MotoGP: 2015 Round 17 - Shell Malaysia Motorcycle Grand Prix (SPOILERS)
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Hi Pete, good to see you good friend. I haven't read the whole thread through, been at a party, and usually see just the last one or two post, I reply, then pretend I'm tuned in to this Fiesta. Halloween party if u must know. Next year I'm gonna dress up as Valentino Rossi...a real life evil monster villain. 
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Marc was faster than Rossi, there was no reason for Marc to be battling with Rossi when he could have been running the pace of Lorenzo or Pedrosa. Rossi made several attempts to simply pass Marc and focus on catching Lorenzo. Marc had other ideas and seemed to only be concerned with battling Rossi. THAT is why Rossi slowed down and looked back at Marc. Marc did not have to follow Rossi off line and slow down! Marc could've cut back under Rossi, got back on the racing line, and taken off.
I agree that Rossi played a role by slowing down to confront Marc, but I do not think Rossi crashed Marc out of the race. I actually think Yamaha had a solid case for an appeal.
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Rossi always has the option of qualifying on pole and taking off in the lead, to win the race. You know, if Pedro can do it, maybe Rossi could give it a try. Did you notice the risks Lorenzo took early on to quickly get past the superfast on the straight Ducatis? That took balls, Rossi could grow a pair of them rather than rely on that handbag of his.
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I fully expect Rossi to go into public relations damage limitations mode. His PR team will create a plan of action and some 'doctored' up apologies will be offered to Marquez. Putting of course the pressure on the victim to "forgive " or look to be the chump. Its exactly what Rossi did with Stoner, waiting for the whores of media who do his bidding when he walked into the garage to offer his ........ apology. Guess who came out looking like the .... to the gullible masses? I fully expect it to play out exactly the same.
Did we watch the same video?
MM did not follow Rossi offline at all but rather was placed in the position by VR taking the line and using the age old tactic of 'push to the edge of the circuit and make the rider decide' (which is usually done at race speed and is an accepted tactic - heck, watching Mick Doohan explain to to Criville is still funny all these years later)
As for cutting back, no he couldn't because Rossi had done what he should have at this point and positioned his bike between MM and the ideal line (again, an age old tactic) which removes the choice of the cutover/under from the 2nd rider. Actually Rossi did do similar at MG last week twice where he dove under MM and performed a classic block pass by having his bike where MM needed to be. No harm in that either.
But again, Mark may have been faster but that does not mean that by hanging back he was breaking rules of the sport (morals or ethics being a different matter, but then I question others behaviour in that regard as well)
Careful .......
Watching the video again I suggest you when the first head check left (2 seconds) which occurs roughly when side by side (MM is still looking relatively ahead).
Accelerate
VR moves left towards the edge of the track as he is entitled to do which forces MM to check/pick up the bike slightly (Rossi has looked a second time) and they are now side by side with Rossi slightly ahead. Rossi has a second look over his left shoulder here (3 second mark).
Rossi slows greatly here (as if rolled of throttle) and continues a left ward drift (again, as he is entitled to position himself on the track .............) and they impact as at this stage MM is trying to get back onto the gas to drive through the corner and (I suspect) drive past Rossi. At impact there is a third head check (4 seconds mark).
Either way you have your view and I have mine, but right now we are stuck in a loop so happy to post the above and leave us each to our own beliefs
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As you have said on many occasions...it is all just a farce, so there are no real honest riders in the sport....that aside....if your feelings are genuinely strong enough then need to back them up with actions, and not just more internet bitching.....and in our case the only way to 'vote' your displeasure with Dorna is with your dollar....strongly worded letters to Dorna will fall on deaf ears.....
I am glad you feel vindicated...it wont however change a thing....Rossi's legacy will endure in the long run....MM wont truly fully replace Rossi in the minds of fans even after this latest incident....Long term Rossi and Dorna will win....
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Debating the actual incident by splitting hairs in this case is futile. Rossi's intention was clear and he projected it with plenty of malicious clarity. That the perpetrator is not admitting guilt is not only predictable but absolutely irrelevant.
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Rossi will still be the 2015 cheatampion.
He will still finish fourth, where he would have finished anyway without this pathetically weak penalty. Jorge must beat one of the Hondas.
You just watch how quickly he comes through the field with his special tyres.
How sad.
He will still finish fourth, where he would have finished anyway without this pathetically weak penalty. Jorge must beat one of the Hondas.
You just watch how quickly he comes through the field with his special tyres.
How sad.
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You have cowardly ignored the premise again. Let's make this more simple, because I won't let YOU weasel out of it. I believe there are some honest participants in this sport. Do you believe there are honest participants in this sport?
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Did we watch the same video?
MM did not follow Rossi offline at all but rather was placed in the position by VR taking the line and using the age old tactic of 'push to the edge of the circuit and make the rider decide' (which is usually done at race speed and is an accepted tactic - heck, watching Mick Doohan explain to to Criville is still funny all these years later)
As for cutting back, no he couldn't because Rossi had done what he should have at this point and positioned his bike between MM and the ideal line (again, an age old tactic) which removes the choice of the cutover/under from the 2nd rider. Actually Rossi did do similar at MG last week twice where he dove under MM and performed a classic block pass by having his bike where MM needed to be. No harm in that either.
But again, Mark may have been faster but that does not mean that by hanging back he was breaking rules of the sport (morals or ethics being a different matter, but then I question others behaviour in that regard as well)
Careful .......
Watching the video again I suggest you when the first head check left (2 seconds) which occurs roughly when side by side (MM is still looking relatively ahead).
Accelerate
VR moves left towards the edge of the track as he is entitled to do which forces MM to check/pick up the bike slightly (Rossi has looked a second time) and they are now side by side with Rossi slightly ahead. Rossi has a second look over his left shoulder here (3 second mark).
Rossi slows greatly here (as if rolled of throttle) and continues a left ward drift (again, as he is entitled to position himself on the track .............) and they impact as at this stage MM is trying to get back onto the gas to drive through the corner and (I suspect) drive past Rossi. At impact there is a third head check (4 seconds mark).
Either way you have your view and I have mine, but right now we are stuck in a loop so happy to post the above and leave us each to our own beliefs
Even with your view of the incident (which isn't drastically different from mine), if Rossi didn't intentionally cause Marc to crash... does he still deserve to get hit with 3 penalty points and start from the back of the grid?
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Too late for that as I think the damage is done - only the hard core bopper brigade will accept any apologies now.
Any sane rational person could only come to one conclusion about Rossi's intent and actions. Apologies should be reserved for accidents - this was a deliberate move that endangered a competitor.
I reckon Yamaha will be mighty pissed off with this whole sorry saga - these are not the type of scenarios the corporate world like to be associated with. Especially after giving him this second chance.
Yes . but
You are actually asking the wrong person as my view is harsh ................ I believe that the penalty is soft
Top give perspective.
When CS punched RdP he was given a 5k fine .............. I pushed for a lot more severe penalty that included grid positions, starting from pit lane and time penalties.
When MM hit Willarot after a chequer at PI I called for lengthy race bans
So in this case, 3 penalty points is light but since you asked ..........
As a minimum I would like to see a time penalty of 30 seconds applied to VR (the incident was not what I would call a race incident as it was at Argentina) as I feel that his contribution to the incident was both greater and readily avoidable. I would then impose a 'start from pit lane' penalty at Valencia.
I would also have a suspended 3 penalty point threat on the licence
These would be the minimum as in VR's case a monetary fine could not be adequate and in many ways these seem inadequate but they would be my starting point
MM, I would need to see more of the lap times and videos before but he is 98% blameless in this incident (short of the racer mindset of getting in front)
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In your view of the world Rossi cheats, and Dorna is rigged to be like WWF....so by that logic all riders much be in on the 'act'....and hence maybe why Casey quit...any rider that has been in the sport long enough to get rides they didnt deserve isnt an honest riders ...
i am sure there most be an honest rider or two, but they dont last...and so dont really benefit form your dollars being spent on Dorna....
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Gaz....
What are the rules regarding the circumstances of being black flagged during a race?
I was amazed that Rossi was allowed to complete the race or at the very least given a time or ride through penalty.
What are the rules regarding the circumstances of being black flagged during a race?
I was amazed that Rossi was allowed to complete the race or at the very least given a time or ride through penalty.
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Alright, well that's where our opinions differ. I thought Marc braced for impact and rammed Rossi (perhaps hoping Rossi would crash, but once again ending up taking himself out). Marc had at least 2 feet of track left around the outside of Rossi that he could've easily used because they had both slowed down. When Marc gunned it, he wasn't attempting to go around Rossi, but into Rossi. Because of that being my view, I don't see the penalty Rossi got as fair. But who cares what I think, it's all up to Race Direction if their penalty will stand.
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The Jerez incident with Stoner wasn't dirty, just reckless, but in no way Stoner's fault and it was very understandable both that Stoner was piqued and that a show apology with the press in tow and helmet still in situ didn't cut it for him. What was insane was that Stoner immediately became the party at fault according to that element among Rossi's fandom, so any reaction to current events shouldn't surprise you.
That was an occasion when Rossi as a rider not in contention for the championship significantly interfered with a rider who was btw. The 2010 post leg break win late season win against Lorenzo who as opposed to MM was actually his team-mate was another; imo Valentino was entitled to go for the win in that race but it does make his attitude to MM's supposed tactics last week which actually led to a race win hypocritical.
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All up to the RD and stewards of the day
IMO here but they needed to see the onboard footage before they could issue a black flag anyway so I have no issue with no black flag ........... yes to some all may seem clear but only the onboard footage together with telemetry can tell the full story
Essentially the issue would be 100% proof of culpability and deliberate actions as if you were to pull a black flag and then see footage that casts doubt, it is not fair on the rider flagged.
I know it may not be a popular view but to not black flag was (IMO) correct in this case as it really is not as clear cut as we all want it to be
No, see my earlier post ......... it will be up to the FIM jury sometime after Valencia
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