MotoGP: 2015 Round 17 - Shell Malaysia Motorcycle Grand Prix (SPOILERS)

Jumkie · Oct 25, 2015

Keshav said:
Thank you for your concern. Bla bla bla.

Bow bow roof roof bow wow.

"If ever you say anything intelligent, I'll let you know by responding." Kancer

Well well well, guess who said something intelligent?

THIS GUY.

JPSLotus · Oct 25, 2015

littlesparrows said:

....... .....

Gaz · Oct 25, 2015

JPSLotus said:
Dangerous precedent.

Agree but would also say that there is also danger of a different kind should actions of the like of MM not be bought into check some how (it is the identifying that I genuinely have NFI of) as those type of actions are also (IMO) uncalled for.

JPSLotus · Oct 25, 2015

feros said:
buddy, i cant care less about who wins the championship or what the rules,tire,engineering,..etc.(cuz tbh this really isnt my field)

but what interest me is intelligence.

what baffles me is that these ppl get paid from 10m to 30m a year, how could they act in such a way: rossi's pr, lorenzo post match pr, the way MM rode, the way rossi reacted,... why!!!

and when you say nothing in my post qualifies, hard racing and fair racing is what this games all about,but that was not hard racing, the way he rode just kida justified(ugh,dont really wanna say that) what rossi was saying in his pr.and i have to give this quote again
"Consequences dictate our course of action ..."

You wouldn't be baffled if you see them as people instead of idols.

People can be counted upon to be people no matter how much money they make, or what they do.

Once you accept that, then everything else with these guys makes sense.

Willski · Oct 25, 2015

Interesting

moto vudu · Oct 25, 2015

JPSLotus said:
I wanted to expound upon something Arrab said much, much earlier regarding precedent set by what happened today, and how that impacts the future of motor racing.

Formula 1 saw a huge uptick in dangerous driving maneuvers and all sorts of dangerous defensive maneuvers such as chop blocking, squeezing drivers, and etc. in the 1980s. Part of it was due to Ayrton Senna, the man in my avatar. So no one mistakes me, while I love Senna, I have never been at peace with how he drove at times as he engaged in the sort of .... that actually VR doesn't even have the balls to do. Estoril, 1988, over a perceived slight of being passed (sound familiar?) he attempted to run Alain Prost into the pit wall at Estoril at 190MPH. Nothing was done in terms of penalties. He had run-ins with every top driver during that era. However the only one who fought back was Nigel Mansell, and he never backed down to Senna going as far to brake check him in the rain causing a big accident as payback for all of the things Senna had done to him over the years.

The problem arose in the wake of the incidents with Alain Prost at Suzuka in 1989, and then 1990, the FIA stood silent. Unfortunately this was a catastrophic mistake on their part because it sent a message to the younger generations that racing as a contact sport was perfectly acceptable. Michael Schumacher built upon what Senna did, and did even far worse, and ironically Senna was Michael's idol. See, this is learned behavior. When you see your idols getting away with it and winning as a result without punishment, it sends a message to everyone that it will be condoned. What ultimately happened is that in the wake of Senna's death in 1994, the situation got progressively worse as the decade went on. How there were no deaths as a result of the uptick in dangerous driving by many drivers is still a mystery to me. Some may remember Robert Kubica's horrific crash at Montreal 2007 where his entire car just disintegrated and he walked away unscathed. Do you know what precipitated the crash though? Jarno Trulli squeezed him onto the grass on the run down to the hairpin. There was no penalty given out for it. F1 has a huge problem with dangerous driving because much like in MotoGP race control chose to do nothing.

What happened today, to tie it back to Arrab's comments, sent a message to the kids who worship Valentino, that if you're frustrated on the circuit, punting your opponent is perfectly acceptable. This is why the penalty was chickenshit because this was the perfect time to send a huge message to not only Valentino, but everyone watching grand prix motorcycle racing that behavior like this will not be tolerated period. This was important to do as Valentino chose to do it at the site of Marco Simoncelli's death, which was just bad.

Instead, he gets to ride at Valencia. Yes he starts from the back of the grid, but if he manages to somehow win the world championship, the message it has now sent to all riders is that behaving like this might get you in trouble, but it still worked out for Valentino. He won his 8th premier class title in spite of it, so who really gives as ....?

Dangerous precedent.

Look at all the riders Marc has made contact with after getting frustrated in the heat of the moment. Marc also rarely gets properly penalized for his actions. That's likely why Rossi's penalty wasn't so severe because the incident was with the most dangerous rider on the grid.

I agree that Rossi pulled a Senna by leaving it up to Marc to decide if he wanted to make contact and risk a crash... but ultimately Rossi didn't punt Marc off his bike.

InstantSlayer · Oct 25, 2015

Jumkie said:
Rossi got punked around and he goes crying with his fans in tow.

Karma 1 Rossi 0

Relax dude nobody cries,Rossi will not start last.

JPSLotus · Oct 25, 2015

Gaz said:
Agree but would also say that there is also danger of a different kind should actions of the like of MM not be bought into check some how (it is the identifying that I genuinely have NFI of) as those type of actions are also (IMO) uncalled for.

Sure, but in MM's case, something should have been done when he torpedoes someone or leaves it up to them as to whether or not they want to have an accident.

Race Direction backed off of him as well when they could have cracked down severely numerous times for his on track antics.

Jumkie · Oct 25, 2015

Dr No said:
I keep seeing references to this, but I'm currently VPNless and trapped behind the Great Firewall.
Could someone kindly summarise?

Twas a link posted to a real petition created on change.org by the Yellow Insane Army to....get this, free Rossi of this injustice and restore integrity to MotoGP.

ReddiWhip · Oct 25, 2015

Gaz said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReddiWhip View Post
Did Rossi block the racing line YES! YES HE DID! Does that mean that Marquez HAS to open the throttle and ride through him? NO, NO IT DOES!!! What the hell is everyone thinking?
Correct he does not have tio ‘ridet hrough him’ but at the same time he has the right to NOT expect the other rider to slow down so extremely as was done whilst continuiung to have that rider take the racing line

Where the impact occurs MM is accelerating BECAUSE that is a normal acceleration point of the track. VR is NOT accelerating in a manner he would have done on other laps and thus the impact occurs.

This is a race and riders, even those who despise the other have the right to expect that the rider they are competing against will not SLOW dramatically on race line short of a mechanical issue.

So we're in agreement that Marquez ran into the side of Rossi, good. Again, I'm stating that these are two of the greatest rides to ever throw their .... on a gas tank. Marquez knew where Rossi was with his eyes closed, just like EDIT: ROSSI knows where the racing line is without looking.

Again i say, if Marquez wasn't looking for contact, their wouldn't have been any. Sorry all, that's just the facts of it. Look at the helicopter view. If Marquez didn't want to run into Rossi, he wouldve slowed and had plenty of room to do so.

Sorry Marquez fell, but that's not Rossi's fault. As for the "kick", the video was posted which shows what it looks like when someone riding a motorcycle kicks another vehicle. That ain't what you saw today folks. Fact.

JPSLotus · Oct 25, 2015

moto vudu said:
Look at all the riders Marc has made contact with after getting frustrated in the heat of the moment. Marc also rarely gets properly penalized for his actions. That's likely why Rossi's penalty wasn't so severe because the incident was with the most dangerous rider on the grid.

I agree that Rossi pulled a Senna by leaving it up to Marc to decide if he wanted to make contact and risk a crash... but ultimately Rossi didn't punt Marc off his bike.

Again stop bringing Marc into this and focus on who caused the actual crash - VR. The MM stuff is sideshow .... and has no bearing on what happened.

Valentino did everything to ensure that incident unfolded the way it did. He didn't have to. Being a 15 year pro with 7 world titles in the premier class, he should have set an example and just kept racing.

Willski · Oct 25, 2015

Jumkie said:
Twas a link posted to a real petition created on change.org by the Yellow Insane Army to....get this, free Rossi of this injustice and restore integrity to MotoGP.

That was very thoughtful of you. I'm sure you will get plenty of signatures

Gaz · Oct 25, 2015

JPSLotus said:
Sure, but in MM's case, something should have been done when he torpedoes someone or leaves it up to them as to whether or not they want to have an accident.

Race Direction backed off of him as well when they could have cracked down severely numerous times for his on track antics.

I hark back to it by the Willarot incident was enough for me ............. to those saying that Rossi is getting off lightly let us not forget the Willarott incident and subsequent effects or punishments

Willski · Oct 25, 2015

JPSLotus said:
Again stop bringing Marc into this and focus on who caused the actual crash - VR. The MM stuff is sideshow .... and has no bearing on what happened.

Valentino did everything to ensure that incident unfolded the way it did. He didn't have to. Being a 15 year pro with 7 world titles in the premier class, he should have set an example and just kept racing.

I concur

JPSLotus · Oct 25, 2015

Gaz said:
I hark back to it by the Willarot incident was enough for me ............. to those saying that Rossi is getting off lightly let us not forget the Willarott incident and subsequent effects or punishments

Sure but VR has been doing .... like what he did today stretching back long before MM ever sat on a grid.

"It's racing Casey."

moto vudu · Oct 25, 2015

JPSLotus said:
Again stop bringing Marc into this and focus on who caused the actual crash - VR. The MM stuff is sideshow .... and has no bearing on what happened.

Valentino did everything to ensure that incident unfolded the way it did. He didn't have to. Being a 15 year pro with 7 world titles in the premier class, he should have set an example and just kept racing.

How can we not bring Marc into this?? This is about Marc and Rossi! I don't see how you can say MM's reckless riding has no bearing on what happened... it had EVERYTHING to do with what happened. This incident didn't happen in a vacuum.

Vale is guilty for setting Marc up to decide if he wanted to make contact. Marc is guilty for deciding to make that contact.

ReddiWhip · Oct 25, 2015

Gaz said:
Ianonne they did.

Rossi had to basically tell a lot of his fans to effectively 'pull their heads in' given the level of abuse on social media platforms that had been directed at Ianonne.

In that act, Rossi shows leadership and was deserving of immense respect.

Yeah, that's pretty dumb. I would say THOSE people are fan-boys, and not fans of the sport.

yamaka46 · Oct 25, 2015

JPSLotus said:
Just wanted to follow up from earlier so no one misunderstands me since I did talk a little bit about MM and intentions.

Based purely on the rules, Rossi should have been black flagged within 2 laps of the incident for what happened.

In spite of what he believes or believed about MM the sporting regulations state the following in section 1.21 subsection 2:

Penalties as laid out by the disciplinary code...

When you consider the options from DQ down, Rossi got off lightly.

In theory he should have been penalized under withdrawal of championship points and exclusion from the championship. There is precedent as I mentioned many pages ago where Michael Schumacher was excluded from the 1997 FIA Formula 1 World Championship for his actions in the final race at Jerez. So it has been done in a top level series for causing a collision by intentionally positioning one's self so such conflict was inevitable. Rossi did it subtly with the actual hit, but the intent remains the same.

He should not be participating in Valencia, and Jorge Lorenzo should have been declared 2015 MotoGP World Champion as a result.

Whether MM did or did not conspire to ruin VR's race doesn't matter as there is nothing explicit in the rules pertaining to such things. In order to do something about it, there needs to be proof. There is no evidence to support such claims. This is indisputable. Burden of proof in a court of law is much higher than burden of proof across internet forums. At the end of the day, Race Direction's biggest mistake was not in assessing a larger penalty to Valentino Rossi.

A rather different scenario - Schumacher's punting of Villeneuve meant he would have won the WC not Villeneuve, had all gone according to plan.

Murray Walker famously said something like "you've hit him with the wrong bit of your car, Michael". Villeneuve held the inside line and Scumacher deliberately turned in on him causing the crash. Even Ferrari International Assistance had to review the post race decision to do nothing due to the outrage, and eventually stripped Schumacher of hie points for the year. Also MS did have form, driving into Damon Hill to take the 1994 WC.

Not exactly the way the race played out this weekend, is it? Only one protagonist could win the WC - regardless of what your viewpoint was of the incident and the behaviours leading up to it, it was not deliberately causing an accident to try to win the WC by fair means or foul.

feros · Oct 25, 2015

JPSLotus said:
You wouldn't be baffled if you see them as people instead of idols.

People can be counted upon to be people no matter how much money they make, or what they do.

Once you accept that, then everything else with these guys makes sense.

except that these ppl get paid that much cuz they are suppose to know not to act that way otherwise talent is not that rare,lots of ppl have it, you get there by having both.(talent and intelligence)

ps, i am older than most of these,so i dont think i can even remotely see them as idols, but bear in mind ppl usually take human as their idols, not some ancient history legend, or a character from a book.

Gaz · Oct 25, 2015

ReddiWhip said:
So we're in agreement that Marquez ran into the side of Rossi, good. Again, I'm stating that these are two of the greatest rides to ever throw their .... on a gas tank. Marquez knew where Rossi was with his eyes closed, just like race knows where the racing line is without looking.

Again i saw, if Marquez wasn't looking for contact, their wouldn't have been any. Sorry all, that's just the fact of it all. Look at the helicopter view. If Marquez didn't want to run into Rossi, he wouldve slowed and had plenty of room to do so.

I have never stated that MM is not the one that makes contact, what I have stated is I remain 100% uncertain that he is the one that initiates it by the entire action of the time.

Now I have also highlighted something and suggest that you check dictionary as to the meaning of the word FACT.

What you have posted is an opinion not fact.

I strongly doubt that MM was looking for contact purely because being on the outside he was 95% certain to lose the argument and whilst you are of course entitled to your OPINION ours differ.

ReddiWhip said:
Sorry Marquez fell, but that's not Rossi's fault. As for the "kick", the video was posted which shows what it looks like when someone riding a motorcycle kicks another vehicle. That ain't what you saw today folks. Fact.

Sorry by Race Direction determined differently ........ that is a FACT

With regards the 'alleged' kick, you will not find anywhere that I may have stated it was a kick as for mine it was action/reaction caused by the contact of the issue, much like at times we all think we feel a spider and literally go all Bruce Lee in reaction.

MotoGP: 2015 Round 17 - Shell Malaysia Motorcycle Grand Prix (SPOILERS)

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