MotoGP: 2015 Round 17 - Shell Malaysia Motorcycle Grand Prix (SPOILERS)

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Arrabbiata1 said:
.... off
Click to expand...
That reminds me.

When Rossi showed up with lap time charts, graphs, and a bunch of documents with hand written notes, it appears a sheet fell out of the pile as he retired back to his motorhome. One unidentified spectator found the document. Its still unclear if it belonged to Valentino Rossi.

uploadfromtaptalk1445619927600.jpg
 
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Jumkie said:
There's a lot of good stuff I can say about Rossi. Honestly, but it's just I was ruined when I joined this forum because in 06 it was 99% boppers, and me (and about three others). For a,long time I heard the most epic mountain of turds turds piled on Hayden (my guy). Then...the heat subsided, only for the exact heap of turds to be piled on Stoner. Both guys honest kids trying to live out their dreams and putting in the work to achieve it. The effect to their enjoyment was absolutely visible. Prompting Hayden to place a sticker on his bike and patch on his leathers: Numbers Don't Lie. Please my good sir (and others reading this) what kinda .... have these two riders had to suffer through to prompt them to defend themselves this way.
Click to expand...

** Please forgive any memory lapses with this post **

I personally have always disliked Hayden because of 2002! He was on the damn RC-51 (1000 Twin), meanwhile poor Eric Bostrom, was stuck on the ZX-7R (750 I4). If i have no dog in the fight, i route for the underdog. That RC-51 was far and away superior. Eric worked his ass off just to keep up, and honestly i thought he was the better rider that year. Hayden wins the championship and goes on to be a superstar. Eric Bostrom goes on to be a bozo. Interesting how similar paths can diverge so quickly. So, injustice perceived by me, Hayden dislike as the result.

Maybe it's the wrong way to do it, but i cheer for the manufacturer. I love Yamaha. So i hated Rossi, then i loved him. I hate Marquez, but if he signs with Yamaha, i'll love him. So, i don't know if i'm a true blue bopper, but i do want him to win this year. Good talking.
 
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Aggettivo said:
Stoner might have been faster and who knows, overall even a stronger rider than Rossi, but if you're really strong in a sport you don't run away from your field, from your mission. You stay there no matter what, you fight and you proove your points, taking victories and accepting defeats, race after race, year after year. Rossi has done that. Yeah, it's true he has the traits of the unemphatic selfish thuggish ......., of the spoiled-kid-grown-old on his throne who's not wise enough to leave in proper time and build a solid foundation for himself and his heirs. He's the Putin of MotoGP, he has flaws and I wouldn't be surprised at all if somebody demonstrated he's done bad stuff in the backstage with Dorna, taking advantage of the commercial value of his status and his public image.

Still, if he'll win his tenth this year - personally I think he will - it'll probably be the last time on this sport where, within a winning combo bike + man, the rider - and the man, the mind - is truthfully as important as the bike.

Although there's something fascinating in it, I don't like Lorenzo's half-zen/half-feminine attitude on his bike like "I race like a god for myself, the others don't exist"... It can help you win some races, but it hides a huge amount of inner weakness and it's normal it can't help you win championships. To really win, you gotta face the dirt, expose yourself to the muds, metaphorically speaking, of challenging other people and external events. Rossi does that, whining, moaning, punching, sweating, being lucky, being tactical, being brave, being patient according to the single event.

If Lorenzo is an Aphrodite, and Stoner an Achilles of sorts, Rossi, especially in this latest old version, is like Ulysses. Sometimes the legit one, sometimes the joycian one.
Click to expand...
Perhaps your animadversions about Lorenzo's approach this year are not entirely off the planet, although arguably changing his approach for one wet race, going for too much and putting the bike down is the reason he is not leading the championship as we speak.

It was hardly his approach for his 2 title defences though, which is what made me a fan. He fought absolutely tooth and nail to the last turn of the wheel in both 2011 and 2013, perhaps against the odds in the first place; Honda were massively motivated and their bike massively resourced. Do you not recall the Valencia 2013 race?

Given recent reaction to Iannone, to say nothing of anyone else who has ever challenged Valentino head on, even for a single race like Tony Elias, let alone for a holy grail 8th championship, do you think it vaguely possible that Jorge has tailored his approach this year to his opponent.
 
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Jumkie said:
That reminds me.

When Rossi showed up with lap time charts, graphs, and a bunch of documents with hand written notes, it appears a sheet fell out of the pile as he retired back to his motorhome. One unidentified spectator found the document. Its still unclear if it belonged to Valentino Rossi.

View attachment 11355
Click to expand...

After Rossi wins the 2015 Champsionship...

2817e3a0374aa518695556588496ac19.jpg


hqdefault.jpg
 
Eric Bostrom, my second ever liked Superbike guy in the AMA. Actually I liked Eric and Ben the same. Both a hair behind Nicky. I'm not so sure Eric had the same drive as Nicky to go on to "greatness." At least not defined in the conventional way. I say this because I think Eric moved on to pursue his own happiness, and I admire him for that. Eric never caught his big breakthrough. Many riders in his shoes.
 
No E Boz didnt have the drive. I believe in the case of 2002 however, that if they changed bikes, we would've seen the opposite outcome as far as that championship went. Hayden would still have moved on to bigger and better.
 
Jumkie said:
Excellent post. You reminded me of the wall thing a few years back at Yamaha. Then the data "sharing" at Ducati.

Nah bro, I'm a nice guy, but like all of us, the sport sometimes gets the best of us, more so with me. Personality flaw, granted. Some of my best friends are boppers and stoner haters. No seriously. I was best man for this forum 's ultimate bopper. Fact. Consider my posts half wind up half truths half speculation, and three quarters Kesh bashing. Ha!

There's a lot of good stuff I can say about Rossi. Honestly, but it's just I was ruined when I joined this forum because in 06 it was 99% boppers, and me (and about three others). For a,long time I heard the most epic mountain of turds turds piled on Hayden (my guy). Then...the heat subsided, only for the exact heap of turds to be piled on Stoner. Both guys honest kids trying to live out their dreams and putting in the work to achieve it. The effect to their enjoyment was absolutely visible. Prompting Hayden to place a sticker on his bike and patch on his leathers: Numbers Don't Lie. Please my good sir (and others reading this) what kinda .... have these two riders had to suffer through to prompt them to defend themselves this way.

So ReddiWhip, you can say I was ruined by that and it's been my perspective on the sport ever since. Flawed? Yes, no doubt. Any more flawed than any other fan? I don't know, perhaps yes. But I'll add, the same collective mindset that injured Hayden and Stoner has absolutely not changed. And why would it, they take their lead from Rossi worship, a man who just engaged in character assassination. With charts and doctored document no less.

Anyway, thnx for the kind words. Undeserved, we all make this thing go round round. I'm not joking when I say, I wish I had the comedic acumen of JKD and Mdub, the articulation of Arrabi and MikeM, the ability to spot the crux like Birdman and JP, the stable personality of LeviG, unstable personality of Cliche, the destructive ability of Kesh, the technical knowhow of 22, the tits of Sparrow, the beautiful looks of Willski, or the bartending job of Sovelhead. Honestly could go on and on about every member here and how we all contribute. We got Kropo here for .... sake. How awesome is that?
Click to expand...
I have perhaps let the memory fade of attitudes to the 2006 and 2007 non-Rossi title wins, which is what got me involved in the forum as well. There were however also many reasonable Rossi fans on the forum then, such as Babel, and Ben himself as I recall.

I would hardly dispute the possibility of tyre manipulation, given historical occurrences and having suggested in the past that it occurred to Casey Stoner's disadvantage , although you considered me to be indulging in conspiracy theories at the time :happy:.

I am willing to believe Valentino has a tyre which better suits him this year, he is even possibly in a position to influence this, although I see no problem with him being provided with such a tyre as long as others have not been nobbled, and as I have said, Jorge has also been given back "his" tyre. You have however been arguing for the whole season that MM's problems are self created, with which I agree to a significant extent.

As has been said, it would have been a high risk gamble to attempt to manipulate the championship to only benefit Rossi, and required full cooperation from Bridgestone whilst in the throes of a divorce.
 
Mike, one of my first thoughts on the subject of Marc crashing was regarding this year's new tire. Im always acutely aware of tires because I've always felt its the single most factor among competitive machines that decides titles, and with ample precedent (SNS). I wholely rejected the "decline of the RCV" as the culprit. The crashes meant he pushed beyond the grip limits, rider error, and dovetails my suspicion regarding tires.

The issue I debated was not that Casey had inferior tires, but rather the suggestion that they were switched come race day. That didn't seem plausible. But now anything seems possible. If you recall I recently dug up and reminded Migs of the conspiracy Rossi alluded to that his tires (during the SNS Era no less) had been suddenly and inexplicably been odd and different for the Valencia 2006 showdown.

High risk gamble to give Rossi better consistency during a season? What? What was at risk? That Marc would dominate or Lorenzo would be faster? Uhm, this had been the case last two years. It was a no brainer to create a tire that suited Rossi. Hey guys, the most popular rider in the history of the universe will forever have highlights being shown on a continuous loop with BRIDGESTONES. In the absolute greatest ever comback story ever. Yeah, you're right, Bridgestone leaving and never having another 'golden' marketing opportunity present itself like this wouldn't have been attractive.
 
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Jumkie said:
Excellent post. You reminded me of the wall thing a few years back at Yamaha. Then the data "sharing" at Ducati.

Nah bro, I'm a nice guy, but like all of us, the sport sometimes gets the best of us, more so with me. Personality flaw, granted. Some of my best friends are boppers and stoner haters. No seriously. I was best man for this forum 's ultimate bopper. Fact. Consider my posts half wind up half truths half speculation, and three quarters Kesh bashing. Ha!

There's a lot of good stuff I can say about Rossi. Honestly, but it's just I was ruined when I joined this forum because in 06 it was 99% boppers, and me (and about three others). For a,long time I heard the most epic mountain of turds turds piled on Hayden (my guy). Then...the heat subsided, only for the exact heap of turds to be piled on Stoner. Both guys honest kids trying to live out their dreams and putting in the work to achieve it. The effect to their enjoyment was absolutely visible. Prompting Hayden to place a sticker on his bike and patch on his leathers: Numbers Don't Lie. Please my good sir (and others reading this) what kinda .... have these two riders had to suffer through to prompt them to defend themselves this way.

So ReddiWhip, you can say I was ruined by that and it's been my perspective on the sport ever since. Flawed? Yes, no doubt. Any more flawed than any other fan? I don't know, perhaps yes. But I'll add, the same collective mindset that injured Hayden and Stoner has absolutely not changed. And why would it, they take their lead from Rossi worship, a man who just engaged in character assassination. With charts and doctored document no less.

Anyway, thnx for the kind words. Undeserved, we all make this thing go round round. I'm not joking when I say, I wish I had the comedic acumen of JKD and Mdub, the articulation of Arrabi and MikeM, the ability to spot the crux like Birdman and JP, the stable personality of LeviG, unstable personality of Cliche, the destructive ability of Kesh, the technical knowhow of 22, the tits of Sparrow, the beautiful looks of Willski, or the bartending job of Sovelhead. Honestly could go on and on about every member here and how we all contribute. We got Kropo here for .... sake. How awesome is that?
Click to expand...

JPSLotus said:
Imagine this, a friendly disagreement about some things, but no personal attacks.

What a thing to have happen!
Click to expand...

Really?:rolleyes:
 
Aggettivo said:
Stoner might have been faster and who knows, overall even a stronger rider than Rossi, but if you're really strong in a sport you don't run away from your field, from your mission. You stay there no matter what, you fight and you proove your points, taking victories and accepting defeats, race after race, year after year. Rossi has done that. Yeah, it's true he has the traits of the unemphatic selfish thuggish ......., of the spoiled-kid-grown-old on his throne who's not wise enough to leave in proper time and build a solid foundation for himself and his heirs. He's the Putin of MotoGP, he has flaws and I wouldn't be surprised at all if somebody demonstrated he's done bad stuff in the backstage with Dorna, taking advantage of the commercial value of his status and his public image.

Still, if he'll win his tenth this year - personally I think he will - it'll probably be the last time on this sport where, within a winning combo bike + man, the rider - and the man, the mind - is truthfully as important as the bike.

Although there's something fascinating in it, I don't like Lorenzo's half-zen/half-feminine attitude on his bike like "I race like a god for myself, the others don't exist"... It can help you win some races, but it hides a huge amount of inner weakness and it's normal it can't help you win championships. To really win, you gotta face the dirt, expose yourself to the muds, metaphorically speaking, of challenging other people and external events. Rossi does that, whining, moaning, punching, sweating, being lucky, being tactical, being brave, being patient according to the single event.

If Lorenzo is an Aphrodite, and Stoner an Achilles of sorts, Rossi, especially in this latest old version, is like Ulysses. Sometimes the legit one, sometimes the joycian one.
Click to expand...

My wife is an expert on Greek Mythology. This was her comments on your post:

"Whoa Whoa Whoa, you can't be mixing Greek and Roman! Aphrodite and Achillies are both Greek, Ulysses is the Roman equivalent of Odysseus (who, after winning the Trojan war, pissed of Poseidon but forgot he had to cross the ocean to get home)"

So, who has Rossi pissed that will make his quest to win a tenth title hard (I.e. Who is the Poseidon who is going to kick Rossi's ass? Lorenzo? Dorna? Marquez?
 
#22 said:
My wife is an expert on Greek Mythology. This was her comments on your post:

"Whoa Whoa Whoa, you can't be mixing Greek and Roman! Aphrodite and Achillies are both Greek, Ulysses is the Roman equivalent of Odysseus (who, after winning the Trojan war, pissed of Poseidon but forgot he had to cross the ocean to get home)"

So, who has Rossi pissed that will make his quest to win a tenth title hard (I.e. Who is the Poseidon who is going to kick Rossi's ass? Lorenzo? Dorna? Marquez?
Click to expand...
Hahaha! This has me rolling. Fantastic.

Let's just call Rossi Zeus. Didn't he eat his own children to stay on top?
 
Jumkie said:
Anyway, thnx for the kind words. Undeserved, we all make this thing go round round. I'm not joking when I say, I wish I had the comedic acumen of JKD and Mdub, the articulation of Arrabi and MikeM, the ability to spot the crux like Birdman and JP, the stable personality of LeviG, unstable personality of Cliche, the destructive ability of Kesh, the technical knowhow of 22, the tits of Sparrow, the beautiful looks of Willski, or the bartending job of Sovelhead. Honestly could go on and on about every member here and how we all contribute. We got Kropo here for .... sake. How awesome is that?
Click to expand...

This made me laugh out loud. Well done.
 

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