MotoGP: 2015 Round 17 - Shell Malaysia Motorcycle Grand Prix (SPOILERS)

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moto vudu said:
So now Rossi has Magic Johnson "no-look" passing talent as well? People really love to give Rossi extra talents just to claim he was able to kick Marc off his motorcycle.
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Are you seriously trying to say Rossi...or anybody else for that matter...cannot walk and chew gum at the same time? Are you seriously trying to say it takes superhuman ability to flick your knee out without looking when you know and can feel and hear something next to you?
 
#22 said:
Again you are missing the point. It really is irrelevant if Rossi kicked or Marquez touched his leg with his brake lever. Rossi intently pushed another competing rider to the edge of the circuit and as a result, they made contact. That is irresponsible riding at best, and dangerous at worst.
Now, if you do want to debate the 'kick', it's interesting to watch that video you posted at 0.25 speed. It looks initially as though Marquez' helmet touches Rossi's leg, at which point you can clearly see Rossi's leg open outward are upward.

View attachment 14657

Whether it was intentional to knock Marquez off is irrelevant. That action, combined with forcing him to the edge of the track, caused another rider to crash.


Riders get penalised for accidents all the time. If the criteria was "did they mean to do it?' then we would get a lot less penalties. It's the difference between murder and manslaugher. If I run you over in my car by accident, I'm still going to prison for Manslaughter. I just won't go to prison for as long as Murder if it were intentional.
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Forcing a rider to the edge of the track is punishable but in that instance it wasn't a big deal because they both had to slow down so much a crash was NOT forced. Marc understandably wanted to get by Rossi and was tired of waiting but he turned into Rossi's bike. I hold Rossi responsible for that, BUT Rossi did NOT force Marc to turn into him. Had Marc judged a bit better and waited .5 seconds he never would've hit Rossi's bike and there wouldn't have been a crash (at least not at that corner, but they probably would've kept up the battle until something happened).

A still picture doesn't show anything clearly, watching the video shows Rossi leg was stationary on the peg until you see Marc's bike lean further to the right making contact with Rossi's bike.
 
PRS717 said:
Are you seriously trying to say Rossi...or anybody else for that matter...cannot walk and chew gum at the same time? Are you seriously trying to say it takes superhuman ability to flick your knee out without looking when you know and can feel something next to you?
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You will never and I mean never, ride a sportbike, accelerate, and be able to kick another rider off their bike. I imagine you could walk and chew gum at the same time if you concentrate more than you are in this thread.
 
moto vudu said:
You will never and I mean never, ride a sportbike, accelerate, and be able to kick another rider off their bike. I imagine you could walk and chew gum at the same time if you concentrate more than you are in this thread.
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I've ridden enough sport bike to know flicking your knee out is not difficult. Rossi purposely slowed down, was not at any appreciable lean angle and had the presence of mind to twice look for Marc. To be honest and fair to Rossi, I cannot say his intent was to make Marc crash but he did crash and as I said before, Rossi went unnecessary meters out of his way to initiate. Had Rossi stayed on line instead of slowing and purposely running wide, we would not be having this discussion.
 
PRS717 said:
I've ridden enough sport bike to know flicking your knee out is not difficult. Rossi purposely slowed down, was not at any appreciable lean angle and had the presence of mind to twice look for Marc. To be honest and fair to Rossi, I cannot say his intent was to make Marc crash but he did crash and as I said before, Rossi went unnecessary meters out of his way to initiate. Had Rossi stayed on line instead of slowing and purposely running wide, we would not be having this discussion.
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How many years of riding sportbikes did it take you gain the ability to blast another rider off their bike with a simple flick of your knee?
 
Here we go again. ....... Nicnac. As 22 pointed out the race line is on the curb in that corner. What Rossi did is wasn't just run him wide, he ran him off the track. Marc had to turn in when he did or run complete off track and miss the corner. This behavior by Rossi is unacceptable and deserved a much stiffer penalty than he got. He most likely didn't mean to knee Marcs bars causing the crash but it was still his behavior that caused it. No matter what went on before that there is no excuse for that behavior and deserved a black flag and most likely a suspension. Racing hard is much different than letting the red mist take over and doing what he did.
 
moto vudu said:
Forcing a rider to the edge of the track is punishable but in that instance it wasn't a big deal because they both had to slow down so much a crash was NOT forced. Marc understandably wanted to get by Rossi and was tired of waiting but he turned into Rossi's bike. I hold Rossi responsible for that, BUT Rossi did NOT force Marc to turn into him. Had Marc judged a bit better and waited .5 seconds he never would've hit Rossi's bike and there wouldn't have been a crash (at least not at that corner, but they probably would've kept up the battle until something happened).

A still picture doesn't show anything clearly, watching the video shows Rossi leg was stationary on the peg until you see Marc's bike lean further to the right making contact with Rossi's bike.
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Race direction disagree with you. Again:

FIM Road Racing World Championship Grand Prix
Shell Malaysia Motorcycle Grand Prix – Decision of the Race Direction
On 25th October 2015 during the MotoGP race of the Shell Malaysia Motorcycle Grand Prix, rider #46 Valentino Rossi deliberately ran wide on Turn 14 in order to force another rider off line, resulting in contact causing the other rider to crash.
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MdubSTYLIE said:
Here we go again. ....... Nicnac. As 22 pointed out the race line is on the curb in that corner. What Rossi did is wasn't just run him wide, he ran him off the track. Marc had to turn in when he did or run complete off track and miss the corner. This behavior by Rossi is unacceptable and deserved a much stiffer penalty than he got. He most likely didn't mean to knee Marcs bars causing the crash but it was still his behavior that caused it. No matter what went on before that there is no excuse for that behavior and deserved a black flag and most likely a suspension. Racing hard is much different than letting the red mist take over and doing what he did.
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The racing line doesn't apply when Rossi's non-racing maneuver caused them to slow down so much. Marc would not have completely run off track if he didn't turn in exactly at that moment, he was not moving fast enough. I agree Rossi was at fault, I just look at the situation realistically instead of trying to embellish it with tales of kicks and knee flicks that send other riders flying.
 
moto vudu said:
The racing line doesn't apply when Rossi's non-racing maneuver caused them to slow down so much. Marc would not have completely run off track if he didn't turn in exactly at that moment, he was not moving fast enough. I agree Rossi was at fault, I just look at the situation realistically instead of trying to embellish it with tales of kicks and knee flicks that send other riders flying.
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Thats the problem there is no place for a non-racing maneuver on track. The only thing I disagree about is Marc had room. That corner tightens at its end. If Marc didn't turn in when he did he would have ran off track. I do agree that it that it wasnt a kick but it was a knee flick at a moment when Marcs bike was leaning and it caught the bars sending the bike to the ground. I believe it is very possible that the knee flick was instinctual because of the closing space. Still 100% Rossi's fault.
 
MdubSTYLIE said:
Thats the problem there is no place for a non-racing maneuver on track. The only thing I disagree about is Marc had room. That corner tightens at its end. If Marc didn't turn in when he did he would have ran off track. I do agree that it that it wasnt a kick but it was a knee flick at a moment when Marcs bike was leaning and it caught the bars sending the bike to the ground. I believe it is very possible that the knee flick was instinctual because of the closing space. Still 100% Rossi's fault.
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If you're driving slowly around a race track, you can turn much tighter in a corner than would be possible at racing speed. They were both at such a low speed, they had the ability to square off the corner. You seam fairly reasonable, how strong do you think Rossi's abductor muscles are to flick his knee outward with enough force to cause another motorcycle to crash? Compare that scenario with one rider leaning and turning their bike into another. Which is more realistic in causing a crash?
 
moto vudu said:
If you're driving slowly around a race track, you can turn much tighter in a corner than would be possible at racing speed. They were both at such a low speed, they had the ability to square off the corner. You seam fairly reasonable, how strong do you think Rossi's abductor muscles are to flick his knee outward with enough force to cause another motorcycle to crash? Compare that scenario with one rider leaning and turning their bike into another. Which is more realistic in causing a crash?
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Thats not true. Once you are going slowly you cannot lean a bike over without it falling. The reason you can hang of a bike is because of speed. Once a bike is going slow it becomes tippy. You can't exactly steer a sport bike with the handle bars. The amount of lean needed to turn is relative to the speed you are going. Once you are going to slow it is easier to tip.
 
MdubSTYLIE said:
Thats not true. Once you are going slowly you cannot lean a bike over without it falling. The reason you can hang of a bike is because of speed. Once a bike is going slow it becomes tippy. You can't exactly steer a sport bike with the handle bars. The amount of lean needed to turn is relative to the speed you are going. Once you are going to slow it is easier to tip.
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It's absolutely possible to lean a bike at low speed without falling, stunt riders do it all the time. But again, Rossi and Marc slowed down so much they were able to go deeper into the corner and then make a tight turn that would've been impossible at race pace. My point is simply that because of their reduced speed Marc didn't actually have to turn exactly when he did but it wasn't his fault for being in that situation. It's still Rossi's fault for the non-racing maneuver.
 
It wouldn't take that much pressure from a knee to turn the bars causing the front to tuck. Especially at a slower speed. At a faster speed it would cause speed wobbling tank slappers. But at a slow speed it will tuck the front. Something you could do with you arms. A well placed knee could easily wash the front which it did here. Again I say I don't believe that was Rossi's intent but it is still what happened. How else do you think Marc went down exactly?
 
moto vudu said:
It's absolutely possible to lean a bike at low speed without falling, stunt riders do it all the time. But again, Rossi and Marc slowed down so much they were able to go deeper into the corner and then make a tight turn that would've been impossible at race pace. My point is simply that because of their reduced speed Marc didn't actually have to turn exactly when he did but it wasn't his fault for being in that situation. It's still Rossi's fault for the non-racing maneuver.
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Stunt bikes? These aren't stunt bikes. Those guys put cages on their bike because of how many times they drop it trying to understand the slowest speed and turning they can. And how do they pick the bike up? By accelerating it.
 

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