MotoGP: 2016 Round 12 - Octo British Grand Prix Silverstone Circuit UK (SPOILERS)

michaelm · Sep 5, 2016

moto vudu said:
Riight, Rossi was pre-planning getting hit by Marc just so he could cut across the gravel.

You can read then.

I think that is exactly what happened. Rossi had MM on the day, that was the only place MM had any chance of getting him on the last lap. No way was MM making that corner at that pace and his move would have involved using Rossi as a berm, Rossi knew it was coming and was ready to respond; the contact was hence lighter than it might have been had he been taken by surprise. Rossi was entirely in the right imo on that occasion btw.

moto vudu · Sep 5, 2016

Rossi probably did suspect MM would attempt a pass in the last chicane, but I doubt he planned on contact. He didn't need an escape plan, the contact forced him to stand the bike up. There was no way he could've continued on his original racing line since Marc's out of control bike occupied that line.

michaelm · Sep 5, 2016

moto vudu said:
Rossi probably did suspect MM would attempt a pass in the last chicane, but I doubt he planned on contact. He didn't need an escape plan, the contact forced him to stand the bike up. There was no way he could've continued on his original racing line since Marc's out of control bike occupied that line.

Again we agree. As I said I think he was ready for what I have also already said was an out of control move from Marc. Of course he wouldn't have gone off track had it not been necessary, but he was imo ready to go if MM pulled the move, and seemed to anticipate the contact. Kudos to him in that particular incident.

JPSLotus · Sep 5, 2016

moto vudu said:
Rossi probably did suspect MM would attempt a pass in the last chicane, but I doubt he planned on contact. He didn't need an escape plan, the contact forced him to stand the bike up. There was no way he could've continued on his original racing line since Marc's out of control bike occupied that line.

It was pre-planned.

The contact was incidental, and something you see quite often in GP. His reaction to ride straight over the gravel was nothing more than theatrics. You see this kind of contact in Moto3 races as well and it unfolds without riders cutting the corner.

What MM did was a squeeze move we see dozens of times over the course of a season that was intended to stand Rossi up, only he wasn't expecting Rossi to cut the corner in response. Any other rider would have stayed on the track rather than cut the corner. I'd also say most any other rider would have had a greater chance of being penalized for the corner cut.

It is what it is, but the minimal lack of contact would indicate Rossi planned to go straight if he felt anything in the way of contact.

moto vudu · Sep 5, 2016

JPSLotus said:
It was pre-planned.

The contact was incidental, and something you see quite often in GP. His reaction to ride straight over the gravel was nothing more than theatrics. You see this kind of contact in Moto3 races as well and it unfolds without riders cutting the corner.

What MM did was a squeeze move we see dozens of times over the course of a season that was intended to stand Rossi up, only he wasn't expecting Rossi to cut the corner in response. Any other rider would have stayed on the track rather than cut the corner. I'd also say most any other rider would have had a greater chance of being penalized for the corner cut.

It is what it is, but the minimal lack of contact would indicate Rossi planned to go straight if he felt anything in the way of contact.

It wasn't minimal contact, it was hard enough to cause Rossi's front end momentarily tuck. Marc didn't do any "squeeze move", he was out-of-control and wasn't going to make that corner himself. That's not a racing move.

Had Rossi not stood his bike up, he would've crashed with Marc... two objects can't occupy the same space at the same time. I guess you think Rossi should've just stood his bike up, then braked into the gravel trap and sit there.

JPSLotus · Sep 5, 2016

moto vudu said:
It wasn't minimal contact, it was hard enough to cause Rossi's front end momentarily tuck. Marc didn't do any "squeeze move", he was out-of-control and wasn't going to make that corner himself. That's not a racing move.

Had Rossi not stood his bike up, he would've crashed with Marc... two objects can't occupy the same space at the same time. I guess you think Rossi should've just stood his bike up, then braked into the gravel trap and sat there.

The only contact made was the outside of Rossi's elbow/forearm with MM's tire.

Rossi started accelerating to go straight as soon as the contact was made. Contrast it with Nicky Hayden in 2006 who coasted across the gravel. The quick acceleration is why I say the entire thing was pre-planned. Nothing wrong with that, but it's laughable especially when one considers how bent out of shape the boppers got yesterday over MM running wide before Becketts when no advantage was obtained.

And yes, it was a squeeze move attempt. I never said it was a good squeeze attempt. But it certainly wasn't any worse than Colin Edwards swinging left trying to run Hayden wide to protect the inside line before high-siding in 2006. Try watching racing some time.

moto vudu · Sep 5, 2016

JPSLotus said:
The only contact made was the outside of Rossi's elbow/forearm with MM's tire.

Rossi started accelerating to go straight as soon as the contact was made. Contrast it with Nicky Hayden in 2006 who coasted across the gravel. The quick acceleration is why I say the entire thing was pre-planned. Nothing wrong with that, but it's laughable especially when one considers how bent out of shape the boppers got yesterday over MM running wide before Becketts when no advantage was obtained.

And yes, it was a squeeze move attempt. I never said it was a good squeeze attempt. But it certainly wasn't any worse than Colin Edwards swinging left trying to run Hayden wide to protect the inside line before high-siding in 2006. Try watching racing some time.

No one made contact with MM forcing him to run off before Becketts. You say no advantage was obtained, but he cut a corner and rejoined the track in front of two riders that properly negotiated it. That's an advantage.

povol · Sep 5, 2016

moto vudu said:
No one made contact with MM forcing him to run off before Becketts. You say no advantage was obtained, but he cut a corner and rejoined the track in front of two riders that properly negotiated it. That's an advantage.

Again, it's the rule. If it wasn't paved or the rule was different, he doesn't make the attempt. Since it is paved and the rule is what it is, it promotes riders to take chances.

michaelm · Sep 6, 2016

moto vudu said:
No one made contact with MM forcing him to run off before Becketts. You say no advantage was obtained, but he cut a corner and rejoined the track in front of two riders that properly negotiated it. That's an advantage.

Unless those riders were about to pass him or trying to pass him, as was the case with Stoner at the Corkscrew at Laguna Seca 2008 btw, I don't think he has to give any places back under the current rules. What was the situation with the riders given time penalties in the earlier races? Did they deliberately cut the corner rather than have loses?

I didn't have any problem with Assen 2015 which wasn't an analogous situation from what I can gather, but it is rather rich for Rossi or his fans to complain about the current matter given he was acclaimed by you guys for keeping ahead in that manner at the Corkscrew, saying "that's racing" himself, and the fuss which was made about Lorenzo making a comment about a penalty last year.

HelloMars · Sep 6, 2016

moto vudu said:
Rossi probably did suspect MM would attempt a pass in the last chicane, but I doubt he planned on contact. He didn't need an escape plan, the contact forced him to stand the bike up. There was no way he could've continued on his original racing line since Marc's out of control bike occupied that line.

in my amateur vision as racing fans, its called block pass.

there are two options for rider on the front:
-1 avoid contact when passed
-2 just go with it, and made a contact

most of the rider when block passed, choose the first opt.
not for Rossi, in the last chicane on the last lap.

moto vudu · Sep 6, 2016

HelloMars said:
in my amateur vision as racing fans, its called block pass.

there are two options for rider on the front:
-1 avoid contact when passed
-2 just go with it, and made a contact

most of the rider when block passed, choose the first opt.
not for Rossi, in the last chicane on the last lap.

You're right, MM was attempting a block pass. However, it was MM's responsibility to safely execute the pass and avoid contact with Rossi. The lead rider has preference to choose their line through a corner, Rossi did nothing wrong when he attempted to hit the first apex to make sure he was in good position for the 2nd half of the chicane.

Bottomline is MM screwed up his pass attempt. It was a pure racing incident, but people keep blaming Rossi for cutting the track (even though Marc also failed to stay within track limits). Rossi could either accelerate into the gravel or coast into the gravel, but Marc forced him to stand the bike up.

michaelm · Sep 6, 2016

moto vudu said:
You're right, MM was attempting a block pass. However, it was MM's responsibility to safely execute the pass and avoid contact with Rossi. The lead rider has preference to choose their line through a corner, Rossi did nothing wrong when he attempted to hit the first apex to make sure he was in good position for the 2nd half of the chicane.

Bottomline is MM screwed up his pass attempt. It was a pure racing incident, but people keep blaming Rossi for cutting the track (even though Marc also failed to stay within track limits). Rossi could either accelerate into the gravel or coast into the gravel, but Marc forced him to stand the bike up.

Anyone attaching any blame to Rossi over the Assen incident is clearly wrong.

Doesn't mean Rossi's complaint about the incident in the recent race wasn't petulant whinging; it was at the very least hypocritical given his own role in past incidents other than Assen as has been said.

Motokitty · Sep 6, 2016

Xavi Forés is gonna ride Baz's bike for misano.

Iamapony · Sep 6, 2016

michaelm said:
No doubt Rossi is still riding awesomely. He is still nearly as fast as MM who may end up challenging him for GOAThood is at 23. It is the stuff which surrounds him and his use of it against his competitors to which I object.

Slight edit and agreement. I like this place because there is very little glossing over of the riders', including Rossi's, shenanigans.

povol said:
Again, it's the rule. If it wasn't paved or the rule was different, he doesn't make the attempt. Since it is paved and the rule is what it is, it promotes riders to take chances.

It is like this in most racing. If you don't gain an advantage, it is okay. MM entered the track in the same position where he left the track. Most of the time leaving the track does not work that well. But the rule is simple and fair to everyone.

Compared to several auto racing series, MotoGP is pretty tough. There are cars virtual ignoring chicanes and practically hitting the grandstands when they intentionally take the extra asphalt outside the actual track.

Motokitty said:
Xavi Forés is gonna ride Baz's bike for misano.

I guess he can speak Ducati.

lil red rocket pilot · Sep 6, 2016

shovelhead said:
Alright Alright Alright...

First if you don't know the difference between a Lifestyle club and Brothel, you are even less educated than I thought.

Yes... I am sadden that Lorenzo can't come to grip with the Michelins.

Rossi's punishment is Valencia was nothing, starting from the back and have everybody admit that they moved aside to let him thru... pfff , in the end, the reality is that no matter where Rossi started in Valencia... the best he could have done is 4th which is what he did. Unlike Marquez who started from the back and won that moto2 race, now that's something to be proud of.

A real punishment would have been what Zarco got this weekend, a 30 seconds ding. Now that would have been more appropriate last year in Sepang, but that would have been too harsh because Rossi championship hopes would have been mathematically out of reach.

I am a fan of racing... not a one racer fan/groupie, but a true racing fan.

Having said that.... The only person that put excitement in that race was Marquez, this guy is entertaining... and skillful.

In the end, at his age, Rossi is still doing awesome.
Rossi is undeniably the GOAT.

Awesome post Shovel!
Agree totally
Would love to hear your take on the Zarco move, wassap it if you have time.
Cheers BTW, it's beautiful

mark419ny · Sep 6, 2016

anyone notice the announcers saying that Rossi won the battle with marquez at the end of the race lol? marquez disposed of rossi and was battling crutchlow. he made a mistake vs crutchlow while battling for second which mm didnt even need to do point wise. yes rossi finished ahead of mm but it had nothing to do with rossi's ridding. if mm stayed put rossi would have been 4th. these announcers are a joke.

gekko1ro · Sep 6, 2016

yeah, i think they said something like "marquez came out with a bleeding nose from today battles"

p4p1 · Sep 6, 2016

Yep I found it cringeworthy as well.

JPSLotus · Sep 6, 2016

The piped in cheering was noticeable during the broadcast. I remember when the Atlanta Falcons got fined for piping in artificial crowd noise at their home games lol. Guess Dorna can't fine themselves.

Dr No · Sep 7, 2016

I'm fortunate. My feed is from Taiwan. I get to gloss over the ...... commentary.
That ..... like bloody nose is pathetic.

MotoGP: 2016 Round 12 - Octo British Grand Prix Silverstone Circuit UK (SPOILERS)

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