MotoGP: 2015 Round 17 - Shell Malaysia Motorcycle Grand Prix (SPOILERS)

#22 said:

Thats the smoking gun all the Rossi Boppers would live to find...

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They'll never find it because it is as much a myth as the belief of Rossi as being the most talented MotoGP rider in history.

moto vudu said:

Funny how some people just refuse to accept that MM is the one that turned into Rossi and is responsible for his own crash. Yes, Rossi instigated the incident by running Marc wide, but Rossi never crashed into Marc and forced him down. You could also say MM instigated the incident by passing Rossi only to slow down again, either way they're both to blame.

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You know I think you are right. I bet MurderMarc purposely ran that corner wide knowing Rossi would be sucked into his trap.

Again, there's always an excuse for Rossi.

By your argument, Marquez always races everyone hard in the last laps of races, including Lorenzo (2013/14 Silverstone, 2014 Mugello, 2013 Jerez, 2015 PI)...so

JPSLotus said:

Hi,

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Hi mate!

JPSLotus said:

I don't know if you understand how facts work, but facts are a thing that is indisputable.

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Cheers - but there's no need to get on the attack. We're just exchanging opinions here.

I didn't claim that it was a fact that MM was slowing Rossi. In fact, I am happy to concede that it's my opinion. If anyone doesn't accept that premise, sure, they would disagree.

JPSLotus said:

There is nothing that actually supports your assertion that Marc was favoring one rider over another.

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That's not quite right. There are a few high-profile racers, like Ben Spies (amongst others), which think it's unambiguous that MM was hindering Rossi. I think that they speak from a position of specialised knowledge and expertise.

I don't recall seeing any rider suggesting that MM was not hindering Rossi (but correct me if I'm wrong).

There are also laptimes which show MM slowing considerably (although that is more open to interpretation - one can argue that the battle caused the laptimes to drop so much, although I personally disagree).

Finally, Rossi suggested that MM was closing the throttle on the straights. Race Direction had access to MM93's telemetry so I assume they considered that in making the judgment that MM was slowing Rossi.

JPSLotus said:

It's a fair comparison...

-Both enjoyed special privileges handed to them by the sports administrators.
-Their teams received preferred winner status by the administrators.
-Both have a long checkered history of dirty and dangerous driving/riding.
-Both have 7 world championships.
-Both of their fanbases are/were comprised of ....... lunatics.
-Both enjoyed massive success against mostly inferior competition.

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-both are childhood heros of mine

Thing is,there's a fantastic rationalization for 99% of the actions and the other just speaks adorable English.

Great f1 thread to bash heads?

#22 said:

So Curve, what do you think about Motegi 2010then?

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i think no one crashed and the championship was not decided by race direction.

RCV600RR said:

I don't recall seeing any rider suggesting that MM was not hindering Rossi (but correct me if I'm wrong).

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Randy Mamola, to name just one:

Mamola's impression was that the pace of Marquez and Rossi was not suspiciously slow:

“Even with those guys passing each other the way they were, they were doing 2m 1.9s, which is still quite a fast race pace. Would Valentino have been able to close on Jorge [without the Marquez battle]? Nobody knows.

“Was Marc trying to slow in some corners? I don't think so. There were sections where Valentino was clearly faster and there were sections where he could not pull away [from Marquez].

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xx CURVE xx said:

i think no one crashed and the championship was not decided by race direction.

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So race direction was wrong to punish vale?
And had jlo kicked him that would have been fine,right?

#22 said:

Again, there's always an excuse for Rossi.

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That's not really an argument. The question is whether the excuse is valid. You asked me if Rossi ever raced anyone hard. I responded that I can't think of an exception in the last three laps of any race. I mean, I think if you're going to make the claim that Rossi rode hard to deny Lorenzo at Motegi, you'd need to show that that sort of riding is atypical of Rossi (which you could not, with over 20 years of riding history to draw upon).

If you can't, it may be worth revising your opinion. We must always revise our opinions based on the evidence.

#22 said:

By your argument, Marquez always races everyone hard in the last laps of races, including Lorenzo (2013/14 Silverstone, 2014 Mugello, 2013 Jerez, 2015 PI)...so

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That actually supports my point, I think. Marquez didn't race Rossi hard at the end of the race, but at the start of the race. Additionally, Marquez didn't race Lorenzo hard when he passed him.

For the reasons I've outlined in my other posts with JPS etc., I think it was clear that Rossi poked the bear on Thursday and Marquez wanted to teach him a lesson.

#22 said:

Randy Mamola, to name just one:

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Thanks. Mamola was, AFAIK, the lone dissenting voice on this narrow question. On balance, I think my original position is reasonable.

Arrabbiata1 said:

You, or Dr.No, also mentioned another incident that I immediately thought of at the time - also at Motegi in '03 I think. Makoto Tamada was demoted from the rostrum having made contact with Sete under braking into '90° turn' (- Christ, it's not hard to tell that Honda designed this circuit is it!!). The two bikes made contact causing Gibernau to run on. Tamada was duly disqualified by race direction who issued some statement to the effect off riding in an irresponsible manner and causing danger to other riders. At the same meeting as I recollect, Hopper missed his braking marker (for a change) and took out Bayliss. This resulted in a 1 race suspension. Neither were premeditated, and neither had the intent of interfering with another rider on track.


People on here, some professing to be ex racers themselves, are cherry picking twitter feeds in an attempt to vindicate Rossi's actions and suggest a consensus of opinion that Rossi is right and it's frankly unbelievable. All it does is demonstrate that the cult of Valentino Rossi is as fanatical as it is extreme and in common with such blind worship and idolatry operates outside the realm of rationality. What happened at Sepang simply doesn't accord with the hagiography built around the deity that is VR, which once has yet again proven to be bigger than the sport itself.

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You don't have to go back as far as Hopkin's RACING INCIDENT suspension, which still to this day was perhaps one of thee worst overreacting decision in the history of our sport in reaction to a lip stick dressing of Race Direction to appear relevant on the heels of Kato's death. The stratospheric irony being Sepang was also the site of the late Marco Simoncelli's death and it seems Race Direction did everything in their considerable power to illegitimize their relevancy!

Rossi deliberately forced another rider off track by use of his machine under his control and ADMITTED to his crime. Period. The argument ends there. Yet in typical newspeak fashion, the handlers have issued the talking points, astonishingly the Yellow Hordes and masses defend Rossi's 'intent' that he didn't INTEND to crash Marc out BECAUSE the perpetrator denied it. The world has gone mad.


And another interesting and ironic point I shall make: The license PENALTY POINT system was instituted to keep Marc Marquez at bay. The penalty system was created in the same vein as the Electoral College. That is, to manage incidents with extreme central control while the appearance of safety is maintained for the masses. The irony being of course that this penalty system has been usurped for a more sinister purpose, not only against SAFETY but involving an incident decidedly where Marquez was the complete victim, where the perpetrator ADMITTED as a matter of factual record his crime (fact), notwithstanding the added effects to promote the final round.

propagandhi said:

So race direction was wrong to punish vale?
And had jlo kicked him that would have been fine,right?

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Race direction should have penalized both VR and MM... and if hads ifs and buts were candies and nuts we'd all have cavities.

RCV600RR said:

That's not really an argument. The question is whether the excuse is valid. You asked me if Rossi ever raced anyone hard. I responded that I can't think of an exception in the last three laps of any race. I mean, I think if you're going to make the claim that Rossi rode hard to deny Lorenzo at Motegi, you'd need to show that that sort of riding is atypical of Rossi (which you could not, with over 20 years of riding history to draw upon).

If you can't, it may be worth revising your opinion. We must always revise our opinions based on the evidence.


That actually supports my point, I think. Marquez didn't race Rossi hard at the end of the race, but at the start of the race. Additionally, Marquez didn't race Lorenzo hard when he passed him.

For the reasons I've outlined in my other posts with JPS etc., I think it was clear that Rossi poked the bear on Thursday and Marquez wanted to teach him a lesson.

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We agree on the poke the bear comment. But what everyone forgets is MM ran significantly wide at turn 4, allowing JL past to an amount that MM could not immediately challenge back at him.

Motegi 10 IS atypical of Rossi. I can think of Jerez 05, Laguna Seca 08, Motegi 10 and Sepang 15 off the top of my head with similar riding. Compare that with Welkom 2004, Germany 2005, Assent 2007, Spain 2009, Qatar 2013, Aragon 2015 from memory where he had battles but rode in a way different to above.

So of the countless battles he's had, 4 were extreme to the point of physically hitting, or pushing another rider off track, including Motegi 2010. So yes, he did ride hard to deny JL at Motegi, the same way he rode into Sete in Jerez 2005 after saying "He'll never win another race".

It's human nature, Gibernau and Lorenzo pissed Rossi off and he battled with them harder because of it. Rossi pisses Marquez off and he battles him harder because of it.

MdubSTYLIE said:

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Soo... yer so boring even animals on the other side of the planet are pretending to nap whenever you have nothing new to say? Is that like a super power or something?

#22 said:

We agree on the poke the bear comment. But what everyone forgets is MM ran significantly wide at turn 4, allowing JL past to an amount that MM could not immediately challenge back at him.

Motegi 10 IS atypical of Rossi. I can think of Jerez 05, Laguna Seca 08, Motegi 10 and Sepang 15 off the top of my head. Compare that with Welkom 2004, Germany 2005, Assent 2007, Spain 2009, Qatar 2013, Aragon 2015 off the top of my head.

So of the countless battles he's had, 4 were extreme to the point of physically hitting, or pushing another rider off track.

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Interesting views, thanks.

MM did run wide at Turn 4, but didn't counter-attack Lorenzo at all, even if he was a tenth or two back after Lorenzo passed. When Rossi came by, it was like he was fighting with his mortal enemy!

Jerez 05 was undoubtedly a dirty move.

I guess we disagree on whether Motegi 10 was atypically aggressive. I must admit, I didn't see Motegi 2010 as overly aggressive. They had one moment of contact, and that's when Rossi put his bike at the apex and Lorenzo tried to close the door. I thought both riders were at fault for the contact (and maybe Jorge had more culpability, as he had the option of standing his bike up a little to avoid the contact). The rest of the battle, I thought, was hard but very clean by both riders.

xx CURVE xx said:

Race direction should have penalized both VR and MM... and if hads ifs and buts were candies and nuts we'd all have cavities.

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Hey bro, hope all is well in your neck of soaking woods. Saw F1, was pouring all week. Stay dry.

So race direction should have penalized both perpetrator and victim in the incident in question, or are u saying Marc racing Rossi hard, in the fashion that VR fans have admired him for was no longer valid?

Have the following incidents been RECLASSIFIED by Rossi fan?



Well then Race Direction have some retroactive penalty work to do.

Guys guys. ...can we please stick to being ........ to one another because of legitimate reasons like supporting the wrong rider/ nationalism?

RCV600RR said:

Interesting views, thanks.

Jerez 05 was undoubtedly a dirty move.

I guess we disagree on whether Motegi 10 was atypically aggressive. I must admit, I didn't see Motegi 2010 as overly aggressive. They had one moment of contact, and that's when Rossi put his bike at the apex and Lorenzo tried to close the door. I thought both riders were at fault for the contact (and maybe Jorge had more culpability, as he had the option of standing his bike up a little to avoid the contact). The rest of the battle, I thought, was hard but very clean by both riders.

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Oh no I agree that Motegi 2010 was a good battle for the viewers. My statement merely is to the Rossi fans who use Laverty's tweet as a reason to justify that MM shouldn't have been interfering with Rossi's race. Why do they overlook 2010 yet shout blue murder at Sepang?

propagandhi said:

Guys guys. ...can we please stick to being ........ to one another because of legitimate reasons like supporting the wrong rider/ nationalism?

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Sure. .... you, you (Insert favourite rider) fan!!

Jumkie said:

Hey bro, hope all is well in your neck of soaking woods. Say F1, was pouring all week. Stay dry.

So race direction should have penalized both perpetrator and victim in the incident in question, or are u saying Marc racing Rossi hard, in the fashion that VR fans have admired him for was no longer valid?

Have the following incidents been RECLASSIFIED by Rossi fan?

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Well then Race Direction have some retroactive penalty work to do.

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Don't bother Jum, none of them bar RCV600RR have answered my Motegi question. To them it's one rule for Rossi.