Round 5: 2024 Michelin Grand Prix de France - Le Mans Bugatti Circuit

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I really want to see Martin go to Aprilia to see if he is as good as he looks or if the bike is that good.
I said before but I think the Aprilia's true potential is not met by the current crop of riders employed. Maverick can be fast on his day, but he's not all that. Maybe Martín is what they need to be a true contender, or maybe Martín has also been flattered by the Ducati and Aprilia's true level will remain a mystery...

I would've loved to see Fabio Quartararo on an Aprilia.
 
This was pretty refreshingly honest from Pecco.

Nobody is fastest at every circuit and he was the fastest and won at the last circuit. Good show here tok both the other two had a bit more. Interesting he commented that he was struggling with front feel at the corner Marc got him on. Makes sense as Marc did come from a long way back.
The way MM caught up to Martin and Bagnaia showed at that part of the race that MM was way faster, the only question was whether MM had used up his tyres and the pass on Bagnaia show ed that he still had some tyre.

The question is what pace did Martin have? Martin decided to overtake Bagnaia when he saw how quickly MM was catching. Did Martin just keep a safe margin to the finish or did he have more speed if he needed it?
 
What we saw yesterday was Pecco being passed and accepting the fact.
Not sure about him accepting the fact. It was a well timed overtake only a few corners from the end. Were it a lap or two earlier I am sure Pecco would have been back at him attempting to pass.
 
The way MM caught up to Martin and Bagnaia showed at that part of the race that MM was way faster, the only question was whether MM had used up his tyres and the pass on Bagnaia show ed that he still had some tyre.

The question is what pace did Martin have? Martin decided to overtake Bagnaia when he saw how quickly MM was catching. Did Martin just keep a safe margin to the finish or did he have more speed if he needed it?
I reckon he had used a fair bit of tyre and wasn't capable of riding away.
The move was well timed it seemed.
Had he started higher on the grid he had the speed to race them the entire way it seemed to me. Great result from 13th but needs to start closer to the front.
 
I reckon he had used a fair bit of tyre and wasn't capable of riding away.
The move was well timed it seemed.
Had he started higher on the grid he had the speed to race them the entire way it seemed to me. Great result from 13th but needs to start closer to the front.
Yes, good weekend if you are an MM fan but as you and I both say Martin didn’t put him 13th on the grid, that was his own doing.

It is a little tough imo on Martin who really couldn’t have done anything more to focus on MM ahead of him.
 
He has made statements in the past that back my opinion. He has stated that he doesn't think satellite bikes should be as fast as factory ones. He has blamed other riders for his mistakes. He has not owned up to his own actions off the track. He comes from the ranch were telling ........ to obtain an upper hand comes natural. He is more like Rossi than some people notice because he hasn't kicked anyone yet. But he has knocked a lot of other riders off their bikes taking no blame. He has more than proven to me that his words mean nothing. His silver tongue and hand shakes are an act. You can't prove what he said wasn't in malice as much as I can prove it is. But I'll go by his track record.
I wouldn’t be so tough on him for the comment about other Ducatis being too good, perhaps he should have thought it rather than said it, but that attitude was pretty much shared by two of the top 4 riders for titles won in Mick Doohan and Valentino Rossi iit annoyed Mick that other Honda riders were given his set up, I guess because he considered his set up skills were a significant part of his edge. MM doesn’t care, and nor did Stoner, I guess both being confident no one could beat them on the same bike and having riding styles that couldn’t/ can’t be replicated.

What you say about the current Ducatis is true, it seems unlikely they just have chanced upon having the best 8 riders on the grid. On the other hand Pecco has to beat all those Ducatis himself which might make his titles more meritorious rather than less. I have always thought Hayden’s title should be rated more highly rather than rated less because of less dominance over the field given the number of possible winning bike/rider combinations that year.
 
There was 6 Hondas on the grid on and around 2005 all capable of winning. The race I mentioned above was won by a satellite honda. Second and fifth were also satellite bikes. Nicky took third and Dani was the last of all of the hondas. Hondas finished 1st 2nd 3rd(factory) 5th 11th 14th(factory) in Istanbul. The most dominate race I recall Honda ever having. Any given race Stoner, Elias, Melandri, Hayden, and Pedrosa were capable of podiums but not all races. Ducati on the other hand every rider last year was riding above their level due to having by far the best bike on the grid. In all my years I have never seen a bike more dominate than the gp22 23 and 24. One reason is because the Japanese bikes are total trash but that doesn't diminish the dominance of the Ducati right now. You say having 8 bikes on the grid gives the more chance of dominating but it also gives them more chance of riders failing which none of them do. This bike is the most dominate of all time making riders look better than they are, example Luca Marini. Who was fighting for wins last year. Now he can't even beat the other honda riders or anyone for that matter DFL. Any rider on the grid is instantly fighting for podiums on the desmo. Thats unheard of in the history of gp as far as I know. I really want to see Martin go to Aprilia to see if he is as good as he looks or if the bike is that good. Same with Pecco. I'm not sure he could win a single race the last 3 years on any other bike. More bikes does not mean better results.
If the bikes and riders are good, more bikes mean more chances to win. It also may mean less chances for the factory rider to win, depending on the spec of the customer bikes. I don’t really know what differences the current crop of Ducatis have or don’t. I also don’t remember (if I ever knew) what differences there were in the Hondas the year you mention. I find it hard to believe all those Hondas were full factory spec. Perhaps a better way to say that is I find it hard to believe that in prototype racing, Honda is going to give its’ latest and best parts to every bike. Yes, a less spec bike can win if somebody falls off or misses the setup. Otherwise the chances are not as good.
 
If the bikes and riders are good, more bikes mean more chances to win. It also may mean less chances for the factory rider to win, depending on the spec of the customer bikes. I don’t really know what differences the current crop of Ducatis have or don’t. I also don’t remember (if I ever knew) what differences there were in the Hondas the year you mention. I find it hard to believe all those Hondas were full factory spec. Perhaps a better way to say that is I find it hard to believe that in prototype racing, Honda is going to give its’ latest and best parts to every bike. Yes, a less spec bike can win if somebody falls off or misses the setup. Otherwise the chances are not as good.
There was a time including when MM won his first 2 titles when only 4 bikes on the grid, could win, which has never applied to Bagnaia. On the other hand MM probably won at least 2 titles on a bike on which nobody else could win, and also one title hampered by a fairly severe shoulder problem for which he subsequently had post season surgery.
 
Because the years Marc was on the best bike it was by a .... hair at best. At no point in Marcs career was the Honda as dominate as this ducati. You could argue the yamaha was as good or better during that time. And it was short lived. By the time JLo was at honda the bike was not that good. Still competitive I guess. But if Lorenzo wasn't competitive on it , was it really any good? If you say yes then you must be admitting the yamaha that JLo won on was a better bike than Marc's honda at the time. At no point during Marcs time and honda was the RC finishing 1-4. Something this Ducati does regularly. It wasn't the Honda it was the riders, Marc and Dani. Even the great Stoner struggled on the Honda right before Marc joined. So when was this time when Honda was the best bike on the grid?
2002-03 :)
 
After the flag has a bit of silly season in it; Martin has reiterated that he deserves the factory seat and if not then a factory seat elsewhere. Crafer recons Ducati should give MM a factory bike at Gresini
 
After the flag has a bit of silly season in it; Martin has reiterated that he deserves the factory seat and if not then a factory seat elsewhere. Crafer recons Ducati should give MM a factory bike at Gresini

Going to watch it today, but if MM gets a factory bike, it's at the expense of Pramac.

So, solving a lot of issues then would be:

Factory: Bagnaia/Martin (GP25)
Pramac: Bastianini (GP25) Aldeguer (GP24)
Gresini: Marc (GP25), Alex (GP24)
 
I wouldn’t be so tough on him for the comment about other Ducatis being too good, perhaps he should have thought it rather than said it, but that attitude was pretty much shared by two of the top 4 riders for titles won in Mick Doohan and Valentino Rossi iit annoyed Mick that other Honda riders were given his set up, I guess because he considered his set up skills were a significant part of his edge. MM doesn’t care, and nor did Stoner, I guess both being confident no one could beat them on the same bike and having riding styles that couldn’t/ can’t be replicated.

What you say about the current Ducatis is true, it seems unlikely they just have chanced upon having the best 8 riders on the grid. On the other hand Pecco has to beat all those Ducatis himself which might make his titles more meritorious rather than less. I have always thought Hayden’s title should be rated more highly rather than rated less because of less dominance over the field given the number of possible winning bike/rider combinations that year.

I will be that tough on him because he has proven to be the same ilk as Rossi to me. If I ask myself how his comment can benefit him and I can find a reason I will go with it. Like a snake oil salesman. I'm not falling for it. The fact that Rossi also said it is more reason for me to think he has the yellow shades on and a voice in his ear. There were signs that Rossi was who we thought he was since the beginning and I say the same about Pecco.
 
Hello everyone, I just discovered this forum couple days ago and it seems to be cool !

To bounce back of GP25 issue, i think it's a very difficult choice for Ducati because they know what MM does on the GP23. He's way faster than the others. For those who think like Pirro, you just have a look on Q2 this year, laptime record hold by the GP23 are beaten by 3 or 4 tens by the same riders on GP24 this year.
I understand Gigi's embarrassement because he knows that if he gives a GP25, but not red, to MM, the factory team will lost the 25 championship. In the same way JM proved he deserved the sit he wants. Sadly for him in this case, he's not italian.
 
Let me ask everyone this. Who would you rather lose to a competitors factory seat? A young hungry rider or one of the all time greats who has proven he still has it?

I don't think this is a very tough choice. Ducati already has Pecco so young and hungry is already there. Plus he has two championships for them. Ducati doesn't want to lose Marc. They don't want to lose either rider I get that but losing one is more dangerous than the other to the Ducati dominance.
 

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