The fastest engineer ever

AntG said:

Do racing results and popularity of racers really contribute that much to motorcycle sales? I know the old "win on sunday, sell on monday" saying but most of the bikers I know couldn't give a toss about racing.

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Yes they do when your market is 100 million impressionable youth, and not a maturing western market.

Mick D said:

Yes they do when your market is 100 million impressionable youth, and not a maturing western market.

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I have no doubt VR has massive recognition in Asia in comparison with everyone else.

This is why I have a theory with Yamaha anyway that he told them he was going to retire, they made a decision Jorge was their future, then he changed his mind.

I still don't see that premier class GP bike racing is mainly motivated by commercial concerns for Honda and Yamaha though, as I have said I think it is more some arcane Japanese form of ritual combat for them. Honda were certainly more than prepared to completely wipe Rossi regardless of commercial concerns, and Max Biaggi obviously deeply offended them to an even greater degree.

moto vudu said:

Lorenzo could adjust if the team adjusted the bike to suit his style. Remember how Lorenzo struggled trying to adjust to tires that lacked edge grip... he missed the podium almost every time!

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And when Rossi couldn't ride wuick enough to get the podium last year, he knocked another rider off

JPSLotus said:

I'm also going to add something else that is also lost in the sales numbers increases in Southeast Asia...the people there are in the upwardly mobile stage as is the case with China. Only China is further along in the consumer economy than Indonesia, Vietnam, Thailand, etc. But the point being is that as the modern world infiltrates more and more in those countries, standards of living will improve to create a middle class, and obviously what comes with that is disposal income to buy 2-wheeled transportation. Anyone who truly believes Valentino Rossi is responsible for some sales boom has had their thought process so fully doctored, that they can't even comprehend the world is much larger than one man.

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Can you buy a Yamaha scooter in Beijing? In Shanghai?

Marketing is voodoo, and in truth (as far as I can tell) nobody really understands how it works. Even when companies try to measure the effect of campaigns as accurately as possible, you are trying to assess the effect of a single input into a massively complex system with millions of variables you don't control.

As a purely hypothetical thought experiment:

Let's say Rossi signs with Suzuki and sales of Suzuki scooters go up in Indonesia. Is this down to Rossi?

Does it take account of the relative strength of the dealer network in Indonesia. How did this change?

Did Yamaha or Honda suffer a serious incident which affected their image? Did a popular Honda scooter suddenly start blowing valves every five kilometers?

Did Indonesia's biggest pop star publicly buy a Suzuki and start hooning around Jakarta on it?

Did Suzuki just open a production plant in Indonesia, which helped bring the price of their bikes down.

Did Suzuki's latest scooter have one particularly nifty feature on it which allowed the youth of Indonesia to get all goofy and go customizing mad? Was this feature present on Hondas and Yamahas?

Did a prominent Indonesian cleric declare that his followers should buy Suzukis?

A trillion factors to be accounted for. That's not to say that Rossi going to Suzuki would not have a net positive effect on Suzuki sales, it's just that it is hard to measure. Public perception of a brand can change instantaneously, and it can take years to turn around. If Rossi went to Suzuki, you might see changes in sales figures the next month, the next year, or maybe only three years down the road.

Like I said, marketing is voodoo.

Mick D said:

Research figures are great for analysis from afar but if you lived here and interacted with bike aficionados you wouldn't question the influence of Vale on brand recognition in SE Asia.

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Oh, so anecdotal evidence carries the day now?

Dr No said:

Can you buy a Yamaha scooter in Beijing? In Shanghai?

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I'm curious, do Beijing and Shanghai comprise the totality of China?

Wait, Rossi is moving to Suzuki...?

Jumkie said:

Wait, Rossi is moving to Suzuki...?

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He is, if you take some of the more sensationalist and, erm, imaginative Spanish websites seriously.

Kropotkin said:

He is, if you take some of the more sensationalist and, erm, imaginative Spanish websites seriously.

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If Vinales were to jump to HRC next year, and Rossi finds himself out at Yamaha, the GSXRR might be the best bike he can get on.

There is no way Rossi is pushed out at Yamaha. Won't happen. Rossi stays or stays on his own terms. If he decides to leave, it will be for retirement, then expect the greatest send off similar to dynastic monarch pomp and circumstance seen in the early 1900s Europe.

Jumkie said:

There is no way Rossi is pushed out at Yamaha. Won't happen. Rossi stays or stays on his own terms. If he decides to leave, it will be for retirement, then expect the greatest send off similar to dynastic monarch pomp and circumstance seen in the early 1900s Europe.

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The Marlboro Man who disparaged Stoner shoved Fernando Alonso right out of Ferrari when he came in as team principal during the 2014 season. I guess I always believe that anything is possible even when you least expect it to guys getting kicked out of teams.

But the mention of early 1900s Europe makes me think of...

JPSLotus said:

But the mention of early 1900s Europe makes me think of...

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Last October and November convinced me one in every hundred Rossi fans is a Gravilo Princip in the making.

JPSLotus said:

Oh, so anecdotal evidence carries the day now?

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No you ....... ..... But if you live amongst the people to whom your figures relate and see that every ....... 14 to 30yr old's modified bike and half the unmodified ones have 46 or the doctor or his ....... dog stickers on them and you have half a brain to understand the influence of that time life on ones taste in music, hairstyles, bikes, cars, girls, beer, everything, then you might just, barely, understand what a big ....... deal Rossi's influence is here as opposed to monthly or yearly sales figure trends. Retard.

Mick D said:

No you ....... ..... But if you live amongst the people to whom your figures relate and see that every ....... 14 to 30yr old's modified bike and half the unmodified ones have 46 or the doctor or his ....... dog stickers on them and you have half a brain to understand the influence of that time life on ones taste in music, hairstyles, bikes, cars, girls, beer, everything, then you might just, barely, understand what a big ....... deal Rossi's influence is here as opposed to monthly or yearly sales figure trends. Retard.

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Hahaha, Jesus, this is angry.

I saw it a reasonable question Mick.

Gotcha gotcha.

Mick D said:

No you ....... ..... But if you live amongst the people to whom your figures relate and see that every ....... 14 to 30yr old's modified bike and half the unmodified ones have 46 or the doctor or his ....... dog stickers on them and you have half a brain to understand the influence of that time life on ones taste in music, hairstyles, bikes, cars, girls, beer, everything, then you might just, barely, understand what a big ....... deal Rossi's influence is here as opposed to monthly or yearly sales figure trends. Retard.

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Oh now Mick, what's the matter, your 'gotcha' post finally blew up in your face?

Numbers...numbers...still not seeing any.

Maybe you can give me something beyond anecdotal evidence.

Total 2011 motorcycle demand in the Thai market grew 8.7% from the previous year, to 2,007 thousand units, as a strong economy boosted by solid exports absorbed the economic damage caused by the flooding.

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Doesn't look like a Yamaha to me, and Yamaha sales still grew 8.7% with 'The Doctor' on the Desmosedici. I'm pretty sure the enterprising youth of Thailand all knew the legend was at Ducati.

JPSLotus said:

Oh now Mick, what's the matter, your 'gotcha' post finally blew up in your face?

Numbers...numbers...still not seeing any.

Maybe you can give me something...

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Ah the irony, Mick's MO usually demand hard numbers, links, and proofs.

Mick, you seem to have a pulse on the SE Asia region. Honest and curious question, is it true Thailand has a weird obsession with images of Hitler?

Mick D said:

No you ....... ..... But if you live amongst the people to whom your figures relate and see that every ....... 14 to 30yr old's modified bike and half the unmodified ones have 46 or the doctor or his ....... dog stickers on them and you have half a brain to understand the influence of that time life on ones taste in music, hairstyles, bikes, cars, girls, beer, everything, then you might just, barely, understand what a big ....... deal Rossi's influence is here as opposed to monthly or yearly sales figure trends. Retard.

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Popping stickers of your favorite rider on your scooter is not the same as saying he is the reason they purchased the scooter to begin with. The regions you live in have a long history of using scooters as their main mode of transportation. The majority of those sells are going to happen with or without Rossi.

povol said:

Popping stickers of your favorite rider on your scooter is not the same as saying he is the reason they purchased the scooter to begin with. The regions you live in have a long history of using scooters as their main mode of transportation. The majority of those sells are going to happen with or without Rossi.

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MickD will tell you differently now because he lives there.

Just accept his word in spite of all evidence to the contrary, things are better this way.

JPSLotus said:

I'm curious, do Beijing and Shanghai comprise the totality of China?

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Of course not.
But back to the point. Try getting a Shanghai plate on a new Scooter and you'll realise why nearly the scoots there are battery powered.
Doesn't bode well for any growth in bike sport enthusiasm.