Motul Grand Prix of Japan 2016 spoilers

evo9 · Oct 18, 2016

MigsAngel said:
Congrats to Marquez for a great title win in 2016

The rest of the race was a snorefest...

Only the Manufacturers and team titles left to contest....so Yamaha will be keen to try win one of the two over HRC....which is good for JLo, otherwise I think he'd get less and less support from yamaha going into the final 3 rounds...

Does this really matters? All things considered.

Samurai · Oct 18, 2016

p4p1 said:
See the 2011/2012/2013 RCV

I am new to motogp, thus asking

Sent from my HTC One X+ using Tapatalk

AJV80 · Oct 19, 2016

Ant West to replace Remy Gardner at PI.

LAST MINUTE MOTO2 RIDE FOR WEST - Australian Motorcycle News

Finish line · Oct 19, 2016

Speaking of moto2, with the return of Abraham to gp, Hernandez lost his seat. He is now moving back to Moto2. Agr team to be specific.

So he is leaving and Rabat is staying....

AJV80 · Oct 19, 2016

Remy riding at PI again, sorry Ant West but your out.

Remy Gardner released from Japan, will race at Phillip Island

Dr No · Oct 19, 2016

Finish line said:
Speaking of moto2, with the return of Abraham to gp, Hernandez lost his seat. He is now moving back to Moto2. Agr team to be specific.

So he is leaving and Rabat is staying....

The moneybag riders shuffling about.

Keshav · Oct 20, 2016

JPSLotus said:
I'm on the fence about Doohan more because the NSR500 was simply unbeatable. From what I understand, Rainey kept the YZR-500 competitive longer than it should have been, unfortunately to his detriment.

Regarding Stoner/Marquez, I do find it interesting that the inherent greatness of MM is far more easily noted than it ever was for Stoner, such to the point, that years after fans (not you) out there still can't comprehend Stoner's talent.

Always been of the mind that a rider can only win on what the team gives him. Remember Doohan wasn't the only guy on the NSR. I think his place is history is safe.

jimi · Oct 20, 2016

Here is an Oxley article on the NSR if anyone is interested.
NSR500.htm
Bike development skills are an important part any multi champs arsenal.

birdman · Oct 20, 2016

JPSLotus said:
I'm on the fence about Doohan more because the NSR500 was simply unbeatable. From what I understand, Rainey kept the YZR-500 competitive longer than it should have been, unfortunately to his detriment.

Regarding Stoner/Marquez, I do find it interesting that the inherent greatness of MM is far more easily noted than it ever was for Stoner, such to the point, that years after fans (not you) out there still can't comprehend Stoner's talent.

When he began his gp career in 1989 Doohan was perhaps unfortunate to encounter what is generally regarded as the most wicked 500cc of them all. The NSR had by far the most brutal light switch of a powerband mated to a pig of a chasis. Lawson said the bike was his greatest challenge and he enjoyed it but no other Honda rider could handle it, certainly not a rookie. Boppers talk about Rossi taming the NSR but the 1999 version was absolutely light years from 1989.

Doohan says it was the moment where he questioned whether he would continue. Luckily for him he became friends with Lawson, and thanks to Eddie learnt outright talent was not going to get him through in this class of riders. He had to get smart, train hard, be the complete package.

By 1991 it was still a lightswitch powerband but Doohans team had managed to refine the chasis to suit him just like Lawson did in 89 and Doohan was the only Honda rider to win a race that year. Think about that, in relation to other top riders like Rainey, Stoner, Marquez. The only one to tame the best.

For me as a Doohan fan that and obviously recovering from injuries that were about the worst seen made Doohan one of the all time greats. Remember Alberto Puig was supposed to be one of the real hard nuts of racing, he suffered a leg injury and never recovered more mentally than physically from it. Doohan did, bloody minded and a bit of a prick for sure by probably still my all time favorite rider.

Iamapony · Oct 20, 2016

Samurai said:
Hi,
If Stoner is riding the machine far too different from other riders, how could he help in developing a machine for other drivers?

He doesn't have to ride like that all the time. And he does not as a tester. At 85%, he wouldn't be sliding it into corners, etc. As far as hanging-off, everyone does it more, now. Marquez is the queen, but even some Moto2 guys need elbow sliders. At 85%, I imagine, Stoner is still plenty damn fast enough for development work.

evo9 said:
Does this really matters? All things considered.

Yes, it matters. It matters a lot to the manufacturers. And it matters to their marketing. Suzuka is a big deal to the manufacturers, too. Pretty big bragging rights at the Karaoke Klubs.

michaelm · Oct 20, 2016

birdman said:
When he began his gp career in 1989 Doohan was perhaps unfortunate to encounter what is generally regarded as the most wicked 500cc of them all. The NSR had by far the most brutal light switch of a powerband mated to a pig of a chasis. Lawson said the bike was his greatest challenge and he enjoyed it but no other Honda rider could handle it, certainly not a rookie. Boppers talk about Rossi taming the NSR but the 1999 version was absolutely light years from 1989.

Doohan says it was the moment where he questioned whether he would continue. Luckily for him he became friends with Lawson, and thanks to Eddie learnt outright talent was not going to get him through in this class of riders. He had to get smart, train hard, be the complete package.

By 1991 it was still a lightswitch powerband but Doohans team had managed to refine the chasis to suit him just like Lawson did in 89 and Doohan was the only Honda rider to win a race that year. Think about that, in relation to other top riders like Rainey, Stoner, Marquez. The only one to tame the best.

For me as a Doohan fan that and obviously recovering from injuries that were about the worst seen made Doohan one of the all time greats. Remember Alberto Puig was supposed to be one of the real hard nuts of racing, he suffered a leg injury and never recovered more mentally than physically from it. Doohan did, bloody minded and a bit of a prick for sure by probably still my all time favorite rider.

Hard to say anyone was greater than Eddie Lawson either, as your post implies.

Barbedwirebikerr · Oct 21, 2016

Iamapony said:
He doesn't have to ride like that all the time. And he does not as a tester. At 85%, he wouldn't be sliding it into corners, etc. As far as hanging-off, everyone does it more, now. Marquez is the queen, but even some Moto2 guys need elbow sliders. At 85%, I imagine, Stoner is still plenty damn fast enough for development work.

Yes, it matters. It matters a lot to the manufacturers. And it matters to their marketing. Suzuka is a big deal to the manufacturers, too. Pretty big bragging rights at the Karaoke Klubs.

Whats the point of testing if not pushing the limit. I disagree here.

Gaz · Oct 21, 2016

Barbedwirebikerr said:
Whats the point of testing if not pushing the limit. I disagree here.

Agreed.

Having a test rider who is slower that the race riders does not assist development in any way as that speed differential may well mean that a problem may not be identified until the racer has been able to test the bike at race pace and perhaps even for a race duration and the of course, the rectification is delayed as well as more costly.

Ideally (and I only say this because Stoner is mentioned) the fact that he is able to be at the pace of the racers (or extremely close) is beneficial as he is able to find and identify an issue that would negatively affect the racers and thus, by his identification it will allow the racers to continue to ride their known beasts. Of course and being fair, Ducati are a little lucky as Pirro is also quite quick and close to the pace of the race team which is not necessarily something that the other teams have at their disposal (remembering that Aoyama is one of the HRC test riders and they are still waiting for him to finish at Motegi)

Dr No · Oct 21, 2016

Barbedwirebikerr said:
Whats the point of testing if not pushing the limit. I disagree here.

Testing is about gathering data.
When you have two top flight riders (say, VR and JL) with completely different set-ups, who knows how to define the limit. A good test rider is someone who is consistent, and can translate bike responses to the team.
Most testing is donkey work anyway. eg: How to program a new yaw response to 20 lap old tyres....or how does the new ignition map affect consumption... you aren't going to get MM to do those nothing laps..

Gaz · Oct 21, 2016

Dr No said:
Testing is about gathering data.
When you have two top flight riders (say, VR and JL) with completely different set-ups, who knows how to define the limit. A good test rider is someone who is consistent, and can translate bike responses to the team.
Most testing is donkey work anyway. eg: How to program a new yaw response to 20 lap old tyres....or how does the new ignition map affect consumption... you aren't going to get MM to do those nothing laps..

True, but the closer that you can get to the speed of the main riders means the less likely the disparity and thus the smaller the potential for one of the teams riders to find an issue that was not found by the test rider (of course we are talking things being equal with tyres etc).

Absolutely correct and agree as well that much of the testing work is donkeys work and involves repetition of a specific task to obtain a specific result or set of results and this will generally not need the race pace tests that other aspects may require .

May well be wrong but ideally you want a Stoner/Pirro pace with a Hayden work ethic (and apologies as I am not sure if Nayasuga is still one of Yamaha testers - if so, give him a wildcard).

EDIT. IMO only here but I would really like to see each team have a test rider should they so choose and thus not be beholden to the whims of the factory. Sure it may be more costly but it also provides the prospect of additional data which can only be useful for either factory where it is relevant or the team where it identifies improvement opportunities.

idro9999 · Oct 23, 2016

AJV80 said:
Sorry Richy, that comment was in response to a comment somebody made and then withdrew by the look of it. It was a smart ... snipe and wasn't intended in a derogatory way to anyone else really and I should have withdrawn it.

What your saying sounds pretty reasonable actually, certainly explains a bit about last year. Rossi has huge pull in the series and I have no doubt he exploits it whenever he is able. I just don't think Michelin this year are at a stage where they could build tyres to suit Rossi if they wanted to. The huge choice of tyres and the inconsistency each round all just seems like they are taking as many stabs in the dark at is as they can and hoping a couple of them hit the mark. An expensive exercise on their part, but keeps them from having embarrassing tyre sitaatuions like Bridgestone did after PI was resurfaced.

Rossi has no more weight in Moto GP. Indeed Dorna wants to Rossi get much more slower in these lasting 2 years, in order to have a natural change of the Motogp star. If that didn't happen, Moto gp would have no future without Rossi.

Gaz · Oct 23, 2016

idro9999 said:
Rossi has no more weight in Moto GP. Indeed Dorna wants to Rossi get much more slower in these lasting 2 years, in order to have a natural change of the Motogp star. If that didn't happen, Moto gp would have no future without Rossi.

What about Uccio?

Does he carry influence?

AJV80 · Oct 23, 2016

idro9999 said:
Rossi has no more weight in Moto GP. Indeed Dorna wants to Rossi get much more slower in these lasting 2 years, in order to have a natural change of the Motogp star. If that didn't happen, Moto gp would have no future without Rossi.

I'm a Rossi fan/tragic myself so I'm not being biased when i say this, but Rossi carries more weight than anybody in the series and has for a long, long time.

Marquez I thought may have had similar pull after his stellar first two seasons in the sport but Rossi's preferential treatment/light punishment towards the end of last season with his incident with Marquez (who was out of championship contention) it was pretty clear to me as to who had more pull. If another rider had of behaved the way Rossi did I'm sure the penalty would have been much more severe.

I felt the gentle punishment was based on a combination of the fact that he was Rossi and has a huge fan base and brings lots of money into the sport and that he was a championship contender and completely killing off his championship hopes early would only detract from the end of season excitement.

michaelm · Oct 23, 2016

AJV80 said:
I'm a Rossi fan/tragic myself so I'm not being biased when i say this, but Rossi carries more weight than anybody in the series and has for a long, long time.

Marquez I thought may have had similar pull after his stellar first two seasons in the sport but Rossi's preferential treatment/light punishment towards the end of last season with his incident with Marquez (who was out of championship contention) it was pretty clear to me as to who had more pull. If another rider had of behaved the way Rossi did I'm sure the penalty would have been much more severe.

I felt the gentle punishment was based on a combination of the fact that he was Rossi and has a huge fan base and brings lots of money into the sport and that he was a championship contender and completely killing off his championship hopes early would only detract fr the end of season excitement.

I think Dorna wanting to keep the title race open was a big factor. They did MM no favours at PI 2013 either, it would have been ridiculous imo if he had crashed in the last round and lost the title on the basis of something devised almost literally 5 minutes before that race. IMO, even though I was going for Jorge.

If there has been a tyre conspiracy in favour of Rossi this year it has been spectacularly unsuccessful, and in fact as many are now noting the Michelin front doesn't seem to work too well with the Yamaha when it is cool.

AJV80 · Oct 23, 2016

michaelm said:
I think Dorna wanting to keep the title race open was a big factor. They did MM no favours at PI 2013 either, it would have been ridiculous imo if he had crashed in the last round and lost the title on the basis of something devised almost literally 5 minutes before that race. IMO, even though I was going for Jorge.

If there has been a tyre conspiracy in favour of Rossi this year it has been spectacularly unsuccessful, and in fact as many are now noting the Michelin front doesn't seem to work too well with the Yamaha when it is cool.

Dont disagree with the tyres, even if Michelin had an intent to favour Rossi's style they are in no position technically to be able to deliver on it.

The tyres this season have been so hard to work out, at first i thought they favoured the Yamaha's but from results of late this doesn't seem to be the case. Maybe in their quest to continuously develop the tyres throughout the season the bikes the tyres have favoured has also been dynamic.

It will be interesting next season to see if they tyres are similar to how they are now or whether they come up with something completely different. At the moment it feels like the tyres seem to suit the Honda's really well but they change so often, that could all change next race.

Motul Grand Prix of Japan 2016 spoilers

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