MotoGP: 2024 Round 1 Qatar Airways Grand Prix of Qatar

mikesbytes · Mar 12, 2024

MotoGP is so close nowadays that a single issue puts you out of the points

PRS717 · Mar 12, 2024

JFM01 said:
Did you watch last year's Moto3 race at Qatar?

Pretty sure I did but can't say I remember it. Heck, I don't even remember this kid from last year. Who did he ride for? Maybe I'll go back and watch it again.

*EDIT* I see he was Masia's teammate? I must be going senile because I don't remember him.

PRS717 · Mar 12, 2024

mylexicon said:
Tires are complex and I can't claim to have specific knowledge. The concept relayed to me is that tires are about optimization. If the carcass is too hard it doesn't flex and it won't generate the internal friction necessary to get the compound up to temperature. The tire will cold tear. Similarly, if the rubber compound is too hard for the carcass, the tire won't generate enough grip to flex the carcass, and the tire will fail for a similar reasons.

If the softer tire is in the correct operating temperature, it can outlast a harder tire.

Thanks. So maybe Pirelli over-compensated for the new surface with the medium?

MdubSTYLIE · Mar 12, 2024

PRS717 said:
Pretty sure I did but can't say I remember it. Heck, I don't even remember this kid from last year. Who did he ride for? Maybe I'll go back and watch it again.

*EDIT* I see he was Masia's teammate? I must be going senile because I don't remember him.

Him and Masia rode like total ........ trying to keep Sasaki from having any chance of the championship. They completely broke the rules of racing and I will forever hate them both.

TeamKoolGreen · Mar 12, 2024

mylexicon said:
Ducati doesn't have the best record of managing their #2 rider. Miller made it look like they were sane again, but Bastianini's tenure is reminding people--you don't want to be #2 on the factory Ducati squad. Ducati don't seem to support the #2 rider. Instead, they try to psyhack him until he goes faster. Fails stupendously, but they can't seem to help themselves.

The #2 bike handicap is hard to judge. I guess we won't know but Jorge Martin would most likely be getting more out of the bike than Beast.

p4p1 · Mar 12, 2024

MdubSTYLIE said:
Serves him right. His behavior to fight being taken off the grid benefitted him. Had he followed orders he would have had to start from pit lane. Instead he caused a red flag and got to start from the back of the grid. So in the future if a rider stalls on the grid, fight being pulled of grid so you can start from the back. He should be penalized for that.

Thought the same tbh.

surendhar · Mar 12, 2024

mylexicon said:
True. WSBK is getting stronger, and balance of performance and eligible parts has leveled the playing field. If GP continues shedding talent, SBK will get stronger. Morbidelli, Vinales, Miller, and Oliveira are all touching 30, and they haven't done much in recent years. If WSBK collects a couple more talented riders, the relationship between WSBK and GP could be closer to that of the 90s, though the fan disparity will probably remain.

and the paddock access in WSBK is better and easy.

PRS717 · Mar 12, 2024

MdubSTYLIE said:
Him and Masia rode like total ........ trying to keep Sasaki from having any chance of the championship. They completely broke the rules of racing and I will forever hate them both.

Yes, I remember Sasaki being punted from the track 2 or 3 times and Masia being an ....... I forgot about Fernandez. I was rooting for Sasaki.

Keshav · Mar 12, 2024

PRS717 said:
Thanks. So maybe Pirelli over-compensated for the new surface with the medium?

Or they simply weren't aware of the resurfacing. A lot of logistics to keep up with when making tires for multiple tracks in three different series, where a given class or series may be running at a different time of the year from the alternate series. That is a ....-load of data to process, a ton of permutations to compute and an insane amount of quality control to maintain.

JPSLotus · Mar 13, 2024

Well Pecco seemed to heed my calls and showed what the GP24 is all about. I couldn't get over the increased straight line speed of the bike compared to the GP23. Kudos to the Ducati engine designers, they seem to have made a step in a formula of extremely diminishing returns. But I will say I don't think Marc ever got out of the final corner particularly well. I wasn't a fan of the lines he was taking the day before the race.

Brad Binder is phenomenal on the KTM. Has been since he got there but it was an exceptional race for him. At least someone was able to keep Pecco a little honest.

I think Jorge Martin is going to be a tale of two cities again this year. He'll win races no doubt, but he seems to do far better when he can just outright ride to pure speed and not have to manage anything. The main event, you've got to be able to manage those tires, and I think if Marc had been better acclimated to the Ducati, JM would have been off that podium. Thought MM rode exceptionally well on a bogey circuit. The bike looks like its on rails for him compared to the RC213V. I think watching him for so many years bucking and weaving all over the place on the Honda, throws you for a loop when you see him riding in a completely different manner to what we saw for the last decade. Portimao will be interesting to see how he handles it with the new bike.

Pedro Acosta has the pure speed, just needs the race strategy to go with it. I get he wanted to make a statement by running up close to the front on his debut but I think he should have focused more on the tire wear since these tires are what they are at this point. He'll get better as the season goes on I'm sure and could definitely throw a monkey wrench into the proceedings in my opinion. Looking forward to watching him this year. He was probably the best part of an otherwise not terribly interesting race. The Aprilias have work to do since Aleix just went backwards at the start and really wasn't able to get into any kind of rhythm on the bike. Maverick did what he did. as usual. The Hondas are nowhere near where they need to be, Zarco rode well and probably will be the highest placed Honda at season's end. Really makes you appreciate what Marc was able to do with such a garbage motorcycle.

Shout out to Marco Bezzecchi for being nowhere near MM after running his mouth since last November.

MdubSTYLIE · Mar 13, 2024

JPSLotus said:
Well Pecco seemed to heed my calls and showed what the GP24 is all about. I couldn't get over the increased straight line speed of the bike compared to the GP23. Kudos to the Ducati engine designers, they seem to have made a step in a formula of extremely diminishing returns. But I will say I don't think Marc ever got out of the final corner particularly well. I wasn't a fan of the lines he was taking the day before the race.

Brad Binder is phenomenal on the KTM. Has been since he got there but it was an exceptional race for him. At least someone was able to keep Pecco a little honest.

I think Jorge Martin is going to be a tale of two cities again this year. He'll win races no doubt, but he seems to do far better when he can just outright ride to pure speed and not have to manage anything. The main event, you've got to be able to manage those tires, and I think if Marc had been better acclimated to the Ducati, JM would have been off that podium. Thought MM rode exceptionally well on a bogey circuit. The bike looks like its on rails for him compared to the RC213V. I think watching him for so many years bucking and weaving all over the place on the Honda, throws you for a loop when you see him riding in a completely different manner to what we saw for the last decade. Portimao will be interesting to see how he handles it with the new bike.

Pedro Acosta has the pure speed, just needs the race strategy to go with it. I get he wanted to make a statement by running up close to the front on his debut but I think he should have focused more on the tire wear since these tires are what they are at this point. He'll get better as the season goes on I'm sure and could definitely throw a monkey wrench into the proceedings in my opinion. Looking forward to watching him this year. He was probably the best part of an otherwise not terribly interesting race. The Aprilias have work to do since Aleix just went backwards at the start and really wasn't able to get into any kind of rhythm on the bike. Maverick did what he did. as usual. The Hondas are nowhere near where they need to be, Zarco rode well and probably will be the highest placed Honda at season's end. Really makes you appreciate what Marc was able to do with such a garbage motorcycle.

Shout out to Marco Bezzecchi for being nowhere near MM after running his mouth since last November.

Excellent post JPS. I am ok with Pedro riding the wheels off the bike. I think its a case of you don't know until you know. Its going to take him a bit to understand how hard he can ride the bike without wearing out tires in a race. He either has to push hard and wear the tires are or not push as hard until he finds the limit. The fact that he was able to push that hard was a confidence boost. I'd like to see him continuously push a little less until he finds it. He can continue to wear out tires as long as he keeps making them last a little longer each race.

Keshav · Mar 13, 2024

There is a link somewhere's on the forum with Jorge interviewing MM where he states that his issue with fast corners especially were a result of a set-up change he instituted and later regretted, which no doubt contributed to his lesser speed on the straights. The way this kind of fiddly diddly fine tuning crap can fog up the most interesting part of the sport, the contest between riders, really gets on my tits.

Keshav · Mar 13, 2024

MdubSTYLIE said:
Excellent post JPS. I am ok with Pedro riding the wheels off the bike. I think its a case of you don't know until you know. Its going to take him a bit to understand how hard he can ride the bike without wearing out tires in a race. He either has to push hard and wear the tires are or not push as hard until he finds the limit. The fact that he was able to push that hard was a confidence boost. I'd like to see him continuously push a little less until he finds it. He can continue to wear out tires as long as he keeps making them last a little longer each race.

And that he should continue to do it without crashing helps too. I still am amazed at how often riders don't know when to back off, and just finish. That last sentence is a direct quote from my wife.

JPSLotus · Mar 13, 2024

MdubSTYLIE said:
Excellent post JPS. I am ok with Pedro riding the wheels off the bike. I think its a case of you don't know until you know. Its going to take him a bit to understand how hard he can ride the bike without wearing out tires in a race. He either has to push hard and wear the tires are or not push as hard until he finds the limit. The fact that he was able to push that hard was a confidence boost. I'd like to see him continuously push a little less until he finds it. He can continue to wear out tires as long as he keeps making them last a little longer each race.

I guess I look at it you could ride the wheels off in testing but the focus on a race weekend needs to be understanding how the tires wear since we know in particular how inconsistent the Michelin's can be at times. Heck even the FP sessions give a good opportunity for pushing hard on one lap or more pace. I just see it differently in that the learning experience of an actual grand prix is limited and you need to maximize those opportunities to learn what you can at the beginning of one's GP career. But one thing is for sure, Jack Miller is finished on the factory KTM. There's no way he rides another season on that bike seeing what Acosta can do. I wonder if they would consider switching seats mid-season or even sooner.

surendhar · Mar 13, 2024

JPSLotus said:
Well Pecco seemed to heed my calls and showed what the GP24 is all about. I couldn't get over the increased straight line speed of the bike compared to the GP23. Kudos to the Ducati engine designers, they seem to have made a step in a formula of extremely diminishing returns. But I will say I don't think Marc ever got out of the final corner particularly well. I wasn't a fan of the lines he was taking the day before the race.

Brad Binder is phenomenal on the KTM. Has been since he got there but it was an exceptional race for him. At least someone was able to keep Pecco a little honest.

I think Jorge Martin is going to be a tale of two cities again this year. He'll win races no doubt, but he seems to do far better when he can just outright ride to pure speed and not have to manage anything. The main event, you've got to be able to manage those tires, and I think if Marc had been better acclimated to the Ducati, JM would have been off that podium. Thought MM rode exceptionally well on a bogey circuit. The bike looks like its on rails for him compared to the RC213V. I think watching him for so many years bucking and weaving all over the place on the Honda, throws you for a loop when you see him riding in a completely different manner to what we saw for the last decade. Portimao will be interesting to see how he handles it with the new bike.

Pedro Acosta has the pure speed, just needs the race strategy to go with it. I get he wanted to make a statement by running up close to the front on his debut but I think he should have focused more on the tire wear since these tires are what they are at this point. He'll get better as the season goes on I'm sure and could definitely throw a monkey wrench into the proceedings in my opinion. Looking forward to watching him this year. He was probably the best part of an otherwise not terribly interesting race. The Aprilias have work to do since Aleix just went backwards at the start and really wasn't able to get into any kind of rhythm on the bike. Maverick did what he did. as usual. The Hondas are nowhere near where they need to be, Zarco rode well and probably will be the highest placed Honda at season's end. Really makes you appreciate what Marc was able to do with such a garbage motorcycle.

Shout out to Marco Bezzecchi for being nowhere near MM after running his mouth since last November.

Agree. With re to Acosta, he also seem to have encountered some forearm issues in the last 6 laps due to which he reduced his speed (apart from the tire wear it seems)

#22 · Mar 14, 2024

JPSLotus said:
Well Pecco seemed to heed my calls and showed what the GP24 is all about. I couldn't get over the increased straight line speed of the bike compared to the GP23. Kudos to the Ducati engine designers, they seem to have made a step in a formula of extremely diminishing returns. But I will say I don't think Marc ever got out of the final corner particularly well. I wasn't a fan of the lines he was taking the day before the race.

As Keshav said, Marc confirmed that he wasn't getting off the final corner well. I believe they made a setup change after the sprint, and it hampered him more. So while the 24 is an improvement, I think it isn;t a 100% even comparison.

JPSLotus said:
Brad Binder is phenomenal on the KTM. Has been since he got there but it was an exceptional race for him. At least someone was able to keep Pecco a little honest.

A number of us agree he is criminally underrated.

JPSLotus said:
I think Jorge Martin is going to be a tale of two cities again this year. He'll win races no doubt, but he seems to do far better when he can just outright ride to pure speed and not have to manage anything. The main event, you've got to be able to manage those tires, and I think if Marc had been better acclimated to the Ducati, JM would have been off that podium.

I agree. Still too early to comment on Bagnaia too. He won the sprint and main race in Portimao last yr and everyone said "now he has the confidence of the #1 plate he'll be gone" yet he threw it down the road in the next 2 races.

JPSLotus said:
Thought MM rode exceptionally well on a bogey circuit. The bike looks like its on rails for him compared to the RC213V. I think watching him for so many years bucking and weaving all over the place on the Honda, throws you for a loop when you see him riding in a completely different manner to what we saw for the last decade. Portimao will be interesting to see how he handles it with the new bike.

Agreed. It really shows you how bad the Honda has been, even before COVID (Not saying it was a BAD bike back then, but Marquez was certainly making it look better than it was). I think once his confidence grows on that bike, he's going to be a force. He did say Portimao may be hard as he had 2 days of testing at Qatar previous to the race, but we will see.

JPSLotus said:
Pedro Acosta has the pure speed, just needs the race strategy to go with it. I get he wanted to make a statement by running up close to the front on his debut but I think he should have focused more on the tire wear since these tires are what they are at this point. He'll get better as the season goes on I'm sure and could definitely throw a monkey wrench into the proceedings in my opinion. Looking forward to watching him this year. He was probably the best part of an otherwise not terribly interesting race.

As the saying goes, you can teach a fast rider not to crash (or in this case burn up tyres), but you cannot teach a slow rider to go fast.

JPSLotus said:
The Aprilias have work to do since Aleix just went backwards at the start and really wasn't able to get into any kind of rhythm on the bike. Maverick did what he did. as usual.

Aprilia need 2 new riders IMO.

JPSLotus said:
The Hondas are nowhere near where they need to be, Zarco rode well and probably will be the highest placed Honda at season's end. Really makes you appreciate what Marc was able to do with such a garbage motorcycle.

I'm surprised Marini wasn't on the podium. After all, according to the internet, the Honda is a race winning bike.

JPSLotus said:
Shout out to Marco Bezzecchi for being nowhere near MM after running his mouth since last November.

Yes, it's delicious karma.

MdubSTYLIE said:
He can continue to wear out tires as long as he keeps making them last a little longer each race.

There is an Acosta virginity joke in there somewhere....

JPSLotus said:
I guess I look at it you could ride the wheels off in testing but the focus on a race weekend needs to be understanding how the tires wear since we know in particular how inconsistent the Michelin's can be at times. Heck even the FP sessions give a good opportunity for pushing hard on one lap or more pace. I just see it differently in that the learning experience of an actual grand prix is limited and you need to maximize those opportunities to learn what you can at the beginning of one's GP career. But one thing is for sure, Jack Miller is finished on the factory KTM. There's no way he rides another season on that bike seeing what Acosta can do. I wonder if they would consider switching seats mid-season or even sooner.

My experience is, testing is all wall and good and it has it's place. But, you learn an awful lot more in race situations.

Regarding Miller. Myself and others have said the same thing, I think at this rate he will be lucky to keep his seat for this season.

p4p1 · Mar 14, 2024

#22 said:
As Keshav said, Marc confirmed that he wasn't getting off the final corner well. I believe they made a setup change after the sprint, and it hampered him more. So while the 24 is an improvement, I think it isn;t a 100% even comparison.

A number of us agree he is criminally underrated.

I agree. Still too early to comment on Bagnaia too. He won the sprint and main race in Portimao last yr and everyone said "now he has the confidence of the #1 plate he'll be gone" yet he threw it down the road in the next 2 races.

Agreed. It really shows you how bad the Honda has been, even before COVID (Not saying it was a BAD bike back then, but Marquez was certainly making it look better than it was). I think once his confidence grows on that bike, he's going to be a force. He did say Portimao may be hard as he had 2 days of testing at Qatar previous to the race, but we will see.

As the saying goes, you can teach a fast rider not to crash (or in this case burn up tyres), but you cannot teach a slow rider to go fast.

Aprilia need 2 new riders IMO.

I'm surprised Marini wasn't on the podium. After all, according to the internet, the Honda is a race winning bike.

Yes, it's delicious karma.

There is an Acosta virginity joke in there somewhere....

My experience is, testing is all wall and good and it has it's place. But, you learn an awful lot more in race situations.

Regarding Miller. Myself and others have said the same thing, I think at this rate he will be lucky to keep his seat for this season.

Is it likely that Marquez learnt more from the races, being behind Pecco and Martin for significant parts of both races than he did from the tests? Maybe saying learning more is wrong but understanding more about how to be fast on the bike from being behind those two than from testing?

mikesbytes · Mar 14, 2024

Binder in amongst a sea of Ducati’s

DavidSim · Mar 14, 2024

p4p1 said:
Is it likely that Marquez learnt more from the races, being behind Pecco and Martin for significant parts of both races than he did from the tests? Maybe saying learning more is wrong but understanding more about how to be fast on the bike from being behind those two than from testing?

Seems to me that those who are braking best in the corners have a noticeable advantage this year !

#22 · Mar 14, 2024

p4p1 said:
Is it likely that Marquez learnt more from the races, being behind Pecco and Martin for significant parts of both races than he did from the tests? Maybe saying learning more is wrong but understanding more about how to be fast on the bike from being behind those two than from testing?

Agreed.

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