2024 Round 19 - PT Grand Prix of Thailand - Chang International Circuit

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Unprofessional bromance?
He has spent years building a bike capable of neutralising Marquez's frequently displayed ability to stuff a bike into a corner past what a front tyre should be able to handle. Clearly aware just how damn good he is given how long and hard they had to work to get there.
Why would he risk another manufacturer getting hold of that ability and risking all of that hard work? Two other European manufacturers aren't a million miles from competing with Ducati. He has seen first hand, and a lot closer than any of us, what a difference Marquez can make, including this year on his first year on a Ducati, compared to others on a GP23 with previous experience on a Ducati. He has access to the data also.
Ample evidence he has used his head not his heart and made the smart move.
All true, and Danilo Petrucci actually said (wink wink, nudge nudge, I have no inside knowledge despite knowing many on the team as a recent factory Ducati rider) that Gigi wanted to see what a rider like MM could do on his bike.

However what I believe Lex is saying is that Ciabatti in parallel with Gigi ran a rider talent and development program for several years which produced at least 2 championship capable riders, including a rider who looked like a new hegemon as recently as a couple of weeks ago, and may do again in future if not this season which is not over yet. Lex is probably right that they could have dominated for several more years with the riders they already had, who are significantly younger than MM as well, and years of effort by Ciabatti have basically been abandoned.

MM’s box office appeal particularly with a possible Doohan comeback element, appeal to sponsors and appeal to the actual owners of Ducati who are German and not Italian were doubtless influential, and he may even have been cheaper (for Ducati) than Martin. The other thing is that historically even apart from being horrible at man management Ducati have not appreciated their hand being forced by riders and both Bagnaia with a contract demand and to a lesser extent Martin with an ultimatum that he be signed to the factory team have done this. Another thing is that MM appears to have played his hand perfectly and very intelligently, and perhaps less arrogantly than Rossi has done in similar circumstances, and in my biased opinion he has never really been petulant as Rossi has been. It was reasonable for him to reject Pramac as subsequent pronouncements from Pramac have demonstrated. If he really would have been happy to ride a GP25 for Gresini then the decision was partly political from a different direction,

As Lex said Gigi was always going to trump Ciabatti, he can walk to any team on the grid including Honda who were ready to back up a Brinks truck to unload money, and possibly Aprilia where he has historical connections and a record of success and are Italian. He has been proven correct about choice of riders at Ducati previously as well.

The bottom line from a racing point of view is how much of a threat MM would have been at Aprilia, which it has been reported was his serious option I would imagine the line of thought for many would be if Vinales can win on an Aprilia MM is much better than him. We have just been discussing how this proved incorrect in a parallel situation with Rossi and Stoner, but the Aprilia doesn’t appear to be a fundamentally flawed bike. Aprilia’s main deficiencies have been money, and imo riding talent, and MM could have brought both, including possibly quite major sponsorship.
 
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All true, and Danilo Petrucci actually said (wink wink, nudge nudge, I have no inside knowledge despite knowing many on the team as a recent factory Ducati rider) that Gigi wanted to see what a rider like MM could do on his bike.

However what I believe Lex is saying is that Ciabatti in parallel with Gigi ran a rider talent and development program for several years which produced at least 2 championship capable riders, including a rider who looked like a new hegemon as recently as a couple of weeks ago, and may do again in future if not this season which is not over yet. Lex is probably right that they could have dominated for several more years with the riders they already had, who are significantly younger than MM as well, and years of effort by Ciabatti have basically been abandoned.

MM’s box office appeal particularly with a possible Doohan comeback element, appeal to sponsors and appeal to the actual owners of Ducati who are German and not Italian were doubtless influential, and he may even have been cheaper (for Ducati) than Martin. The other thing is that historically even apart from being horrible at man management Ducati have not appreciated their hand being forced by riders and both Bagnaia with a contract demand and to a lesser extent Martin with an ultimatum that he be signed to the factory team have done this. Another thing is that MM appears to have played his hand perfectly and very intelligently, and perhaps less arrogantly than Rossi has done in similar circumstances, and in my biased opinion he has never really been petulant as Rossi has been. It was reasonable for him to reject Pramac as subsequent pronouncements from Pramac have demonstrated. If he really would have been happy to ride a GP25 for Gresini then the decision was partly political from a different direction,

As Lex said Gigi was always going to trump Ciabatti, he can walk to any team on the grid including Honda who were ready to back up a Brinks truck to unload money, and possibly Aprilia where he has historical connections and a record of success and are Italian. He has been proven correct about choice of riders at Ducati previously as well.

The bottom line from a racing point of view is how much of a threat MM would have been at Aprilia, which it has been reported was his serious option I would imagine the line of thought for many would be if Vinales can win on an Aprilia MM is much better than him. We have just been discussing how this proved incorrect in a parallel situation with Rossi and Stoner, but the Aprilia doesn’t appear to be a fundamentally flawed bike. Aprilia’s main deficiencies have been money, and imo riding talent, and MM could have brought both, including possibly quite major sponsorship.

Yeah good points. They have developed riders and had a good relationship with Pramac who are gone now.
Regardless, Marquez is the biggest threat in the field on a competitor's bike. As you say, if Vinales can win on the Aprilia then Marquez most certainly can. The biggest talent and threat in the field is now not a threat but an asset.
Makes perfect sense imo.
 
Last year was;
1. Martin
2. Bagnaia +0.235
3. Binder +0.114
4. Bezzecchi +2.005
5. Quartararo +4.555
6. M Marquez +5.382

This year its looking like another Martin/Bagnaia/M Marquez and perhaps Bastainini fight
 
I read that Andrea Illanone has been given the green light for the vr46 wildcards. Could be interesting, the man has a point to prove and a big scar on his professional history. Expect some hard charging.
Not unhappy to see Crazy Joe on the grid again.

The suspension and particularly the length of suspension was very harsh imo, he fairly clearly wasn’t looking for performance enhancement if this can even be achieved by such methods in GP bike racing.
 
Not unhappy to see Crazy Joe on the grid again.

The suspension and particularly the length of suspension was very harsh imo, he fairly clearly wasn’t looking for performance enhancement if this can even be achieved by such methods in GP bike racing.
“Crazy Joe”? Eh eh , , , that’s a tha nick-a-name the “racist press” applied to New York mobster Crazy Joe Gallo. As a guy who is half Italian Ima very very offended! We’re not all Mafiosi and organ grinders with monkeys! Va fangool! LOL.
 
I read that Andrea Illanone has been given the green light for the vr46 wildcards. Could be interesting, the man has a point to prove and a big scar on his professional history. Expect some hard charging towards every cameralens and pressroom in sight.
If he races, he'll have his own presser, for him to shine
 
Anyone else catch Marc at the presser put 100% of the blame for Bezzitchies crash with Mav on him? He said aero or no aero it would have happened. Martin also said he was passed by Marc in the same manner and nothing happened.

I just watched it because of your post. I do not think Marc was being dishonest in any way...BUT...was he also jabbing back to get under certain people's skin?
 
I just watched it because of your post. I do not think Marc was being dishonest in any way...BUT...was he also jabbing back to get under certain people's skin?
I agree its hard to say if he would have said that about other riders but I think he is right. After watching sundays race and paying close attention to turn 1 I tend to also think aero was no factor. Martin agreed Pecco also did but he was a little more kurt about it.
 
I agree its hard to say if he would have said that about other riders but I think he is right. After watching sundays race and paying close attention to turn 1 I tend to also think aero was no factor. Martin agreed Pecco also did but he was a little more kurt about it.
Unusual for Marc to make such a comment even if it is true. Bezzecchi has called him a dirty and dangerous rider on numerous occasions however.
 
Unusual for Marc to make such a comment even if it is true. Bezzecchi has called him a dirty and dangerous rider on numerous occasions however.
Very rare but you can only poke the bear some many times before it fights back. Somewhere in a rocking chair in Italy an old man is rocking back and forth repeating 2015 over and over while watching this press conference.
 
I listened to the post race podcast from the-race, and Simon Patterson hinted that Vinales moved under braking so I watching the incident again. Vinales came back to the racing line WELL before the braking zone. Bezzechi messed up pure and simple. Don't forget he has form for this, Silverstone 2023

1729797134865.png
 
I listened to the post race podcast from the-race, and Simon Patterson hinted that Vinales moved under braking so I watching the incident again. Vinales came back to the racing line WELL before the braking zone. Bezzechi messed up pure and simple. Don't forget he has form for this, Silverstone 2023

View attachment 15072
It would be tough to move under braking at the speed of that corner. It could throw the rider off line and off track. I.E. Bezz braking after he started to lean cause him to snafu imo.
 
I found it interesting, thought somewhat predictable, that the trio said that aero was not to blame for the Maverick - Marco crash.

When they talk about the tyres, it's the aero.
When they talk about the difficulties in overtaking, it's the aero.
When it's safety, it's the track layout...
 
Anyone else catch Marc at the presser put 100% of the blame for Bezzitchies crash with Mav on him? He said aero or no aero it would have happened. Martin also said he was passed by Marc in the same manner and nothing happened.

I'll have to have a look. Also mentioned on another thread you can watch the race from a choice of cameras. Didn't know you could do that. Keen to try.
 
Very rare but you can only poke the bear some many times before it fights back. Somewhere in a rocking chair in Italy an old man is rocking back and forth repeating 2015 over and over while watching this press conference.

I don't reckon he needs to respond to the ranch hands. He is smoking them on the track and has snared the best seat in the house for next season. That is some large crystals of rock salt buried in the wound as it is.
 
I found it interesting, thought somewhat predictable, that the trio said that aero was not to blame for the Maverick - Marco crash.

When they talk about the tyres, it's the aero.
When they talk about the difficulties in overtaking, it's the aero.
When it's safety, it's the track layout...
None of which precludes it being the Bezzecchi on this particular occasion.

Those commenting were also a rider in MM who rode in close proximity to the back of Martin’s bike for many laps without aero causing him to crash into Martin at 150 mph, and a rider in Martin who as he says was passed by Marquez in a similar fashion and also managed to avoid crashing into the back of him at 150 mph due to aero.
 
My point still stands that I think Bezzecchi was going to try and undercut Vinales heading into T1 and got it completely wrong. Probably didn't expect the gap to close between the two as much and as quickly as it did, and panic braked in the process which was all it took to run straight into the back of Vinales. Bezzecchi is not a rider that I've ever watched and thought he had the requisite skill set to be pulling off moves like the one Martin pulled off on Marc heading into T1 to retake P1 for the short time he had it. I'm not saying aero isn't an issue by any means since I've been screaming about it since at least 2017 when the winglets started showing up on the Ducati fairings. I just don't think it was the issue that it was made out to be in that particular crash since no one else in the sprint race or grand prix seemed to have this issue, and god knows there was some really close following riders heading into T1.

Frankly, I think Bezzecchi is a moron who happened to luck out with a few race wins last season due to the GP23 being a somewhat more difficult bike to come to grips with than the GP22 ever was. Good on Marc for saying what he did about the crash even if it was for the purposes of taking a dig. The VR46 camp needs to shut the .... up. If they put as much effort into racecraft as they do their incessant whining, who knows, things might look a little better for them on the championship points table.
 

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