MotoGP: 2015 Round 17 - Shell Malaysia Motorcycle Grand Prix (SPOILERS)

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JPSLotus said:
No one fights like this for 3rd place that early in the race?

BULL ....... .....

Did you not watch Phillip Island last weekend?

It was a fight tooth and nail for P1 thru P4 the entire race.
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and allready there marquez actions seemed weird (i allready said that during the race back than, the journalists - german ones, particularly alex hofmann, a former motogp pilot - too said, during the race in australia, he doesnt quite undestand whats going on with marquez (or his bike), because his pace changed in a very weird way.

looking back, it just was´nt as blatantly obvious what his (marquez) intention was, purely because ianone was in there, too.

but i´m out of this. this thing isn´t about the written rules, it´s about the unwritten laws/codex between riders that marquez did clearly not respect and break. rossi showed him this in a way that brakes the written rules...so yes, the blame and guilt - just for this one incident, is on him.
 
MdubSTYLIE said:
Can't we all just agree that Rossi had a little Casey Stoner moment nothing more. Now lets move on. Its going to rain in Valencia.

Moto vudu. Casey Stoner is a racer who retired a few years ago after a short but vibrant career. I know you don't like to do research so I figured I help you out.
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I can't stop laughing at this. Rossi went all Casey Stoner. Hahaha AH, the IRONY!

Can we also say Marc went all Rossi on Rossi.


Hahaha, I'm dying here. Brilliant stuff all around.
 
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gwudi said:
and allready there marquez actions seemed weird (i allready said that during the race back than, the journalists - german ones, particularly alex hofmann, a former motogp pilot - too said, during the race in australia, he doesnt quite undestand whats going on with marquez (or his bike), because his pace changed in a very weird way.

looking back, it just was´nt as blatantly obvious what his (marquez) intention was, purely because ianone was in there, too.

but i´m out of this. this thing isn´t about the written rules, it´s about the unwritten laws/codex between riders that marquez did clearly not respect and break. rossi showed him this in a way that brakes the written rules...so yes, the blame and guilt - just for this one incident, is on him.
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Citing Alex Hoffman, who actually gave up in a motogp race iiirc, is stretching things.
 
Jumkie said:
Your entire premise is based on a flawed assumption. Marquez ran his race and conducted it to extract the best result. At the stage where his pace matched a rival on the field (happens routinely) the two riders fight for position. Your assumption is that this fighting occurred as a reflection of Rossi's slanderous accusations. I think HRC believe Marc was conducting his race normally, frankly, you should too.

The point that has been difficult for you and Rossi fans to make is that when two riders find themselves matching each other's pace, that therefore the "suspect " rider should pull over and follow. You think you know who is the "suspect" rider.

If I accuse you of being a pervert, should you be allowed around women?
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Mate, you can't portray your opinion as an undisputed fact. Perhaps MM was running his own race, as you suggest, but I think it's quite misleading to suggest that reasonable minds cannot differ on this point. For example, racers of the calibre of Ben Spies have quite clearly suggested that MM was slowing intentionally - this is Ben Spies' twitter:

"If people can't understand that @marcmarquez93 was faster at PI and sepang than @ValeYellow46 their crazy!"

Brookes, Laverty and Pitt made similar observations.

It still doesn't justify Vale's stupid manoeuvre. Once you descend to those tactics, the usual consequence is further escalation and a crash for one or both riders.
 
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Jumkie said:
Your entire premise is based on a flawed assumption. Marquez ran his race and conducted it to extract the best result. At the stage where his pace matched a rival on the field (happens routinely) the two riders fight for position. Your assumption is that this fighting occurred as a reflection of Rossi's slanderous accusations. I think HRC believe Marc was conducting his race normally, frankly, you should too.

The point that has been difficult for you and Rossi fans to make is that when two riders find themselves matching each other's pace, that therefore the "suspect " rider should pull over and follow. You think you know who is the "suspect" rider.

If I accuse you of being a pervert, should you be allowed around women?
Click to expand...


Jums, firstly and with no offence intended, I have my eyes, my mind to make up my decision and have done so quite clearly.

Evidence does indeed suggest that MM may well have been trying to 'play' with Rossi as that same evidence would seem to indicate that MM may well have been very capable of maintaining a faster race pace but for reasons known to himself, was unable to do so.

Now as I do not tell you what to do I would appreciate a likewise courtesy as I am happy to accept that you have your view and I mine, just as I accept your view you choose or seemingly choose to tell me I am wrong. I will not extend the same level of discourtesy to you by saying you are wrong.

Further you seem to have decided that I advocate a rider pulling over and allowing another past but may I suggest or ask that you re-read ALL of my posts in this thread and you will not see that anywhere.

You have your view, I have mind and we are both entitled to it and so that is how it shall be.

No, were I a pervert it is up to the women as to whether I should be around for what you may call a pervert, those self same women may not.
 
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It is obvious that those who now ask for Rossi's public execution would instead scream against Marquez' dirty tactics if, in the same circumstances, Lorenzo had been in Rossi's place. Jum's screams against Dorna using Marquez to slow down Lorenzo and make sure Rossi wins the title would be deafening -- just as they are now, or more...! :)

May I point out again that race direction, as Mike Webb himself is on record stating, concluded that Marquez was in fact putting up a stiff fight with Rossi only to slow him down? This kind of race behavior is not punishable under the rules, even as blatant as it was at Sepang, -- but there is no denying it.

The indignation at the "unprecedented" criminal behavior by racer VR46 sounds dramatic indeed but, as a matter o fact, riders getting exasperated at other riders who were deliberately slowing them down (which is very different from genuinely fighting to finish the race in the best position you can) is by no way unprecedented. Some memorable episodes were never even sanctioned, like this one for example:

Spaan punching Gresini's head (who was slowing him down to help Capirossi), Australia 1990, 125cc :

 
Jesus, I've spend nearly an hour just reading what happened between my going to bed and waking up. How do some of you Rossi Boppers find time to write so much?!

Mais8 said:
Wow, you are a real man!
If i were you i wld spend that time to learn good manners, leave thst go pro at home for a weekend. Yeah, the go pro to see yourself on track...that speaks volumes about the type of rider you are.

Good luck gentleman!
Click to expand...

One that's faster than you, big mouth :)

JPSLotus said:
I wanted to expound upon something Arrab said much, much earlier regarding precedent set by what happened today, and how that impacts the future of motor racing.

Stuff

Dangerous precedent.
Click to expand...

Excellent post JPS. I grew up with this issue, especially Schumacher. The amount of times in drivers briefing fellow young drivers (kids) argued with the CoC over use of kerbs or similar, then ended up in race direction for barging someone off or soing something else, and their defence was always "Well they do it in F1!" or "Michael Schumacher gets away with it"...go to a club or even regional/national short circuit kart event today...it's like a millionaires demo derby.

Frack said:
I haven't read the boards yet. Why bother. It looks like 100 pages of excuses.
I said this would be the biggest choke job in the history of GP racing and it sure was.
Click to expand...

Agreed, and yes Rossi made the mistake of picking a fight with someone with nothing to lose. Marquez may have lost a 3/4th place that he wasn't interested in anyway, but Rossi has lost respect and potentially a championship.
 
Gaz said:
Just to take a tangent from Birdy a little here but I wonder what Honda/HRC think of Marquez not concentrating solely on his race and therefore possibly not producing the best result for Honda/HRC.

We have our own opinions on a number of things but there are some aspects (such as that raised by Birdy) that may have escaped the thought so I would genuinely be interested in Honda/HRC thoughts on MM

Likewise I would be interested in what Yamaha think of the situation, both the leadup and actions as like MM, it would seem that their riders concentration may not be 100% to the race but rather impacted by what he expects to happen.

Would love to have been a fly in the wall of a few pits last weekend and meeting rooms over the next few days
Click to expand...

I think Honda would be laughing their arse off. They won the race and made Rossi look like a ...... with their 2 riders. After the way Rossi slagged them off after he left, they would look at it as Rossi getting his just desserts.

Yamaha are probably a bit blah about it. They have won the constructors and riders championships and the clash has generated unprecedented press for their brand, so they have no real downside.
 
#22 said:
.....yes Rossi made the mistake of picking a fight with someone with nothing to lose. Marquez may have lost a 3/4th place that he wasn't interested in anyway, but Rossi has lost respect and potentially a championship.
Click to expand...

Yes, Rossi made a mistake, and has been punished for it -- he lost his nerve and a good chance to win his 10th title, but he has not lost respect. Certainly he has not lost mine. Those who say that now they lost respect for him, probably never had any, so he's not losing much there.
 
Big credit Lin Jarvis - #SepangClash: Jarvis reacts

Yamaha's Lin Jarvis shares his views on the #SepangClash at the Malaysian GP and explains the situation.
Movistar Yamaha’s Managing Director Lin Jarvis gives us his verdict on Race Direction’s decision on the Rossi/Marquez incident at the Shell Malaysian Grand Prix, plus how they plan to appeal:

What’s your reaction to the Penalty against Valentino?
“I think that what happened today, the incident on track was the result of at least a couple of races of fierce competition between Marc Marquez and Valentino Rossi. From the first race in Phillip Island it has led to the accusation the Valentino made the other day about Marc’s attempt to control the race and attempt to influence the Championship and I think that what we saw in the race was the revenge of Marc Marquez towards Valentino’s statements in the media.

So whilst, if you analyse the race in details today and you study every move that Marc did, there was nothing illegal about any single move, but I think you have to see the bigger picture and you have to question the motivation of the style of race and the way and the attempt of Marc to clearly disturb Valentino to the maximum. Finally that resulted in an overflow of frustration by Valentino and that boiled over and he made a move that was an incorrect move by taking Marc out to the side of the track. Then unfortunately Marc deicide to turn in hit the leg, that caused an incident and Marc fell off.

I am very sad that the incident resulted in the crash of another rider. I think that Valentino was found, shall we say, the one in the race that did a manoeuvre that was not legal. This was finally the result and that’s why he was penalised.

He was given a penalty initially of three penalty points, which is you add that together with the one he already has it creates four points which means he will start at the back of the grid in Valencia. So anyway, our job as a team is to defend the interest of our riders, so whilst we cannot deny that Valentino’s move was not the sort of move we want to see in MotoGP at that time. At the same time we feel that the penalty is quite harsh, to give three points when normally Valentino is not a dirty rider. He is not a rider that creates issues and problems for other people, so as a team we appealed to the FIM to the first decision of the Race Direction. Then Valentino was heard by the FIM, then the FIM also consulted Race Direction, then the FUIM also consulted Marc Marquez and Honda and finally after a period of forty-five minutes or something we have the results of the appeal and it’s been rejected.

So the original penalty of three points against Valentino stands and in the appeal process, if you have a decision of Race Direction you can then take an appeal to the FIM steward. If the FIM Steward rejects your appeal and agrees with the original decision, it’s no longer appealable. It’s final, so case closed.”

From the helicopter images you can see Marquez touched Valentino’s leg and Rossi said this made his foot slip and he wasn’t kicking Marc, do you agree with this?
“It is not only what I have seen, but what Valentino has told me. In this case I think the images back it up. A kick is generally an aggressive forward motion; in this case his leg went off the back and basically Valentino said he was touched and his leg went off the footrest and flicked out. I don’t think it’s probably very wise to kick a 157kg RC213V.”

Do you think Rossi’s actions were justified?
“I am not defending his actions. This is why he received the penalty as it was judged that this was not a move within the rules of racing.”
 
J4rn0 said:
Yes, Rossi made a mistake, and has been punished for it -- he lost his nerve and a good chance to win his 10th title, but he has not lost respect. Certainly he has not lost mine. Those who say that now they lost respect for him, probably never had any, so he's not losing much there.
Click to expand...

While I was never a die hard Rossi fan, I admired his skill. My admiration has wained in recent years with Ducati era and moaning about Lorenzo getting equal status. I will never respect some who, when pushed into a battle, resorted to blatant tactics to get the upper hand over someone they can't beat fairly, and in fect I know many people personally who feel the same way.
 
Randy Mamola has chimed in:

Central to Rossi's defence, and taken into account as 'provocation' by Race Direction, is the claim that Marquez was deliberately holding up Rossi to spoil his race and title chances.

That was also the accusation made against Marquez by Rossi on Thursday, after reviewing the previous Phillip Island race.

On Sunday evening, Rossi said: “In every braking he overtake me, slow down a lot in the corners and for me he didn't open the throttle on the straights.”

Marquez rejected the allegation: “I tried to push in the beginning. I did a [2m] 0.8s. Then I made a mistake at Turn 4, where I'd been struggling all weekend. And then even though we [Marquez and Rossi] overtake many times we were riding fast, in 2m 1.9s.

“When he [Rossi] overtake me the first time, I tried to follow him, but then I saw I can be faster and then I tried to do my race.

“Of course Valentino was disturbing me and I was disturbing Valentino [during the passes], because we couldn't find the best pace. When Valentino was in front he was not very fast and after this incident, his lap time was 2m 1s-high, 2m 2s-low and I thought that I was able to ride even faster.”

Mamola's impression was that the pace of Marquez and Rossi was not suspiciously slow:

“Even with those guys passing each other the way they were, they were doing 2m 1.9s, which is still quite a fast race pace. Would Valentino have been able to close on Jorge [without the Marquez battle]? Nobody knows.

“Was Marc trying to slow in some corners? I don't think so. There were sections where Valentino was clearly faster and there were sections where he could not pull away [from Marquez].

“The only way you can do it is like in F1, by bringing up the telemetry: 'Did you brake in the same zone? Did you stop the bike?'”

Marquez and Rossi passed each other nine times on lap 5 alone, is that proof of something unusual?

“Should Marc just pull over and let Valentino go? I think there was a lot of 'clouds' above both riders [after what had been said earlier in the weekend] 'I'll do this and you do that' type of thing. That's my belief.”

Mamola also saw no reason to doubt that the mistake by Marquez, which allowed Lorenzo to take over second place, was genuine.

“He picked up the back [wheel]. How many times have we seen Marc nearly crash during the season? So would you say that he could have nearly crashed trying to follow Dani into Turn 4? I would say yes.

“At the beginning of the race, trying to stay with Dani, he makes an error and everyone says 'oh, but he seemed to just let him go by'. But if he's on the kerb and nearly onto the grass - and Jorge is not a slow guy. Jorge is there for blood; to win at the beginning of the race and do his style of race.”

Mamola concluded: “No-one's going to be satisfied with the end result today. We're all up in arms because what we had in Australia was something very beautiful.”

Rossi was given three Penalty Points by Race Direction, meaning he will start the Valencia title showdown from last on the grid. The Italian has a seven point advantage over team-mate Lorenzo.

Sepang: Rossi vs. Marquez - Timeline:

• Grid: Pedrosa 1st, Marquez 2nd, Rossi 3rd, Lorenzo 4th.

• Lap 1: Pedrosa, Marquez and Rossi hold their positons, while Lorenzo recovers to fourth after losing ground in opening turns.

• Lap 2: Lorenzo passes Rossi for third place at Turn 1.
Jorge Lorenzo 2m 0.606s
Dani Pedrosa 2m 0.795s
Marc Marquez 2m 0.818s
Valentino Rossi 2m 1.268s

• Lap 3: Marquez makes a mistake under braking, causing him to run wide and over the kerb on the exit of Turn 4. That allows Lorenzo to pass him for second place. Marquez and Rossi are now third and fourth.
Dani Pedrosa 2m 0.822s
Jorge Lorenzo 2m 0.894s
Valentino Rossi 2m 1.361s
Marc Marquez 2m 2.003s

• Lap 4: Rossi overtakes Marquez for the first time, at Turn 4.
Jorge Lorenzo 2m 0.932s
Dani Pedrosa 2m 0.972s
Valentino Rossi 2m 1.127s
Marc Marquez 2m 1.360s

• Lap 5: Marquez briefly passes Rossi into Turn 1. Marquez tries again at Turn 4. Again Rossi retaliates, but is a little wide and Marquez squeezes under Rossi on the exit of Turn 5. Rossi passes on the brakes into Turn 9 but Marquez holds on around the outside. Rossi switches to the inside at Turn 11 and gets back in front, however he almost falls - his outside leg coming off the footpeg - and Marquez gets ahead again.
Jorge Lorenzo 2m 1.174s
Dani Pedrosa 2m 1.247s
Marc Marquez 2m 2.107s
Valentino Rossi 2m 2.363s

• Lap 6: Rossi dives inside Marquez at Turn 7, forcing the Honda rider to lift his bike. Rossi then looks back and gestures at Marquez on the exit of Turn 8. Dorna TV commentator Nick Harris: “Marc Marquez is saying back to him 'you shouldn't have said all those things on Thursday night if you didn't want to scrap like this old chap!'” Marquez sweeps inside Rossi to reclaim third at Turn 14.
Jorge Lorenzo 2m 1.335s
Dani Pedrosa 2m 1.408s
Marc Marquez 2m 1.938s
Valentino Rossi 2m 1.937s

• Lap 7: Rossi makes his next move on the inside at Turn 10, holding Marquez off through Turns 11 and 12. The Honda rider then goes for the outside at the long Turn 13 right hander - Rossi sits up and looks across at Marquez twice as he slows down, while squeezing Marquez to the outside of the track. The pair tangle on the entry to the Turn 14 right-hander, leading onto the back straight, leaving Marquez on the floor.

Fastest race laps:
1. Jorge Lorenzo 2m 0.606s (lap 2)
2. Dani Pedrosa 2m 0.795s (lap 2)
3. Marc Marquez 2m 0.818s (lap 2)
4. Valentino Rossi 2m 1.127s (lap 4)
Click to expand...

AU1381174.jpg
 
Another thing, for those who say Marquez had no place interfering with a rider who was challenging for the championship (As per Alex Lowes twitter) when they were out of contention, I say:

MOTEGI 2010

rossilorenzo.jpg


So, it was ok then because it was Rossi dishing it out, right?
 
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Gaz said:
Big credit Lin Jarvis - #SepangClash: Jarvis reacts


From the helicopter images you can see Marquez touched Valentino’s leg and Rossi said this made his foot slip and he wasn’t kicking Marc, do you agree with this?
“It is not only what I have seen, but what Valentino has told me. In this case I think the images back it up. A kick is generally an aggressive forward motion; in this case his leg went off the back and basically Valentino said he was touched and his leg went off the footrest and flicked out. I don’t think it’s probably very wise to kick a 157kg RC213V.”

Do you think Rossi’s actions were justified?
“I am not defending his actions. This is why he received the penalty as it was judged that this was not a move within the rules of racing.”
Click to expand...

I like that every one thinks a kick is a forward motion.

point of interest
1) if you kick a right handle bar forward the front wheel will point to the left hand side this did not happen.
2) if you hit the right handle bar backwards in a stomping movement the front wheel will turn right and that is what happen.
this will the cause the bike to lose the front end and go down with no real danger for the rider kicking (or stomping ) on the handle bar.
>>>NOT ROCKET SCIENCE<<<

All you Rossis the ...... followers will say I am stupid, dumb ... may be so but even I can see a blatant attempt to crash a fellow rider and if that is who you respect GOD help us all shame shame shame:(
 
Mais8 said:
The amount of rude people in this forum is astonishing. It seems that to make your point you have to use ..... and sucks. Not going to play this game. Wish people here could have civilised discussions.



Will try to find and scan my racing license as it sems you have decided i am a liar.
Click to expand...



How ....... old are you 12?! In that case, you shouldn't even be on an Internet forum. If you are of age, oh ....... well, we are adults. You don't like how we talk, step to the side. We've said a lot worse .... than what you just read in this thread & if you can't handle a couple "..... & sucks" being thrown around then I wouldn't be a member of this forum.

Have a good ....... day. :)
 
#22 said:
Another thing, for those who say Marquez had no place interfering with a rider who was challenging for the championship (As per Alex Lowes twitter) when they were out of contention, I say:

MOTEGI 2010

rossilorenzo.jpg


So, it was ok then because it was Rossi dishing it out, right?
Click to expand...

That is the one that sticks in my mind more than most and was mentioned earlier in this thread and other places (in other places I got smashed for mentioning it because 'Lorenzo still had races to get any points back')

The thing that people seem to be over looking is that Rossi remains 7 points in front entering the last race of the season.

He is not behind in points but in front and JL will not be trying to ride beyond the limits so will be riding with a margin of error whilst trying to manage as best possible. It is this margin of error that makes JL vulnerable to both a mistake (as we know, concentration can be a funny thing) but more so to the attacks of other riders who want to win a race.

All the BS that the penalty applied has cost Rossi the championship is just that BS as he still has one race to ensure that he loses no more than 18 points on JL and given that fact that he is on a factory bike he has a major advantage over most of those he needs to come past at a track he knows intimately
 

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