) and in particular Spencer. To say otherwise would seem to imply they were all ordinary.

I hesitate to speculate re: Stoner and Marquez... but in a pinch, I would go out on a limb and say Marquez (were there truly only one alien) is truly an alien. My only hesitation in saying so outright - is that we've never seen MM ride a 2007 MotoGp bike with the much less sophisticated electronics dialed all the way down. But then we're getting into 4-stroke vs 2-stroke riders territory.
Hailwood? The.guy who won all his 500 championships against 500 thumpers while on the only MV (well, until Ago turned up)...who couldn't win in the inferior Honda? Who got flogged repeatedly in the *really* contested 350 class by Redman??
;-);-)
What a hack.
 
Hailwood? The.guy who won all his 500 championships against 500 thumpers while on the only MV (well, until Ago turned up)...who couldn't win in the inferior Honda? Who got flogged repeatedly in the *really* contested 350 class by Redman??
;-);-)
What a hack.
Don't pretend to know a lot about racing in hail woods day cos I wasn't even born. However my old man raves about hail wood and when I actually sat down and watched some videos of him on that ..... Ducati against works bikes I was pretty amazed:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0LnNP7mw7XY
 
Like I've said a while ago (at thee tim it was a strong rumor), papa Abraham threw some money on the tabe and brought his son back to GP racing. To a team that much needed the money.

Abraham joins Bautista at Aspar for 2017
Czech rider back to MotoGP after a season in WorldSBK
Tags MotoGP, 2016, Karel Abraham, Pull & Bear Aspar Team
Karel Abraham is set to rejoin the MotoGP paddock for 2017, with the Czech rider and GP winner moving from his Milwaukee BMW home in WorldSBK to partner Alvaro Bautista at Pull&Bear Aspar for next season.

Abraham began his career in the World Championship in 2005 in 125, before moving to 250 and Moto2™. The Czech rider won the final round of the Moto2™ World Championship in 2010, and then moved up to MotoGP - becoming a regular points scorer and top ten finisher. After a year in WorldSBK in 2016, the Czech rider returns to MotoGP for next season – aboard a Ducati Desmosedici GP15 at Pull&Bear Aspar.

Jorge Martínez “Aspar”, Team Manager: “We are happy to be joined by Karel Abraham for next season. He is a new rider for us, he is still young but he has a lot of experience: he has raced in every category of the World Championship and in MotoGP already on a Ducati. I hope and want to be able to give him a competitive crew and bike so that he can show his worth.”

Karel Abraham: “I am really pleased to come back to MotoGP. I started to work on this goal as soon as I knew there was a possibility. I am really happy: coming back to Ducati, which is my favourite bike, and also thinking about my first season with them, which was my best season. It’s an honour to be a part of this team, which is so famous in the paddock, so professional and so good, and together with Ducati I believe we can make a very good connection, I’m really looking forward to that.”
via motogp.com
 
I am not on the fence about Doohan at all. Giving all the credit to Honda is a huge mistake and negates all the pain and work that he and Burgess put into that bike to make it a winner. Doohan use to beat people on his destroyed tires. That Honda was a handful and didn't come out of the box a winner. Why do you think Rossi hired Burgess in the first place?

I dismissed Stoner in early 2007 because I was mislead, just like everyone else, that it was all the Ducati. They were supposedly ahead of the game with the tires and electronics and 800cc development. Some of that is true.

I then learned that Stoner virtually turned off the electronics and it was all him sliding it into and out of the corners, using the rear brake to induce a sideways entry, etc.. Not only was he flat tracking at 300kph, but he was dragging elbow before the before. Dovisioso talked about what Stoner did on a bike changing all the riders, when he was his team mate. He admitted to not being able to do what he saw on the data readouts from Stoner's Honda. Stoner is quite an amazing rider and still maybe my favorite to watch.
Hi,
If Stoner is riding the machine far too different from other riders, how could he help in developing a machine for other drivers?

Sent from my HTC One X+ using Tapatalk
 

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