MotoGP: 2015 Round 17 - Shell Malaysia Motorcycle Grand Prix (SPOILERS)

ReddiWhip · Oct 25, 2015

Gaz said:
I say that as he was accelerating thinking (I suspect) that VR would also have been accelerating to clear the corner and maintain the lead (afterall VR was no in a controlling position). To me, due to the lean angle he would have had to apply a significant amount of front brake and likely lost the front end.

Based on the low speed they both were traveling at, the amount of track in front of them, and my lifetime of riding dirtbikes and sport bikes, I value you're opinion, but i disagree. And that's perfectly OK.

We find common ground in that there is blame to go around. Good talking my friend.

Now i gotta go watch the Philadelphia Eagles (who aren't without their share of problems), and forget about racing for a while.

Good night all!

meef · Oct 25, 2015

Quote:
Originally Posted by meef View Post
JPSLogus, which of the incidents in Feros's post would you consider to meet this rule?

It's your judgement call:

Riders must ride in a responsible manner which does not cause danger to
other competitors or participants, either on the track or in the pit-lane.

MM made far more irresponsible and was riding dangerous more than VR, he posted several stills of the passes previous to MM ramming VR and going down.

So if VR should have been black flagged, now many laps before MM crashed into VR should he have been black flagged?
Nothing in his post qualifies.

Once VR decided to essentially "confront" MM going into that corner, that was no longer responsible riding. Riding close is part of racing. It's been that way for decades. Dozens of riders have done so without incident and without throwing temper tantrums.

VR did the same sort of thing he did in Assen, and what I personally believe to be true in Argentina; put himself in a spot as Ayrton Senna used to do, and leave it up to the other person as to whether or not they wanted to have an accident. That's not responsible riding or driving because you're basically trying to put all responsibility on the other person in a situation where it takes two to tango. VR had a responsibility to not do what he did. He could have kept going and just dealt with the entire situation much as he was loathe to do. Who knows, he might have beaten MM on merit rather than attempting assassination on the track.

- I didn't see a "confrontation" i only saw a rider look back as he rode past another rider ( cleanly i might add , unlike previous block passes MM made ) so I see nothing wrong with what VR did. This so called penalty in your mind is little more than your way of interpreting the rules to your liking.

- I also find it incredibly biased that i can drive into a rider and pass them, several times no less, it's ok, but when said rider makes a clean pass but "looks" at me wrong he's broken some rule interpreted by idiots.

- If this kind of riding stands and this is the rules going forward MotoGP will be nothing more than a list of assassins crashing into whoever is at the top of the points, as long as i don't look at them, i can .... this dude up.

- Your pathetic, VR blocked him, waaaaaahahah cry more MM , there was only 70 feet of run off to go around, but no , you twist the throttle and ram VR so you can be viewed as a victim, ....... .........

VR is the points leader he doesn't have to win every race left he's just got to stay close to his team mate and finish. He was the only guy here with something to loose and what he did was exactly what anyone one with a competitive cell in there body would do, protect your fininsh, if MM kept going the 5th and 6th would have caught them, once MM went down, no one got close to VR, proof what he did was exactly justified and the right thing to do!

I can't wait till they start assassinating MM, hope it starts in Valencia, if there is a single rider on that track with balls, MM won't make the first lap.

Gaz · Oct 25, 2015

ReddiWhip said:
I know what you're implying, and if you read my post near the beginning of this thread, i think you would see that i'm fairly well versed when it comes to motorcycle racing, and not just motogp. I'm 32, and my knowledge from 2000 and on shows i've been watching (and riding for that matter) the better part of my life. Come on, bro.

Not that i expect you to care what i say, but I've also stated I'm a fan of Yamaha and don't care who pilots it. Lorenzo wins, Yamaha wins, im happy. If Marquez signs with Yamaha i'll be very happy if he wins too. But that doesnt barr me from stating my view of the circumstances.

I'm saying they're both to blame for today. But only one of the parties was damaged. And my gripe is that this championship was not decided on the track by in large.

Been watching or involved since 1977 myself so have a bit of years there as well, and well know that times change but often the same sh*t happens but with different participants (my age is why for me, the 500cc era is the one I will always recall as the greatest)

I also agree that both are to blame but the issue that people have is that they want MM punished for something that no rule covers whereas the actions of the second are covered by written rules

I am prepared to state now (based on the RD statements) that if rules existed thence MM would have been sanctioned in some way

moto vudu · Oct 25, 2015

Gaz said:
Been watching or involved since 1977 myself so have a bit of years there as well, and well know that times change but often the same sh*t happens but with different participants (my age is why for me, the 500cc era is the one I will always recall as the greatest)

I also agree that both are to blame but the issue that people have is that they want MM punished for something that no rule covers whereas the actions of the second are covered by written rules

I am prepared to state now (based on the RD statements) that if rules existed thence MM would have been sanctioned in some way

Even Pedrosa said during the post race conference that not everything can be in the rulebook and every incident is not always so black & white.

dduc996 · Oct 25, 2015

Iannone interfered at Phillip Island then.

gwudi · Oct 25, 2015

JPSLotus said:
Again stop bringing Marc into this and focus on who caused the actual crash - VR. The MM stuff is sideshow .... and has no bearing on what happened.

Valentino did everything to ensure that incident unfolded the way it did. He didn't have to. Being a 15 year pro with 7 world titles in the premier class, he should have set an example and just kept racing.

giving the sign out "if you cant win the title yourself, it´s perfectly ok to interfere in whatever way you want (do you really believe this would have gone on without someone crahsing? and marquez didnt care if in a highspeed turn or at the end of a long straight. rossi "at least" forced the confrontation in a slow turn or way). playing with the health of your fellow riders, going full risk in every trivial positional fighting."

what you "defend" is the saying "as long as noone gets hurt it´s ok" just because today nothing more serious happend out of the actions of marquez, doesn´t make them right. i can´t believe no one else realizeses that he did´n´t care what happens. if one or both of them would have crashed and getting injured...he just didn´t care. his intention was just clearly to mess up rossis race. what he did was purely reckless and dangerous driving in multiple occasions.

no one reasonable fights like this for the 3rd place that early in the race, with no chance to gain anything out of it, especially if he actually has the speed to try to win the race, and could easily try to close the gap to the second place.

meef · Oct 25, 2015

Biggest point I would like to make that people are ignoring.

Rossi made zero attempt to take that corner and take it on a line that would have had him clipping the apex.

- It's good that someone finally posted what Rossi was thinking, i don't see in the rules that you have to hit every apex? what page?

He made no attempt to turn in before the contact.

- At the time of contact VR was in front of MM by half a bike, last i check the rider in front can take any line he wants, and can look in any direction he wants.

Making contact was always his intention. Had he turned in, he would have made the corner and never made contact with MM.

- Video overwhelmingly shows VR took him wide as happens in many, many races this season. Please explain how the video and telemetry that shows MM riding into the back side of VR that it is some how VR's fault that ..... MM would rather fall down than ride around the 70 feet of run off in that turn has than to try to stay in the race?

OH, that's right MM has a failed season and will no longer be champion so why bother staying in the race as long as i can crash and choose the winner

/fail.

Jumkie · Oct 25, 2015

moto vudu said:
Like Bayliss said, those two would not have been able to battle like that all race long. One or both of them was going down eventually.

I call ......... Bayliss should know better too. If they kept it as clean as they did before Rossi pussied out it would of been epic. Rossi cowardly opted out of what the Yellow Army have always said was his forte.

Rossi QUIT because he couldn't handle the heat of racing battle, ah the irony. ....... coward on top of being a whiner. ..... move.

Keshav · Oct 25, 2015

Gaz said:
A couple of weird or interesting points out of this weekend.

First we have Lorenzo who to many who have been somewhat questioning of him in years past, is now receiving a lot of support from people 'hoping' that he wins the championship

The we have MurderMarc as he was once known garnering sympathy from those who so christened him MurderMarc because of the actions of Rossi

I know we have a full moon near my place but is it world wide such seems to be the winds of change this weekend

No sympathy for MM on my part. He rode like a putz instead of doing the job Honda pays him for, winning races, or at least trying to. HRC doesn't lay out millions so a little twink like him can use a zillion dollar machine for the equivalent of standing on an old man's lawn to taunt him.

Keshav · Oct 25, 2015

Jumkie said:
Bow bow roof roof bow wow.

"If ever you say anything intelligent, I'll let you know by responding." Kancer

Well well well, guess who said something intelligent?

THIS GUY.

.
Even a broken clock is right two times a day.

MdubSTYLIE · Oct 25, 2015

Keshav said:
.
Even a broken clock is right two times a day.

levigarrett · Oct 25, 2015

Mais8 said:
The amount of rude people in this forum is astonishing. It seems that to make your point you have to use ..... and sucks. Not going to play this game. Wish people here could have civilised discussions.

Will try to find and scan my racing license as it sems you have decided i am a liar.

..... and sucks you say? Hold please.......Lemme get Sparrows on the line. She'll tune you right up. We pay her to deliver those lines on the forum and she never lets us down.

JPSLotus · Oct 25, 2015

meef said:
Biggest point I would like to make that people are ignoring.

Rossi made zero attempt to take that corner and take it on a line that would have had him clipping the apex.

- It's good that someone finally posted what Rossi was thinking, i don't see in the rules that you have to hit every apex? what page?

He made no attempt to turn in before the contact.

- At the time of contact VR was in front of MM by half a bike, last i check the rider in front can take any line he wants, and can look in any direction he wants.

Making contact was always his intention. Had he turned in, he would have made the corner and never made contact with MM.

- Video overwhelmingly shows VR took him wide as happens in many, many races this season. Please explain how the video and telemetry that shows MM riding into the back side of VR that it is some how VR's fault that ..... MM would rather fall down than ride around the 70 feet of run off in that turn has than to try to stay in the race?

OH, that's right MM has a failed season and will no longer be champion so why bother staying in the race as long as i can crash and choose the winner

/fail.

Well nice to see another moron who registered solely for no reason other than to cry, bleat, and beat his chest over the perceived injustice handed out to the greatest charlatan of modern grand prix motorcycle racing.

MdubSTYLIE · Oct 25, 2015

levigarrett said:
..... and sucks you say? Hold please.......Lemme get Sparrows on the line. She'll tune you right up. We pay her to deliver those lines on the forum and she delivers!

Don't forget to tell him about Shovels club before he leaves.

Gaz · Oct 25, 2015

moto vudu said:
Even Pedrosa said during the post race conference that not everything can be in the rulebook and every incident is not always so black & white.

Absolutely correct, it cannot be but when you are adjudicating on incidents as were or are Race Control, you MUST use the rule book and only the rule book to determine if a rule was breached.

If there is no rule in the rule book you cannot penalise a rider for an offence that does not exist or where no written rule was broken.

That is the simplistics of it all. One rider breached or was adjudged to have breached a rule that exists within the rule book and under which the event was conducted/licensed, the second rider did not breach any written rules but it has been made clear by Race Direction that they do not believe that he was riding his race and only his race (paraphrasing)

If we want to play by a 'gray area' rulebook than we may as well throw things like fuel limits, tyre rules, minimum weights and capacity out the window (a deliberate exaggeration on my part)

Keshav · Oct 25, 2015

Gaz said:
Just to keep this rolling to 100 pages - a 4 camera view

motogp - Jiffier gifs through HTML5 Video Conversion.

"Go 'way boy, yah botha me."

JPSLotus · Oct 25, 2015

gwudi said:
giving the sign out "if you cant win the title yourself, it´s perfectly ok to interfere in whatever way you want (do you really believe this would have gone on without someone crahsing? and marquez didnt care if in a highspeed turn or at the end of a long straight. rossi "at least" forced the confrontation in a slow turn or way). playing with the health of your fellow riders, going full risk in every trivial positional fighting."

what you "defend" is the saying "as long as noone gets hurt it´s ok" just because today nothing more serious happend out of the actions of marquez, doesn´t make them right. i can´t believe no one else realizeses that he did´n´t care what happens. if one or both of them would have crashed and getting injured...he just didn´t care. his intention was just clearly to mess up rossis race. what he did was purely reckless and dangerous driving in multiple occasions.

no one reasonable fights like this for the 3rd place that early in the race, with no chance to gain anything out of it, especially if he actually has the speed to try to win the race, and could easily try to close the gap to the second place.

No one fights like this for 3rd place that early in the race?

BULL ....... .....

Did you not watch Phillip Island last weekend?

It was a fight tooth and nail for P1 thru P4 the entire race.

Dr No · Oct 25, 2015

meef said:
Biggest point I would like to make that people are ignoring.

Rossi made zero attempt to take that corner and take it on a line that would have had him clipping the apex.

- It's good that someone finally posted what Rossi was thinking, i don't see in the rules that you have to hit every apex? what page?

He made no attempt to turn in before the contact.

- At the time of contact VR was in front of MM by half a bike, last i check the rider in front can take any line he wants, and can look in any direction he wants.

Making contact was always his intention. Had he turned in, he would have made the corner and never made contact with MM.

- Video overwhelmingly shows VR took him wide as happens in many, many races this season. Please explain how the video and telemetry that shows MM riding into the back side of VR that it is some how VR's fault that ..... MM would rather fall down than ride around the 70 feet of run off in that turn has than to try to stay in the race?

OH, that's right MM has a failed season and will no longer be champion so why bother staying in the race as long as i can crash and choose the winner

/fail.

Queef,
You keep mentioning telemetry. What telemetry are you referring to?
And what's your opinion on the cause of the Marquez' front wheel tuck?

Dr No · Oct 25, 2015

meef said:
Quote:

I can't wait till they start assassinating MM, hope it starts in Valencia, if there is a single rider on that track with balls, MM won't make the first lap.

So you want the whole grid to behave in the very manner you condemn Marc for.
That is a pretty ...... up view.

levigarrett · Oct 25, 2015

moto vudu said:

Rossi broke an unwritten rule. Never talk .... about someone with nothing to lose who is faster, younger and feels no pain (clearly given the sheer number of crashes).

Rossi started on Thursday with an unwarranted unnecessary .... Then he was unable to challenge his teammate, profit from his qualifying position or make a workable pass to retain his lead on Marc. When all of those chickens came home to roost, he cheated and was penalized. Rossi picked the wrong guy to bully. He's too old and too slow to pull that stuff off now.

/END

MotoGP: 2015 Round 17 - Shell Malaysia Motorcycle Grand Prix (SPOILERS)

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