MotoGP: 2016 Round 12 - Octo British Grand Prix Silverstone Circuit UK (SPOILERS)

Impressive ride by Maverick. Hats off to him. Seems he'll have a lot of confidence coming into next season. It'll be an interesting change in the dynamics if he can consistently mix it up with the lead pack. Another year under his belt, and he'll be on better hardware... Even though it didn't look like that today

povol said:

Prior seasons are not irrelevvant, you think they are because it doesnt fit your fantasy.Go back and look at wet races before the sophisticated ecu's, still overwhelmingly the same winners. You have this fantasy that backmarkers are really as good as the top riders but the numbers foil you at every turn. So Jack Miller won a wet race, do you really think that Marquez would have pulled over and let him go if it meant anything. Crutchlow won a wet race because he was in the position to gamble, nothing less, nothing more. If he had anything to lose he probably doesnt take that gamble.

Click to expand...

Yes they are irrelevant.

You're being dense. When conducting a comparison, all conditions MUST be the same.

Are the conditions of 2016 the same as 2015? Nope.

Are they the same as 2014? Nope.

Repeat back to 2006.

Povol, I get in your fantasy world, all variables are the same, but anyone with a modicum of awareness knows this is not true.

What I find laughable is your ........ claim that backmarkers aren't as good as some of the frontrunners. Certain backmarkers are not good, but others are quite good. You've concocted this imaginary reality where backmarkers can't possibly ever be as talented as anyone towards the front of the grid, even though anyone who has watched racing KNOWS this is not always true. Racing has never been a meritocracy, and there are plenty of riders who through circumstances were not availed the best machinery on the grid for one reason or another. Anyone who still holds onto the belief that racing is a meritocracy, I have beach front property in Arizona to sell you.

MM may have let Miller, go but you also operate under the ASSUMPTION that if he rides at a quicker pace, the results at the front flip-flop to MM P1, JM P2. Who's to say MM doesn't crash out trying to catch Miller? I can start changing outcomes too there if I want to based in order too suit my needs. That is why your belief that if it meant anything the result changes, is complete, utter ......... When you play the what-if-card, infinite possibilities unfold, and unless you have a view into the multiverse, the only outcome that matters is the one we saw happen. Coulda, shoulda, woulda, it all sounds great when you want to debate alternate realities, which isn't what we're debating here.

Also do me a favor, don't pull a "Vudu" here and suddenly claim you know how much effort a rider is actually putting into the race when it is wet.

When a rider such as Lorenzo is riding around at the back of the grid with no mechanical problems, I don't see why questioning his effort is a problem.

paparazzo said:

You mean when he was rammed into by Marquez at the chicane? Don't you have some pubic hair to sweep up after? Keep reaching, I'd be more worry about the decline of rider in your avatar not Vale who's still battling at 37. MM didn't gain a position but emerged with a ridiculous amount more speed and momentum going off the track.

Click to expand...

As far as I am aware he didn't say "that's racing" to anyone though.

Weren't you also one of those (most of your persuasion were universal in doing so) condemning Jorge Lorenzo for questioning the penalty given for a far more serious and deliberately illegal offence which had a far greater effect on a competitor your boy was actually racing for position last year, that competitor not particularly coincidentally being one Marc Marquez.

Iamapony said:

Oh, that. I was there and screaming about the illegal pass. I was in the Corkscrew when Marquez practiced the pass in 2013. Yes, he practiced it. I was in the Corkscrew when he made the pass. Gave me a smug laugh because I knew that RD and VR couldn't say anything. Nice payback for a poor original race direction decision.

Click to expand...

That was more to do with Rossi giving Marquez nowhere to go after he had passed on the outside than Marquez trying a desperate move.

Ironic that only a couple of months back I was calling MotoGP a boring old boys club with the same 3 winners and arguarbly the worst season for some time. Then everyman and his dog starts winning.

Good ride for Alex Lowes today too.

michaelm said:

As far as I am aware he didn't say "that's racing" to anyone though.

Weren't you also one of those (most of your persuasion were universal in doing so) condemning Jorge Lorenzo for questioning the penalty given for a far more serious and deliberately illegal offence which had a far greater effect on a competitor your boy was actually racing for position last year, that competitor not particularly coincidentally being one Marc Marquez.

Click to expand...

I was also the one who unmask you last year for the phony that you are. No need to try and do your fake dance of objectivity.

I was the one condemning Lorenzo for his behavior and comments at the press conference for something he had zero involve in. As for that penalty, it was enough to remove 'my boy' from the championship so you and the haters of your ilk got your wish.Why not just move on and talk about the present, MM took to an escape road and miss entire section of the circuit and emerges at higher speed than riders on track and rejoins with more momentum straight back into where he was. And you tell me there should be no penalty? Not even 2-3 seconds off his final time? Aleix got one for same infraction, why not MM? Go away please, and keep your mask off we all know you are full of it.

paparazzo said:

You mean when he was rammed into by Marquez at the chicane? Don't you have some pubic hair to sweep up after? Keep reaching, I'd be more worry about the decline of rider in your avatar not Vale who's still battling at 37. MM didn't gain a position but emerged with a ridiculous amount more speed and momentum going off the track.

Click to expand...

If you wiped the Rossi .... from your eyelids, you'd know that Shovelhead (among other things) works for Shark Helmets, who provide lids for the reigning World Champ, so it's a company promo pic you prick.

valerian said:

Hi Everyone

What a great weekend of motorcycling racing. What a great season.

Steve the lurker

Click to expand...

Hi Steve! Totally agree, great race and some great riding! Most of all though I'm glad Baz and Espargaro are ok.

povol said:

You have this fantasy that backmarkers are really as good as the top riders but the numbers foil you at every turn. So Jack Miller won a wet race, do you really think that Marquez would have pulled over and let him go if it meant anything. Crutchlow won a wet race because he was in the position to gamble, nothing less, nothing more. If he had anything to lose he probably doesnt take that gamble.

Click to expand...

I know you were replying to JPS with this but MY particular point is not that. I know the likes of Eugene Laverty is not up there with the likes of Lorenzo or Marquez but the fact is the limiting factor for riders like him IS THE BIKE and not the rider. Nothing more, nothing less. Sure, any one of the aliens would be quicker on the GP14.2 than he, but , using your own phrase, do you really think an alien would be in championship contention on that bike?

I'd like to say well done Alex Lowes too, he finished his first race in a reasonable position given his lack of running, and no doubt learned a helluva lot for Misano.

#22 said:

If you wiped the Rossi .... from your eyelids, you'd know that Shovelhead (among other things) works for Shark Helmets, who provide lids for the reigning World Champ, so it's a company promo pic you prick.

Click to expand...

Hiya chief. :spin:

I don't know where anyone here works or why the use their avatar. I thought he runs whorehouse in Nouveau Chine (Vancouver). Either way, I don't care. This forum may be your life but it isn't mine. And I thought you put me on ignore long time ago as you claimed. You just couldn't do it, could you. As usual, you are also full of ....! GTFO of this forum.

paparazzo said:

I was also the one who unmask you last year for the phony that you are. No need to try and do your fake dance of objectivity.

I was the one condemning Lorenzo for his behavior and comments at the press conference for something he had zero involve in. As for that penalty, it was enough to remove 'my boy' from the championship so you and the haters of your ilk got your wish.Why not just move on and talk about the present, MM took to an escape road and miss entire section of the circuit and emerges at higher speed than riders on track and rejoins with more momentum straight back into where he was. And you tell me there should be no penalty? Not even 2-3 seconds off his final time? Aleix got one for same infraction, why not MM? Go away please, and keep your mask off we all know you are full of it.

Click to expand...

I made no comment about whether MM should have gotten a penalty, I could only follow the race on an intermittent feed on my mobile being on a train from Bordeaux to Paris.

My point was Rossi's immense hypocrisy making such a complaint given both Laguna Seca 2008 and that he took MM actually out of a race by a deliberate illegal action which advantaged him points wise in the 2015 championship, and in regard to your hypocritical indignation today given your stance on Lorenzo's criticism of the penalty Rossi received for that incident; how was Rossi affected today pray tell given you argue Lorenzo was not involved or affected in last year's incident?

You unmasked nothing, I have never pretended to be anything but a Stoner fan and previous fan of Dophan and the "golden era" 500 riders, none of whom were called Valentino Rossi, and a latter-day Lorenzo fan. I continue to respect Rossi's great past riding achievements and to give him full credit for all his achievements. I make no bones about no longer respecting him personally, his stupid and self serving conspiracy theory and overt involvement in campaigns of vilification against rivals ended that for me, with Lorenzo being forced out of Yamaha very much the last straw.

If the reports surrounding this week-end are correct, he is back to the whining petulant ways which have characterised his latter/recent career. Perhaps having realised MM is fairly likely to deprive him of a championship this year; 3 point increments won't cut it is one thing that's for sure.

Did anyone out there have any problems with the feed from motogp.com for this race?,i don't usually have issues but it played up all weekend for me and i don't know if it was them or my connection?,i was watching the no spoiler for the gp and 6 laps from the end everything froze for the umpteenth time, and when i reloaded it i went too far and got Vinales waving to everyone on his ....... victory lap!, totally ruined the end of a great race and I almost smashed my laptop.

#22 said:

I know you were replying to JPS with this but MY particular point is not that. I know the likes of Eugene Laverty is not up there with the likes of Lorenzo or Marquez but the fact is the limiting factor for riders like him IS THE BIKE and not the rider. Nothing more, nothing less. Sure, any one of the aliens would be quicker on the GP14.2 than he, but , using your own phrase, do you really think an alien would be in championship contention on that bike?

I'd like to say well done Alex Lowes too, he finished his first race in a reasonable position given his lack of running, and no doubt learned a helluva lot for Misano.

Click to expand...

The thing I have said repeatedly is that Marc Marquez is the only guy who currently rides that I am close to calling an alien rider. While not every satellite rider would see success, there are a few who would be right up at the front if given factory rides. Laverty on the GP16 with factory support would be challenging for race wins.

paparazzo said:

Hiya chief. :spin:

I don't know where anyone here works or why the use their avatar. I thought he runs whorehouse in Nouveau Chine (Vancouver). Either way, I don't care. This forum may be your life but it isn't mine. And I thought you put me on ignore long time ago as you claimed. You just couldn't do it, could you. As usual, you are also full of ....! GTFO of this forum.

Click to expand...

I did block you, then realised I took amusement from your pathetic posts

FYI, I just took a dump so am no longer full of ..... You on the other hand....

#22 said:

If you wiped the Rossi .... from your eyelids, you'd know that Shovelhead (among other things) works for Shark Helmets, who provide lids for the reigning World Champ, so it's a company promo pic you prick.



Hi Steve! Totally agree, great race and some great riding! Most of all though I'm glad Baz and Espargaro are ok.



I know you were replying to JPS with this but MY particular point is not that. I know the likes of Eugene Laverty is not up there with the likes of Lorenzo or Marquez but the fact is the limiting factor for riders like him IS THE BIKE and not the rider. Nothing more, nothing less. Sure, any one of the aliens would be quicker on the GP14.2 than he, but , using your own phrase, do you really think an alien would be in championship contention on that bike?

I'd like to say well done Alex Lowes too, he finished his first race in a reasonable position given his lack of running, and no doubt learned a helluva lot for Misano.

Click to expand...

Did i say he would be a contender on the Duc 14.2, no, i did not. What im saying is, Laverty or any of the other backmarkers would not be a contender no matter what bike you stuck them on. This fallacy that JP is pushing is comical, its like he thinks that Honda, Yamaha, Ducati just pick their favorite rider to pay millions of dollars a year just because. You would think if these guys in the back were that good, that CEO's of multi billion dollar companies would notice and offer them 1 million to ride their machines instead of paying some other guy 10 million Growing up in sports, there is one incontrovertible truth i learned. Guys who whine about the world not being fair and the superstars are no better than benchwarmers, backmarkers etc etc, never competed, or tried to compete, didnt make the team and blamed everyone and everything but himself for the failure. There are superstars in every sport and make no mistake, they are not just a little better, they are a bunch better.

povol said:

Did i say he would be a contender on the Duc 14.2, no, i did not. What im saying is, Laverty or any of the other backmarkers would not be a contender no matter what bike you stuck them on. This fallacy that JP is pushing is comical, its like he thinks that Honda, Yamaha, Ducati just pick their favorite rider to pay millions of dollars a year just because. You would think if these guys in the back were that good, that CEO's of multi billion dollar companies would notice and offer them 1 million to ride their machines instead of paying some other guy 10 million Growing up in sports, there is one incontrovertible truth i learned. Guys who whine about the world not being fair and the superstars are no better than benchwarmers, backmarkers etc etc, never competed, or tried to compete, didnt make the team and blamed everyone and everything but himself for the failure. There are superstars in every sport and make no mistake, they are not just a little better, they are a bunch better.

Click to expand...

Simple question for you povol, what choice was Stoner as Ducati's rider for 2007? A guy who was a once in a lifetime talent only lucked out in getting a factory ride because others turned it down. Get a clue already. Oh and let's not forget the race win bonus Colin Stoner negotiated with Ducati because they didn't think he would be able to cash on it.

The only fallacy here is you still not understanding the point I'm making that talent doesn't just reside at the front of the grid as you think it goes in your myopic worldview. Nice straw man by the way since I never said they picked based on their favorite rider. And you blab about fallacies when committing one. Hilarious.

I'm going to be completely honest with you as only I can. The last paragraph shows how little you really know about professional sports and what goes on behind the scenes of some of them. Growing up in sports? Don't make me laugh. I have friends who were pros that appeared on TV in the sports they played. You only see part of the game on TV. One was leading a tournament when the playing field was altered overnight to take him out of contention. At a certain level the talent disparity is not as much as you'd like to imagine it is.

JPSLotus said:

Simple question for you povol, what choice was Stoner as Ducati's rider for 2007? A guy who was a once in a lifetime talent only lucked out in getting a factory ride because others turned it down. Get a clue already. Oh and let's not forget the race win bonus Colin Stoner negotiated with Ducati because they didn't think he would be able to cash on it.

The only fallacy here is you still not understanding the point I'm making that talent doesn't just reside at the front of the grid as you think it goes in your myopic worldview. Nice straw man by the way since I never said they picked based on their favorite rider. And you blab about fallacies when committing one. Hilarious.

I'm going to be completely honest with you as only I can. The last paragraph shows how little you really know about professional sports and what goes on behind the scenes of some of them. Growing up in sports? Don't make me laugh. I have friends who were pros that appeared on TV in the sports they played. You only see part of the game on TV. One was leading a tournament when the playing field was altered overnight to take him out of contention. At a certain level the talent disparity is not as much as you'd like to imagine it is.

Click to expand...

When was Casey Stoner a backmarker.

Wow, what a race. To think I was worried about staying up extra late with work the next day for a dull race. I didn't expect to see Maverick do a Lorenzo by going so hard from the get go and build a nice buffer to control his lead. We know the last win by a Suzuki was Vermuelen in the wet '07 but when was the last time Suzuki won in the dry? Kenny Roberts? This will no doubt give Maverick and Suzuki a nice boost of confidence.

The Burning Barber said:

Wow, what a race. To think I was worried about staying up extra late with work the next day for a dull race. I didn't expect to see Maverick do a Lorenzo by going so hard from the get go and build a nice buffer to control his lead. We know the last win by a Suzuki was Vermuelen in the wet '07 but when was the last time Suzuki won in the dry? Kenny Roberts? This will no doubt give Maverick and Suzuki a nice boost of confidence.

Click to expand...

Kenny Roberts Jnr. at Motegi. Remember it well. Can't believe how quickly time has gone. Sete won at Valencia in 2001 but that was on a drying track. I remember him dedicating his win to the victims of 9/11 planting an American flag in the gravel trap.

The Burning Barber said:

Wow, what a race. To think I was worried about staying up extra late with work the next day for a dull race. I didn't expect to see Maverick do a Lorenzo by going so hard from the get go and build a nice buffer to control his lead. We know the last win by a Suzuki was Vermuelen in the wet '07 but when was the last time Suzuki won in the dry? Kenny Roberts? This will no doubt give Maverick and Suzuki a nice boost of confidence.

Click to expand...

Last win in dry conditions for Suzuki was way back in 2001 Sete Gibernau at Valencia on the v4 500 2t.

Daniboy said:

Last win in dry conditions for Suzuki was way back in 2001 Sete Gibernau at Valencia on the v4 500 2t.

Click to expand...

But it wasn't - you're wrong. See previous post. Valencia 2001 was a wet race following a rain shower which resulted in several crashes on the warm up lap. Checa was one of them who having trashed his bike jumped on his No.2 also shod with slicks front and rear. Max, as a a championship contender, was more cautious than his teammate with an intermediate front. Gibernau also gambled on slick tyres front and rear on a surface like ice. Given the damp conditions the usual suspects were up front - Barros and KRjnr but Sete took the win as the track dried while Checa riding a heroic race just missed out on a podium. I think Max beat Vale who were something like tenth and eleventh respectfully. Rossi may well have been on full wets or inters front and rear.

The 125 race that year was a ....... belter - an absolute classic which I still have on VHS video somewhere. It culminated in Moody emotionally spewing 'and if that didn't move you...then you have no soul'