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lol "gave it a go".

Yamaha had enough of his .... in 2010 and wanted him gone.

He burned the HRC bridge years before.

Ducati was the only factory team left he would go to that had in his mind a chance of delivering race victories and a title...after all Stoner won races, but was slacking off according to he and his sidekick. Giving it a go would have been going to Tech 3 or LCR or Gresini...you know, satellite teams.

But in any rate, I don't give him credit for "giving it a go". He was never going to take a satellite bike since his ego is too much and he believes he should never have to mill about on common machinery....and Suzuki wasn't competitive.

So the choice was always going to be Ducati since the only other choice would have been to retire from MotoGP.

This wasn't Michael Jordan switching to baseball as that was going to a completely different sport altogether. Not even remotely close to being an analogy.

Funny thing is in the normal course of racing, after the Ducati thing failed miserably, he would have found himself unable to get a ride on anything other than satellite bike as so many world champions found themselves in years past unless of course...they retired on top. Anyway, he was given a Dorna bailout in the summer of 2012, and the Yamaha race team basically got sandbagged by the idiots in Yamaha marketing and got stuck with him for 2013 thru present.

If he really gave Ducati a go, and was serious about it, he wouldn't have been running to get bailed out of it, in less than 2 years. That suggests a man unwilling to do the legitimate hard work needed to turn things around. People like to say or insinuate Ducati declined under Stoner, which most reasonable people know to not be true, however Ducati's increase in performance is not due to Rossi. After all he cut loose and ran when the going got tough.

His feedback may be good from a purely technical standpoint, and I don't disagree that he does give good feedback. But the flipside of that coin is that he has proven to be a cancer to both HRC and Yamaha. That's something you can't say about a number of top riders. Let's not lose sight of the fact that this is the guy who wanted a wall put up between he and Lorenzo in the garage because he couldn't handle the realization he was no longer the fastest rider on the team.

Even I disagree with some of this.

I think Yamaha would have been happy to keep Rossi after Jorge's 2010 championship if he had accepted dual number one status. I think he was miffed about this because he thought perhaps with some justification he had brought Yamaha from nowhere, and insulted by equal money which meant a pay cut for him when he considered he brought most of the sponsorship. He also had an obsession which would seem to continue with matching Ago's records for both premier class championships and total wins, which he thought would be best served by being a sole number 1 rider; I am led to believe the Nastro Azzurro set up he had in his early premier class career is actually his preference. The wall in 2008 was mandated by him and Jorge having tyres supplied by different tyre manufacturers; I don't specifically recall but he may have continued this by his own choice in 2009. I do still wonder as I did at the time whether he also might have told Yamaha at some stage that he was going to retire then changed his mind.

I think Uncle Carmelo may have had a role in the switch to Ducati, he was said to be romancing senior Ducati management over games of golf and encouraging them to concentrate on premier class gp racing rather than WSBK, and doubtless thought a coup similar to the Rossi to Yamaha move in 2004 which he reputedly also encouraged and possibly even financially supported was easily achievable.

The problem of course was that the belief that the Ducati was a superior bike being let down by the flaky Stoner who had been mentally broken by Rossi, which somehow had spread from bopperdom to become all pervasive including even at Ducati, was not actually true.

I have less time for Rossi now than I have had at any previous time in his career, but I still think however much Uncle Carmelo may have encouraged Yamaha that Rossi was the best available rider for that seat in 2013, particularly given that an Asparagus brother had previously been touted as the next in line, and that Rossi has contributed more to the development/quality of the bike than any other rider would have done.
 
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Even I disagree with some of this.

I think Yamaha would have been happy to keep Rossi after Jorge's 2010 championship if he had accepted dual number one status. I think he was miffed about this because he thought perhaps with some justification he had brought Yamaha from nowhere, and insulted by equal money which meant a pay cut for him when he considered he brought most of the sponsorship. He also had an obsession which would seem to continue with matching Ago's records for both premier class championships and total wins, which he thought would be best served by being a sole number 1 rider; I am led to believe the Nastro Azzurro set up he had in his early premier class career is actually his preference. The wall in 2008 was mandated by him and Jorge having tyres supplied by different tyre manufacturers; I don't specifically recall but he may have continued this by his own choice in 2009. I do still wonder as I did at the time whether he also might have told Yamaha at some stage that he was going to retire then changed his mind.

I think Uncle Carmelo may have had a role in the switch to Ducati, he was reputed to be romancing senior Ducati management over games of golf and encouraging them to concentrate on premier class gp racing rather than WSBK, and doubtless thought a coup similar to the Rossi to Yamaha move in 2004 which he reputedly also encouraged and possibly even financially supported was easily achievable.

The problem of course was that the belief that the Ducati was a superior bike being let down by the flaky Stoner who had been mentally broken by Rossi, which somehow had spread from bopperdom to become all pervasive including even at Ducati, was not actually true.

I have less time for Rossi now than I have had at any previous time in his career, but I still think however much Uncle Carmelo may have encouraged Yamaha that Rossi was the best available rider for that seat in 2013, particularly given that an Asparagus brother had previously been touted as the next in line, and that Rossi has contributed more to the development/quality of the bike than any other rider would have done.


You're right as usual Michael [emoji3]
The wall and data sharing ban was introduced with the different tyres and Valentino insisted on it staying like that right up until the time that Jorge started beating him. Once this happened it was reported that VR and JB demanded to see their team mate's data, this was met by Ramon Forcada refusing point blank as he felt it was an act of bigotry, why should he help men who refused to help him?
It was also written in Jorge's biography that he was proud to join Yamaha and eager to befriend Valentino and learn from the master, hopefully forming a super team of the future as Yamaha had sold to him when they courted him for his signature. When he met Valentino in private, he was rude and dismissive of his young team mate, making it very clear he didn't want Jorge as his team mate and was angry at Yamaha for signing him, something Valentino admitted many years later.
Valentino launched his usual mental barrage on Lorenzo, stating he was arrogant and had no real talent, he was simply profiting from the bike that he, Valentino had built. This was of course lapped up by the press and the yellow horde, making Lorenzo a figure of hate and derision just like Casey, Sete and Max. Now it's Marquez's turn to get it from Valentino's followers.
Lorenzo states in his book that he wasn't being arrogant but was simply scared to speak with the press in his younger days as everything he said was twisted into some sort of "war" with Valentino, so he decided not to speak at all if possible, then he was branded arrogant.
It speaks volumes that Lorenzo, having suffered from a young age should publicly welcome Valentino back to Yamaha and refused to knock him when he was down. Is he a really nice guy who forgives, or was he scared of any reprisals that may come?
Valentino has proven that away from the cameras and publicity, he is prepared to be as nasty and vindictive as it takes to try and destabilise the mind of any rider who challenges him on track, it's a mystery to me how so many fans around the world fail to see this, only seeing the fun loving kid who once brought laughter and fun to MotoGP. I hope he mellows when he retires and doesn't carry his sinister nature into management. The sport can do without it...
 
You're right as usual Michael [emoji3]
The wall and data sharing ban was introduced with the different tyres and Valentino insisted on it staying like that right up until the time that Jorge started beating him. Once this happened it was reported that VR and JB demanded to see their team mate's data, this was met by Ramon Forcada refusing point blank as he felt it was an act of bigotry, why should he help men who refused to help him?
It was also written in Jorge's biography that he was proud to join Yamaha and eager to befriend Valentino and learn from the master, hopefully forming a super team of the future as Yamaha had sold to him when they courted him for his signature. When he met Valentino in private, he was rude and dismissive of his young team mate, making it very clear he didn't want Jorge as his team mate and was angry at Yamaha for signing him, something Valentino admitted many years later.
Valentino launched his usual mental barrage on Lorenzo, stating he was arrogant and had no real talent, he was simply profiting from the bike that he, Valentino had built. This was of course lapped up by the press and the yellow horde, making Lorenzo a figure of hate and derision just like Casey, Sete and Max. Now it's Marquez's turn to get it from Valentino's followers.
Lorenzo states in his book that he wasn't being arrogant but was simply scared to speak with the press in his younger days as everything he said was twisted into some sort of "war" with Valentino, so he decided not to speak at all if possible, then he was branded arrogant.
It speaks volumes that Lorenzo, having suffered from a young age should publicly welcome Valentino back to Yamaha and refused to knock him when he was down. Is he a really nice guy who forgives, or was he scared of any reprisals that may come?
Valentino has proven that away from the cameras and publicity, he is prepared to be as nasty and vindictive as it takes to try and destabilise the mind of any rider who challenges him on track, it's a mystery to me how so many fans around the world fail to see this, only seeing the fun loving kid who once brought laughter and fun to MotoGP. I hope he mellows when he retires and doesn't carry his sinister nature into management. The sport can do without it...

As you no doubt realise I am a big time Jorge fan. Tougher than any of them, even aside from his talent.

I do remember remarking in 2009 that Jorge and crew were starting to come up with a superior set up on some weekends, to everyone's surprise, not least Rossi and JB.
 
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So Rossi vetoed Stoner signing to Yamaha and then was angry at Yamaha for signing Lorenzo? It really makes me believe that Rossi is actually quite insecure and doesn't believe in his talent like some of his followers do.
 
As you no doubt realise I am a big time Jorge fan. Tougher than any of them, even aside from his talent.

I've never been a massive Lorenzo fan but he really is winning me over with his ability to perform under pressure this year and in 2013. Not to mention he is the rider every kid or trackday enthusiast should try to ride like.
 
I always thought he and Livio were very close.
Him and Nakamoto are very close, but I never knew there was tensions between him and Suppo. It was Suppo who was instrumental in getting Stoner to Honda even when they already had 2 contracted riders.obviously wasn't frosty enough to keep them from working together
 
You're right as usual Michael [emoji3]
The wall and data sharing ban was introduced with the different tyres and Valentino insisted on it staying like that right up until the time that Jorge started beating him. Once this happened it was reported that VR and JB demanded to see their team mate's data, this was met by Ramon Forcada refusing point blank as he felt it was an act of bigotry, why should he help men who refused to help him?
It was also written in Jorge's biography that he was proud to join Yamaha and eager to befriend Valentino and learn from the master, hopefully forming a super team of the future as Yamaha had sold to him when they courted him for his signature. When he met Valentino in private, he was rude and dismissive of his young team mate, making it very clear he didn't want Jorge as his team mate and was angry at Yamaha for signing him, something Valentino admitted many years later.
Valentino launched his usual mental barrage on Lorenzo, stating he was arrogant and had no real talent, he was simply profiting from the bike that he, Valentino had built. This was of course lapped up by the press and the yellow horde, making Lorenzo a figure of hate and derision just like Casey, Sete and Max. Now it's Marquez's turn to get it from Valentino's followers.
Lorenzo states in his book that he wasn't being arrogant but was simply scared to speak with the press in his younger days as everything he said was twisted into some sort of "war" with Valentino, so he decided not to speak at all if possible, then he was branded arrogant.
It speaks volumes that Lorenzo, having suffered from a young age should publicly welcome Valentino back to Yamaha and refused to knock him when he was down. Is he a really nice guy who forgives, or was he scared of any reprisals that may come?
Valentino has proven that away from the cameras and publicity, he is prepared to be as nasty and vindictive as it takes to try and destabilise the mind of any rider who challenges him on track, it's a mystery to me how so many fans around the world fail to see this, only seeing the fun loving kid who once brought laughter and fun to MotoGP. I hope he mellows when he retires and doesn't carry his sinister nature into management. The sport can do without it...
If I were Lorenzo, I would use this opportunity to kick Rossi to the curb and show him once in for all that his history of being an incorrigible prick has come home to roost. Simply tell Yamaha I will not sign with Yamaha if Rossi is to be my teammate.
 
Yeah but if he does that, they'll just tell him to take a walk and replace him with their up and coming superstar Pol Espargaro. Oh, wait......
 
Rins would be the choice, but no way Yamaha lets Lorenzo walk in favor of Rossi at this stage in their prospective careers. Ain't happening.
 
Rins would be the choice, but no way Yamaha lets Lorenzo walk in favor of Rossi at this stage in their prospective careers. Ain't happening.

Depends. Rossi sells a hell of a lot more bikes than Lorenzo does. From a sporting perspective, Lin Jarvis may prefer to retain Lorenzo. From a marketing perspective, Yamaha Corporate may want to keep Rossi.

This could all be moot, anyway. If Lorenzo builds a big lead in the early races, and Rossi is having trouble manhandling the Hondas, Rossi may decide to call it a day.
 
Depends. Rossi sells a hell of a lot more bikes than Lorenzo does.
From a sporting perspective, Lin Jarvis may prefer to retain Lorenzo. From a marketing perspective, Yamaha Corporate may want to keep Rossi.


I don't think it's the bike sales as much as its the TV revenue. Of course it's one in the same in the sense of marketing, as VR on a Yamaha is an ongoing infomercial for both the manufacturer and more importantly for Dorna. The fact is Rossi is infinitely more important to Dorna than he is to Yamaha! From a Yamaha's perspective, let's not lose sight that after all the current MotoGP champion did it on a Yamaha. Rossi's importance is more in terms of staying power for the League. Yamaha are going to sell about as many bikes with or without Rossi, but when he's not the face on the podium the ratings take a dip with respectively great effect for Dorna's market of GP.

This could all be moot, anyway. If Lorenzo builds a big lead in the early races, and Rossi is having trouble manhandling the Hondas, Rossi may decide to call it a day.


Thanks for your input Kropo. Kinda the way I see it (granted I'm a cynic) but judging from what I've read of interviews with Jarvis including past dealings (again my bias) it sound to me like Lin will be in a position to 'negotiate' with Lorenzo to stay while he will accept or accept whatever Rossi (and his sport agent) put on the table. In other words, Rossi will dicktate the terms of "negotiation" in contrast to Lorenzo where the 'negotiation' will be a bit more in the classic sense.

Rossi said he will stay as long as he can fight for the "important positions", those of course are 1-2-3. Which is likely given the 1:4 nature of the championship (save of course what happens with Ducati) then he may retire only if he's off the podium (again, unlikely). Fact is, its all stacked in his favor to stay with the added luck that Honda have not built an engine that Marquez is comfortable with. I'm just hoping Honda get their .... together so we can see Marquez consistently beat Rossi. That's what I'm hoping for this year. I like to see when after a race VR rides into the garage with everyone clapping.
 

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Depends. Rossi sells a hell of a lot more bikes than Lorenzo does. From a sporting perspective, Lin Jarvis may prefer to retain Lorenzo. From a marketing perspective, Yamaha Corporate may want to keep Rossi.

This could all be moot, anyway. If Lorenzo builds a big lead in the early races, and Rossi is having trouble manhandling the Hondas, Rossi may decide to call it a day.

Five years ago I might agree, but at this time I can't see Yamaha taking a stance that would almost assure they did not have a rider with a reasonable shot at winning a title. As far as Rossi, him leaving on his terms depends on what he considers meaningful finish's. Is an occasional win when circumstances play in his favor, or consistent podiums but out of the title chase meaningful finishes. I think they are , and I think he would think so as well, meaning he will not leave on his terms but will be forced out to make room for Rins or lose him.
 

Just as I've been saying, it wasn't Marquez but his chickenshit conniving entourage. In fact I'd say his most egregious missteps was on account of this conniving gutless entourage who sent him out on that faithful lap where he mindlessly came close to murdering the Thai rider wilst almost committing suicide. Marc is not this mastermind Machiavellian, just a kid that wants to go balls out every time on the track (sometimes single-minded thoughtless enthusiasm I would say, which is why I had issues with him in the past). Its why I reject this weak mind-reading notion that he ...... with Tossi at Sepang. If he was bothered by Rossi’s accusations he wasn't about retaliating by ....... with Rossi but rather by BEATING Rossi. Big difference, a reality confused and misunderstood even by some of the great minds of GP who based their opinion of the event on nothing more than faith...decidedly against all the factual evidence of that event no less!

"But I didn't retire because I wasn't [competitive] anymore." CS

On a related note, someone said they gave credit to Rossi for competing so long, to which I responded, you would too if you got massive support from everyone involved, from the fans to the league to every vendor in between. Consider that the Cult was ready to eat Iannone's children for the crime of racing. Ducati threw everything at the problem while Rossi was there two years, no stone left unturned, even adopting the Japanese cookie-cutter chassis system. Meanwhile Stoner was fighting his own team to listen to his advice.
 
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To be fair you could see why Marquez' team didn't want Stoner on the bike at COT, who'd want a wildcard on the grid who could potentially take points from the top rider in the team. There's nothing Machiavellian about it, Barry Sheene always made sure his teammates knew they were there to help him not beat him or made sure they had lesser equipment to him. Rainey and Doohan used to .... with their teammates too, probabaly Gardner, definitely Rossi, Pedrosa with Hayden.
 
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I agree, AntG my friend, i can see "why" Marc's handlers didn't want Casey Stoner on a RCV grid up next to the lad. Its a compelling concern, but it's also chickenshit. Like Rossi not wanting to be teammate with Stoner or Lorenzo; however, Edwards will do just fine thank you. Colin 'Marc didn't respect his elder' Edwards.
 
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I don't think it's the bike sales as much as its the TV revenue.


Rossi helps sell a bajillion scooters in Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, Vietnam. If Rossi retires with Yamaha, Yamaha get a piece of that action ad infinitum. If he leaves Yamaha (he won't, but never mind) we are talking about many millions in potentially lost revenue.

Oh, and Emilio Alzamora. Just so your figure of hate has a name and a face.
 
To be fair you could see why Marquez' team didn't want Stoner on the bike at COT, who'd want a wildcard on the grid who could potentially take points from the top rider in the team. There's nothing Machiavellian about it, Barry Sheene always made sure his teammates knew they were there to help him not beat him or made sure they had lesser equipment to him. Rainey and Doohan used to .... with their teammates too, probabaly Gardner, definitely Rossi, Pedrosa with Hayden.

I can actually see reasons why the wider HRC team didn't think Stoner replacing Dani was a good idea, although doubtless Alzamora's main game is to ensure MM's absolute primacy in general.

MM was throwing the bike down the road over-riding the bike against the existing riders, the last thing HRC probably thought they needed with MM not eliminated from the championship was an ex-world champion team-mate just for a race or 2 to give him even further motivation to do so.
 
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Rossi helps sell a bajillion scooters in Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, Vietnam. If Rossi retires with Yamaha, Yamaha get a piece of that action ad infinitum. If he leaves Yamaha (he won't, but never mind) we are talking about many millions in potentially lost revenue.

Oh, and Emilio Alzamora. Just so your figure of hate has a name and a face.

Did their sales drop when he rode for Ducati in 2011 and 2012?
 

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