Mugello 2023

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Ducati may well be the dominate bike for quite some time as they are gathering and sharing data thru the 8 riders. Yamaha only has 2 riders while it appears that Honda doesn't do much sharing between teams. KTM or Aprilia are probably somewhere in-between at a guess

Not sure if the published grid will be as it states, A Marquez has been given the 3 position grid penalty, which wasn't applied to the sprint moving Miller into 3rd on the grid etc etc but the reinstated lap of Marini's that was applied to the sprint hasn't been applied to race and I'm assuming it will, which will put Marini 3rd on the grid.
Ducati also got concessions to develop their bike which Yamaha and Honda didn’t get, as well as iirc the spec ECU also being sourced from the manufacturer they were already using.

In these equalisation formulae perhaps paradoxically once a team gets an advantage that advantage can be entrenched for some time, cf F1.
 
I think Jack wrecked both his and MM’s chances of finishing higher, the clash put both of them behind Ducatis which they can’t get back past on this track.

Dorna’s equalisation formula is working well, the 8 Ducatis do look fairly even.
I don't see that it made much difference, neither had the speed for the podium.
 
Pity MM is on the Honda again next year. I'd like to see what he could do on the KTM.
I see him as significantly faster than Jack over race difference. Not so sure vs Binder. He is impressive.
 
When I heard Jack chose the soft tire, I knew buy lap 3 he'd be a moving road block. Has he not figured out yet that he has zero ability to conserve tires?

.... off honda. The only thing that bike is good for is breaking bones. Just quit.
 
Most boring race this year so far. Nothing else to add to what has been said, Ducati did their job, Honda is ...., KTM is stuck from the beginning of the year, Aprilia going backwards. I wonder what excuse will Fabio use for finishing behind his much slower teammate. Next two circuits shouldn't see a Ducati win, it would be depressing for the other brands otherwise.
 
Oh well . . . super big Binder supporter, but wasn't meant to be.

Remember how back in the day when Marco was on the Duc and we were all. "Man, if Ducati could just get their .... together, it would be so great." Be careful what you wish for.

Say what you will, Pecco didn't do anything wrong today.

Always liked Zarco too, but right from the start it was clear he was destined always to be the bride's maid. That livery tho . . . really tacky. Looks like the side of some hippie van out of Santa Fe New Mexico from the '70s. Total graphic vomit clusterfuck.

All the injuries from non-main-event related crashes are as predicted, screwing up the season, and its still early days.

Alex Marquez and his Kamakazi dives - and going stupid-wide, were more than a little reminiscent of dipshit Bautista's antics in his 250 days. Hard to watch. Especially that move between two riders. Somebody in his camp is telling him he's as good as Marc in his prime. Not!

How sick is everybody of hearing the commentator yap on about KTM being the fastest, in that we all know top speed is not the defining thing he pretends it is?

Ducati's concessions: Given the impact, how long before it's leaked to the press that Paolo has been blowing Carmello? I mean, you can't prove it, but it makes you scratch your head and think a while.

Don't know that Fabio will have any excuses, other than, .... it, why bother to try? Likewise - Marquez should just go out and cruise around in last place for the remainder of the season, or until they let him out of his contract.

Lastly, the BBQ nonsense with the hotdog??? What lame-ass press flack dreamed that up? It's as empty and humorless as Lorenzo's attempts to out-showman Rossi. Pecco and Lorenzo are no doubt talented riders, but when it comes to charisma, they are a flea on the elephant's ass compared to Rossi, who like him or not, had IT in spades. Pecco has the charisma of a door knob.

Sincerely,
Mr. Positivity
 
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When I heard Jack chose the soft tire, I knew buy lap 3 he'd be a moving road block. Has he not figured out yet that he has zero ability to conserve tires?

.... off honda. The only thing that bike is good for is breaking bones. Just quit.
Give them back their own ECU and it'd be a different story.
That is a big factor in them being screwed imo.
They aren't getting if back, so I don't see it being a championship machine anytime soon.

Marquez is riding the wheels off it as usual but he farked up his line on that corner. Well wide.
 
Lastly, the BBQ nonsense with the hotdog??? What lame-ass press flack dreamed that up? It's as empty and humorless as Lorenzo's attempts to out-showman Rossi. Pecco and Lorenzo are no doubt talented riders, but when it comes to charisma, they are a flea on the elephant's ass compared to Rossi, who like him or not, had IT in spades. Pecco has the charisma of a door knob.
The thing that made Jorge interesting (sometimes) is that he didn't shy away from the villain role the press forced on him. He also had more of a personality in terms of going against the grain and being awfully honest whenever he spoke. Pecco doesn't even have anything of that, which makes him one of the most uninteresting champions of all time. And yet, he could have a Doohan-like reign for the coming years. I guess it's better to get used to it.
 
Bagnaia finally does the double (why am I saying this about a MotoGP rider?). He was close at Jerez, but this weekend he finally did the business and put some daylight between himself and Bezzecchi, who sort of rode like a chump this weekend.

Pramac did yeoman's work. Zarco and Martin were on the pace and mistake-free this weekend.

A Marquez has gone from cruising caretaker candidate to the annoying weak crybully kid on the playground that all of the teachers conspire to protect. Penalizing Binder to send a message to the other riders, and then Alex just throws it away in the GP? He ran wide in that turn at least once or twice before. Not sure why he couldn't adjust. I guess he felt pressure from Marini, and he doesn't know how to park it at the apex. Maybe that's not even possible anymore?

Mav and Aleix were not great. The latter less so than the former. Not about Aprilia. Mav had an outside chance for a win at LeMans, but at Mugello the team was struggling to make Q2. Same can be said for KTM, though they are at least making some waves around the podium paying positions.....and they have the fastest bike in MotoGP, which is worth at least 20 championship points or something.

Honda and Yamaha are toast. Both are stuck with former world champions who aren't grasping the new paradigm. Fabio begging for more power. Marc seemingly begging for a bike that can do what his old bikes did (fast and loose). Gonna start another thread with a GPOne article discussing the nightmare scenario creating by impending regulations changes.

Not much meat on the bone at Mugello, which is unfortunate because it can produce compelling races. Oh well, on to the next.
 
The thing that made Jorge interesting (sometimes) is that he didn't shy away from the villain role the press forced on him. He also had more of a personality in terms of going against the grain and being awfully honest whenever he spoke. Pecco doesn't even have anything of that, which makes him one of the most uninteresting champions of all time. And yet, he could have a Doohan-like reign for the coming years. I guess it's better to get used to it.
Not to be contrary for the sake of being contrary, but I think what you describe as "honest" was more about being petulant and being more free than others when it came to airing his laundry in public.
 
Great ride by Bagnaia.... again. Unlike his fellow Ducati riders, he consistently delivers in pace, though admittedly not consistently in finishing. But he put together a great weekend.

After what MM did in the previous race, I was really interested to see how he would do in Mugello, but alas, he crashed even more quickly. Very frustrating it must be for him. Honda will soon have no riders either away, recovering from injury or back, underperforming because of injury. Too many riders are in this position which doesn't bode well for the sport. It was nice seeing Bastianini back on the bike, though he is still in recovery mode and featured little in the sprint/race.

Not impressed with Alex... they say you make your own luck... I firmly believe this when the luck seems to frequently be bad, especially during race weekends.

Miller is really entertaining to watch race, but his ability to manage his tyres enough to maintain consistently good pace through a race distance is more an exception than a rule.

Interesting to see Morbidelli ahead of Fabio this weekend. May be a combination of Morbidelli upping his game and Fabio losing the will to live with the Yamaha's relatively poor performance compared to the front running bikes.
 
Injury situation
  • Mir out
  • Pol wasn't ready, the team will have to wait and by the sounds of it several weeks yet
  • Bastainini doing fantastic on his return
  • Marini straight to Q2 despite his wrist injury, we shall see if he makes it to the races
  • Aleix E straight to Q2 despite the heal injury
Who did I miss on this list?
Oliveira, and Vinales who seems to have left his talent at round 1.
 
Ducati are strong at this track which is not surprising. Binder did well to bring the KTM in 5th, first rider not on a Ducati. MM's gesture after falling off said it all about the difficulties with the Honda. Bastanini did well for his return from injury first race. Miller was Miller as was shown by his race progression, he also makes the races more entertaining. Pramac was the strongest team and that makes 18 podiums for Zarco without a win :)

It's a shame that Pol isn't racing, I'm interested to see how Satellite KTM compares to Factory KTM and we can't judge that based on a rookie and a test rider.

BTW both of the Satellite Honda riders are ahead of both of the Factory Honda riders in the championship, an unusual situation.
 
I don't like typing essays on my phone which is why I don't post much over the weekends. But here goes.

Ducati cup - It says something when most, if not all of the even year old Ducati's are better than many factory bikes. Of course it isn't completely their fault but just as Carmelo made changes in the early 2010's to keep the number of teams up and improve the competitiveness of lower down teams, it may be that a similar case is needed soon (not CRT for sure though!). When Pecco is moaning about customer Ducati bikes more than rival manufacturers, then you know something needs to change.
Talking of pecco, I still don;t like him. He strikes me as a whiner. Glad to see the beast back. He held on well ion the race considering he dropped back in the sprint. Here's hoping he's back to full fitness soon, though because he's out of the championship I fear team orders may be involved if he gets to the front.

Aprilia - Wasted bike. Sure, Aleix hurt his ankle and rode well int he mean time but even before that he seems out of it. He has already confirmed he won;t be renewing his contract (i.e. retire) at the end of next yr, and Pol's crash seems to have affected him (understandably so) to the point where he seems somewhat mentally checked out.
Vinales doing what Vinales always does and always will. Oliveria is injured and was running ahead of him until he crashed. I really fail to see what people see in him. Same goes for Raul Fernandez, people rave about him and he's done .... all in GP except moan.

KTM: Arguably best of the rest. As others have said, Miller does his usual thing of qualifying high then dropping back. Binder the opposite. I personally feel Binders LLP on Saturday was ......... It is up to the rider rejoining the racing line to merge safely and we go back to the inconsistency when Binder is penalised but Millers pass on Marquez wasn't (I'm not saying Miler should have got a LLP, quite the opposite)

Yamaha - I think Fabio has given up, he also likely fired his manager for fixing him with Yamaha for the next 18 months. Morbidelli sounded pissed when someone interviewed him asking if beating his team mate increases his chances of staying next yr. His response was a curt 'Ask Lin!'. All everyone keeps talking about is V4. The suzuki was an inline 4 and won 2 of the last 3 races in 2022. I dont think it's an I4 vs V4 issue, it's a 'Yamaha aren't taking it seriously enough' effort. They have no satellite teams to get data from and seem to have finally realised they cannot live off the VR46 branding forever. The problem is now, who is going to want to pay for their bikes?

Honda - Ugh. Mir seems mentally broken, he was something like a second off Folger in practice before he crashed. Rins has broken his tibia and fibia and Marc (again) crashed out over riding the bike. It sucks that he (and Rins/Mir for that matter) are stuck on a POS. Just like Carmelo saying it was bad for the series to have Rossi not on a competitive bike ("I am Calm'), it's detrimental to have Marc on arguably the shittest bike out there. At least the Yamaha is just slow and not trying to kill its riders. I think his pose in the gravel trap was very, very telling. His patience is close to out. I wouldn't be surprised if he is seeing how the bike goes at Sachsenring. If he struggles there, I think his mind is made up to leave Honda. They haven't made an strides with that bike since early 2022 and in fact seem to have gone backwards. New frame, new swingarm. The thing is, I don't think the frame is the issue, I think it is power delivery. If you watch their respective qualifying laps, the #1 Ducati was on rails, Honda was squirming like a bucking bronco.
There are 3 top riders, 2 of with are GP world champions, who are nowhere because of that bike, and sadly I don't see that changing any time soon.

Finally, Don't bother entering the lottery any time soon Alex M, you used all your luck with that .... your pants moment into T1!
 
I don't like typing essays on my phone which is why I don't post much over the weekends. But here goes.

Ducati cup - It says something when most, if not all of the even year old Ducati's are better than many factory bikes. Of course it isn't completely their fault but just as Carmelo made changes in the early 2010's to keep the number of teams up and improve the competitiveness of lower down teams, it may be that a similar case is needed soon (not CRT for sure though!). When Pecco is moaning about customer Ducati bikes more than rival manufacturers, then you know something needs to change.
Talking of pecco, I still don;t like him. He strikes me as a whiner. Glad to see the beast back. He held on well ion the race considering he dropped back in the sprint. Here's hoping he's back to full fitness soon, though because he's out of the championship I fear team orders may be involved if he gets to the front.

Aprilia - Wasted bike. Sure, Aleix hurt his ankle and rode well int he mean time but even before that he seems out of it. He has already confirmed he won;t be renewing his contract (i.e. retire) at the end of next yr, and Pol's crash seems to have affected him (understandably so) to the point where he seems somewhat mentally checked out.
Vinales doing what Vinales always does and always will. Oliveria is injured and was running ahead of him until he crashed. I really fail to see what people see in him. Same goes for Raul Fernandez, people rave about him and he's done .... all in GP except moan.

KTM: Arguably best of the rest. As others have said, Miller does his usual thing of qualifying high then dropping back. Binder the opposite. I personally feel Binders LLP on Saturday was ......... It is up to the rider rejoining the racing line to merge safely and we go back to the inconsistency when Binder is penalised but Millers pass on Marquez wasn't (I'm not saying Miler should have got a LLP, quite the opposite)

Yamaha - I think Fabio has given up, he also likely fired his manager for fixing him with Yamaha for the next 18 months. Morbidelli sounded pissed when someone interviewed him asking if beating his team mate increases his chances of staying next yr. His response was a curt 'Ask Lin!'. All everyone keeps talking about is V4. The suzuki was an inline 4 and won 2 of the last 3 races in 2022. I dont think it's an I4 vs V4 issue, it's a 'Yamaha aren't taking it seriously enough' effort. They have no satellite teams to get data from and seem to have finally realised they cannot live off the VR46 branding forever. The problem is now, who is going to want to pay for their bikes?

Honda - Ugh. Mir seems mentally broken, he was something like a second off Folger in practice before he crashed. Rins has broken his tibia and fibia and Marc (again) crashed out over riding the bike. It sucks that he (and Rins/Mir for that matter) are stuck on a POS. Just like Carmelo saying it was bad for the series to have Rossi not on a competitive bike ("I am Calm'), it's detrimental to have Marc on arguably the shittest bike out there. At least the Yamaha is just slow and not trying to kill its riders. I think his pose in the gravel trap was very, very telling. His patience is close to out. I wouldn't be surprised if he is seeing how the bike goes at Sachsenring. If he struggles there, I think his mind is made up to leave Honda. They haven't made an strides with that bike since early 2022 and in fact seem to have gone backwards. New frame, new swingarm. The thing is, I don't think the frame is the issue, I think it is power delivery. If you watch their respective qualifying laps, the #1 Ducati was on rails, Honda was squirming like a bucking bronco.
There are 3 top riders, 2 of with are GP world champions, who are nowhere because of that bike, and sadly I don't see that changing any time soon.

Finally, Don't bother entering the lottery any time soon Alex M, you used all your luck with that .... your pants moment into T1!


Good post even though its longer than war and peace. I said as soon as Mir signed with honda that this bike would be the ruin of his gp career. Its a total piece of .... it has been for a very long time. Who is the last rider other than Marc to have any success on it? Stoner his first year on it? I say its been .... since his second season on it. He could'nt ride it. JLo had more success on a terrible ducati than the rc-hiv. Marc is the x factor here. He made the bike look better than it was. Had he been on the m1 he would have won every championship since his first year in gp(until this year.) No one can touch him on equal machinery. Honda right now is at an all time low but it has been a terrible bike for a long time now. Take Marc out of the equation and what has Honda accomplished since Stoner? Absolutely nothing. They need to stop focusing on this year and build and entire new project from the ground up if they want to have any success in the future.
 
Good post even though its longer than war and peace.
No pleasing some people :D
I said as soon as Mir signed with honda that this bike would be the ruin of his gp career. Its a total piece of .... it has been for a very long time. Who is the last rider other than Marc to have any success on it? Stoner his first year on it? I say its been .... since his second season on it. He could'nt ride it. JLo had more success on a terrible ducati than the rc-hiv. Marc is the x factor here. He made the bike look better than it was. Had he been on the m1 he would have won every championship since his first year in gp(until this year.) No one can touch him on equal machinery. Honda right now is at an all time low but it has been a terrible bike for a long time now. Take Marc out of the equation and what has Honda accomplished since Stoner? Absolutely nothing. They need to stop focusing on this year and build and entire new project from the ground up if they want to have any success in the future.
Marc is a once in a generation, if once in a lifetime talent, and he is completely wasted on that Honda right now. Just like Stoner at Ducati, he was propping up a .... bike so much that Rossi and Burgess said they could fix it in 80 seconds and win. How wrong they were proven, that move cost Burgess his career.

Honda would barely be scoring points and certainly not reaching Q2 were it not for Marc. I honestly hope he breaks his contract for 2024.
 
No pleasing some people :D

Marc is a once in a generation, if once in a lifetime talent, and he is completely wasted on that Honda right now. Just like Stoner at Ducati, he was propping up a .... bike so much that Rossi and Burgess said they could fix it in 80 seconds and win. How wrong they were proven, that move cost Burgess his career.

Honda would barely be scoring points and certainly not reaching Q2 were it not for Marc. I honestly hope he breaks his contract for 2024.
Marc's biggest fault is his loyalty to honda. I too hope he breaks his contract. It seems more likely Fabio will than Marc. If they both do, silly season is going to be wild! Add Pedro Accosta to the mix and some people are going to be out of the job. Please please don't Let Pedro go to Honda.
 
Marc's biggest fault is his loyalty to honda. I too hope he breaks his contract. It seems more likely Fabio will than Marc. If they both do, silly season is going to be wild! Add Pedro Accosta to the mix and some people are going to be out of the job. Please please don't Let Pedro go to Honda.
The problem is, there are 4 crap bikes (factory Honda and Yamaha) to fill in that case, with those 4 riders wanting to get onto Ducati, Aprilia and KTM. Unless the rookies like Acosta fill those spots, I don;t see where they can go short of Aprilia/KTM dumping some under contract riders, or starting a new team like Husqvarna.

Personally, I think Aprilia are stupid if they don't drop one of their riders for Marquez if the chance came up. Miller has been a boost for KTM but likewise, I'd happily drop Pol and put him on a factory GasGas if if meant having a Marquez/Binder lineup. With the limited seats and how competitive GP is now, I really dont see why teams are holding onto relics from the past like Pol, Vinales and Aleix. I respect their skills, but other riders would get more out of that machinery.

Ideally? I'd like to see Fabio on the Aprila, and Marc on a factory KTM.
 
I don't like typing essays on my phone which is why I don't post much over the weekends. But here goes........
I agree with your assessments, but it's unclear if the competition have checked out because they don't have the talent to catch Ducati or because the cost-benefit analysis says to stay the course until 2027. We don't know the inner workings of the MSMA meetings, but Pit Berier suggested ride height and aero (as we know them now) will be gone in 2027. The possibility of losing your rider talent as they flee to satellite Ducati teams is real, and it puts the sport in an awkward conundrum.

Continue on the current trajectory, exhausting several years of prime non-Ducati rider talent? or fight with Ducati and change the formula now (if that's even possible)?
 
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