Are you for real?
This is a thread about BLAMING MARSHALS not rossi. Stoner blamed those marshals and thats the point of the thread and me pointing out it's bollocks. You accuse me of something to which your the guilty party.
Casey and the Marshalls
- Thread starter The California Kid
- Start date
Are you for real?
This is a thread about BLAMING MARSHALS not rossi. Stoner blamed those marshals and thats the point of the thread and me pointing out it's bollocks. You accuse me of something to which your the guilty party.
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
Your post is gratuitously overemotional and melodramatic. With your inflamed imagination you make it sound like the the marshals are coremen at Dunkirk, out there, taking terrible risks dodging bikes out in the middle of the course with flaming engine bits whizzing past their ears. FFS - they picked up a bike out of the gravel and carted it away. No more no less. When's the last time you ever heard of a marshal being injured? NYC Sanitation workers, who haul away rubbish, sustain more injuries on average than does a corner marshal.
How so? all i said was
chopperman, on 14 July 2012 - 04:00 PM, said:
But you all continue to blame THE WRONG PEOPLE !!
YES rossi ...... up stoners day
YES honda have a system that switches the bike off once it goes on its side.
YES the marshals TRIED in vain to get Stoner re-started, something we all know was not only impossible but the marshals risked their own lives TRYING.
Now to fire off at these people is wrong and just looks like a spoiled brat having a tantrum. Follow this with standing track side slow clapping then his over patriotic fans defending it just makes me think next year can't come soon enough.
If you don't think push starting a bike on a live race track is not risking your life then you must really live on the edge.
Darryl Beattie struggled to explain why Stoner said what he said about Sachsenring marshalls.
Some of his points in defence of the marshalls were.
Long way into the gravel trap.
Uphill attempt to get him going, against the direction of racing.
Clutch lever very obviously pointing skywards........plus possible further dammge not shown due to the angle of the telecast footage.
Amazing talent on a bike........
.........Spoilt little child when things don't work out as he'd like/planned.
"Honest and not afraid to speak his mind"
Bollocks...........if he was that, he'd stand there and say "I'm pissed off 'cause I ...... up and threw away the points I got back last week"
As pointed out by someone earlier, the German marshalls had nothing to do with him not being allowed to race in years past.
It was race direction on advice from medical staff.
Can't even get his facts right when being churlish, derogatory and slanderous.
Stoner vs the World........the saga continues.
Some of his points in defence of the marshalls were.
Long way into the gravel trap.
Uphill attempt to get him going, against the direction of racing.
Clutch lever very obviously pointing skywards........plus possible further dammge not shown due to the angle of the telecast footage.
Amazing talent on a bike........
.........Spoilt little child when things don't work out as he'd like/planned.
"Honest and not afraid to speak his mind"
Bollocks...........if he was that, he'd stand there and say "I'm pissed off 'cause I ...... up and threw away the points I got back last week"
As pointed out by someone earlier, the German marshalls had nothing to do with him not being allowed to race in years past.
It was race direction on advice from medical staff.
Can't even get his facts right when being churlish, derogatory and slanderous.
Stoner vs the World........the saga continues.
Rog, I will ask again as I have in the past.
Does Stoner receive the equal level of treatment as Rossi in this incident?
That is/was his contention at the time and IMO from the many varied video angles of the incident the answer is a clear no, he did not get the same level of assistance. At no stage does he get the same number of marshalls assisting him as did Rossi
Call me bias (I am sure some will) but the video clearly shows a discrepancy in the numbers who attend to each rider and actally show teh second group of marshalls who arrive from the left running directly to Rossi firstly.
This is not equal treatment.
As for your hyperbolic comments about marshalls risking their lives pushing Stoner along the track, well that may be partially valid but they could just have easily been injured whilst standing in the sandtrap etc. Besides which, the issue of bikes NOT slowing under a yellow flag is something that I have raised many many times and always gets glossed over, and as such the riders themselves must also take responsibility when yellow flags are displayed.
You do not like Stoner at all and that is your opinion, something I will defend but in the case of the Jerez marshalls he had a valid issue in terms of equal assistance (IMO) but as I have stated numerous times, I do not feel that marshalls should push a bike at all but remove it, sadly rules at this stage allow marshalls to put themselves at risk (was it Jerez again where they pushes the moto3 bike across the track?)
Does Stoner receive the equal level of treatment as Rossi in this incident?
That is/was his contention at the time and IMO from the many varied video angles of the incident the answer is a clear no, he did not get the same level of assistance. At no stage does he get the same number of marshalls assisting him as did Rossi
Call me bias (I am sure some will) but the video clearly shows a discrepancy in the numbers who attend to each rider and actally show teh second group of marshalls who arrive from the left running directly to Rossi firstly.
This is not equal treatment.
As for your hyperbolic comments about marshalls risking their lives pushing Stoner along the track, well that may be partially valid but they could just have easily been injured whilst standing in the sandtrap etc. Besides which, the issue of bikes NOT slowing under a yellow flag is something that I have raised many many times and always gets glossed over, and as such the riders themselves must also take responsibility when yellow flags are displayed.
You do not like Stoner at all and that is your opinion, something I will defend but in the case of the Jerez marshalls he had a valid issue in terms of equal assistance (IMO) but as I have stated numerous times, I do not feel that marshalls should push a bike at all but remove it, sadly rules at this stage allow marshalls to put themselves at risk (was it Jerez again where they pushes the moto3 bike across the track?)
As i'm sure you are aware having been a marshal. It's not always possible to give equal attention at the same time. Should they have told rossi who's bike was running to wait until stoners had been push started? The question you keep asking can not be answered as a simple yes or no as you know full well !
This old Jerez argument is now just being used as a smoke screen to detract from what we should be talking about, Stoner criticizing the german marshals which was bang out of order.
As for just removing bikes rather than attempting to re-start, i am in full agreement. myself bonny, wilski and arrab watched in horror at donny a few years back when the marshals tried to re-start a very dazed waldmann at starkys. How nobody was killed was a miracle.
Yes Rog, as a marshall I do fully know that in two (or more) bike situations often attention is inadvertently focused onto one rider/bike over and above others and as I have stated in this thread, to me the marshalls became starstruck and inadvertently focused on Rossi.
However, when he was restarted most started to leave (I do believe they thought Stoner's bike was running) but only 3 or 4 marshalls of the approximate 12 that attended even tried to assist, and of those the majority after Rossi had departed. This I believe has been the crux of Stoner's complains about Jerez, that he had to ask for help as opposed to being given it (again, we are using comparison here and not our own thoughts on what should be the situation).
As I outlined in my reply to Goat, it is clear that more marshalls run to attend and assist Rossi than do Stoner.
Was he fair to criticise in this case ................... IMO yes he had a valid point (not a valid point about failure to push start as that marshall did IMO go beyond)
IMO, no it is not as Stoner was out of line in Germany and as I have stated should be lighter in the pocket because of it.
Jerez was fair and valid criticism of the actions (IMO) but Germany was frustration and petulance.
The reason Jerez is being mentioned and defended is that it is/was a clear difference to the German accident and I am yet to actually see/read of Stoner being defended for his German criticisms (in any form I frequent), and rightly so.
Was it Jerez again this year where the inequitable treatment was again raised ............. moto3 from memory
We had one rider crash and the marshalls took his bike from his and carried it away whilst at a separate point of the track (may even have been the same point as Stoner/Rossi) they pushed across a live track to restart as bikes came down?
As for marshalls on track, IMO the rule should be simple that at no stage during a live race is a marshall to set foot onto the tarmac (as opposed to gravel) unless expressly advised by race control. Further to this rule they need to monitor and check on rider times through the section that has the displayed yellow flags (when a marshall is on track they should display for more that the preceding 2 points but nearer 4) and where a riders time through that section has not slowed, they must be penalised
We are spending time reading and typing about Stoner's comments to marshalls, and you rightly raise the danger that marshalls face, but what of the other riders who disrespect yellow flags and continue at race pace whilst marshalls attend to the fallen?
These riders are also negligent and can create as much if not more concern than any comments ................. on this I am very strong in my feelings (I do know marshalls who have been or nearly been struck by inattentive riders)
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
You asked me to elaborate with facts. I did. There is no evidence that being a marshal is all that dangerous.
I asked you to offer any examples of marshals ever getting anything worse than a hernia and you offered
nothing. Your basic response is: Ooooh being a marshal is scary and if Keshav doesn't think so .... etc.
The fact is it's not all that dangerous. Most of the guys who do it are middle-aged duffers who love the
sport. But you contrive to make what they do seem like they're firemen or Navy Seals, because it you
believe that painting them as such, will imbue them some kind of fabulous moral gravity that makes
them beyond reproach, so you can get all sanctimonius while "defending them" in an attempt to make your weak argument appear more substantial than it really is. In a word, "pettifogging".
Attachments
I have never been a marshall, but I have been on the medical crew at sporting events including a motor race once (I went with a friend who was an anaesthetist; I probably wouldn't have been much use) but you are correct people do it because they are big fans, want to participate in the sport they love in some way, and because you get the best seats in the house. As you say they don't have to press gang them to do it.
This doesn't mean they are ignoble, or not prepared to put themselves on the line if required, which they can and do. However anyone who thinks volunteer officials vital for any sport and giving their time for free never show favouritism has obviously not watched many junior football or cricket games.
Stoner was very much out of line in criticising the sachsenring marshalls for doing their job, which is what the opening post said and with which no-one disagrees, but the discussion point raised and not by a "neobopper" in that post was that he could understand some disappointment under the circumstances of the jerez incident.
Anyway, the general malice on here has gotten out of control, including towards barry who is seldom if ever malicious himself, whether or not he is annoying. I have justified my own stuff because I see myself as responding to malice rather than initiating it, but can see that this is a cop out.
Have to agree Michael and it to the detriment of the forum that we now seem to have keyboard wars perpetuated by keyboard heroes who just seem to like to insult, berate and abuse many who have the temerity to disagree with their view, rather than participate in reasoned and thoughtful debate which had been so prevalent in this place for years.
The sad part from my eyes is that it is not one person specifically, nor fans of any one rider but is nonetheless tiresome
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
I think we may see a bit more liberal use of "criticism" by Casey for the rest of this year.
Some of that criticism may not be warranted, and could actually be a personal beat up by Stoner himself as he may want to continue to reinforce, to himself. why he is retiring. Keep the anger so to speak.
It would have been a difficult decision to retire, and the last thing you want is regret.
Some of that criticism may not be warranted, and could actually be a personal beat up by Stoner himself as he may want to continue to reinforce, to himself. why he is retiring. Keep the anger so to speak.
It would have been a difficult decision to retire, and the last thing you want is regret.
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
Oh that Barry is gone, I'm in Malicious 101 now, well trying to be ........ they seem to be mindlessly enjoying it, so I thought I would join them.
But don't worry, if folk aren't malicious/childish/idiotic with me I shant be so towards them.
Joined Apr 2008
7K Posts | 3K+
Out of Nowhere
Oh that Barry is gone, I'm in Malicious 101 now, well trying to be ........ they seem to be mindlessly enjoying it, so I thought I would join them.
But don't worry, if folk aren't malicious/childish/idiotic with me I shant be so towards them.
No one is worried Barry - trust me. You'll just make yourself look daft and end up on half the forums ignore list. Why do you come on here anyway? You seem to take pride in alienating yourself from 90% of the active membership. Most of your posts revolve about either you, your braggadocios claims and incessant self aggrandising, Casey Stoner as the Messiah, or blatantly derived from facts lifted from google.
Like Jum says, if someone posts something you don't like - what are you going to do? - unleash your arsenal of images which thus far consists of a picture of rear bicycle wheel and the 'Troy says you're gay' little gem?
Historically, it's not hard to see why you are treated with the contempt you deserve. Every time a member posts something that doesn't accord with the world of Barry Machine you pour disdain on them, dismiss them as an ..... followed by a succession of 'roll eyes' emoticons. Instead of threatening to troll, why don't you debate in a structured and rational way respond with words, argue your point coherently, or try to outwit someone? I am happy to constructively debate the difference between say powersliding and backing in without descending into hurling insults at one another. Every time I've tried you either get abusive, backpedal or fly off at another oblique Barry tangent.
You have asked me to be civil to you - I have tried this approach before and been greeted solely with contempt. I take on board your request and am more than happy to try again and we'll see how you respond if/when you disagree with me.
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
Nup try again .........way too "malicious" and way too verbose for the real content needed to be discussed.
Do I have to use the skid pic for your usual posts, not just the idiotic claims of bestiality etc.?
Try again ....... without the petty sooking crap.
What do you want to discuss .... without all the how much everyone hates me crap ( do you really think this matters?), that has what use here?
What is your point other than the tomes of verbose crap you wrote about this.
Try this ...... you have 1 three sentence paragraph to get your point across.
Do I have to use the skid pic for your usual posts, not just the idiotic claims of bestiality etc.?
Try again ....... without the petty sooking crap.
What do you want to discuss .... without all the how much everyone hates me crap ( do you really think this matters?), that has what use here?
What is your point other than the tomes of verbose crap you wrote about this.
Try this ...... you have 1 three sentence paragraph to get your point across.
Joined Apr 2008
7K Posts | 3K+
Out of Nowhere
You can use whatever picture you want in conjunction with any of my posts, no worries I will respond in words. Regarding bestiality - that was your claim remember? No malicious intent, I was trying to reason with you and I didn't say you were hated rather, I just tired to explain why you tended to be treated with contempt.
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
Getting close ............. holding back .........
oh .... it!!
its just easier to be a prick like you. And likely more personally productive for me.
oh .... it!!
its just easier to be a prick like you. And likely more personally productive for me.
Joined Apr 2008
7K Posts | 3K+
Out of Nowhere
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
I don't believe I ever implied that the marshals were in any way unworthy. My point was about a certain person's overuse of hyperbole.
Agreed about the maliciousness. If someone's really that much of a dimwit - I put them on ignore. I get tired of being sucked into the bickering. Re: Barry - he can be a bit much but I have to hand it to him in as much as he doesn't really seem to get as angry as some of us and doesn't take himself too seriously - which we're all pretty much guilty of.
I absolutely agree with you, I was being diplomatic, as was apparently my former wont, god knows why.
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
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