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Schwantz comments on MM/VR

Last weekend alone:

- Punted Aleix
- Punted Rossi
- Punted Syahrin ( )
- Almost punted Rabat.

Before last weekend:

- MM to Wilairot at PI
- MM on Lorenzo at Jerez.
- MM to Corsi
- MM to Sofuoglu at Valencia
- MM to Pol at Catalunya
- MM to Luthi at Qatar
- MM to Dani at Aragon
- MM almost killing track marshalls at Silverstone
- MM taking out Bautista at Qatar 2012
- MM taking out Kallio at PI 2012
- MM knocking Rossi at Turn 3 at 250km/h at PI 2017
- MM on Rossi at Laguna 13

After a 10 year career, he has done much more and much worse than Rossi has in 22 years. There's no comparison.
 
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RCV600RR said:
Last weekend alone:

- Punted Aleix
- Punted Rossi
- Punted Syahrin ( )
- Almost punted Rabat.

Before last weekend:

- MM to Wilairot at PI
- MM on Lorenzo at Jerez.
- MM to Corsi
- MM to Sofuoglu at Valencia
- MM to Pol at Catalunya
- MM to Luthi at Qatar
- MM to Dani at Aragon
- MM almost killing track marshalls at Silverstone
- MM taking out Bautista at Qatar 2012
- MM taking out Kallio at PI 2012
- MM knocking Rossi at Turn 3 at 250km/h at PI 2017
- MM on Rossi at Laguna 13

After a 10 year career, he has done much more and much worse than Rossi has in 22 years. There's no comparison.
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Absolute Bopper garbage. :rolleyes:

Actually. Given you are making a mountain out of a molehill and are trying to list every touch Marquez has ever had. Thats a pretty mild list.

Dont list rossis "incidents" ..... you'll crash the internet.

Do you realise the damage you are doing to rossis image with your crap? Keep going.
 
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RCV600RR said:
Last weekend alone:

- Punted Aleix
- Punted Rossi
- Punted Syahrin ( )
- Almost punted Rabat.

Before last weekend:

- MM to Wilairot at PI
- MM on Lorenzo at Jerez.
- MM to Corsi
- MM to Sofuoglu at Valencia
- MM to Pol at Catalunya
- MM to Luthi at Qatar
- MM to Dani at Aragon
- MM almost killing track marshalls at Silverstone
- MM taking out Bautista at Qatar 2012
- MM taking out Kallio at PI 2012
- MM knocking Rossi at Turn 3 at 250km/h at PI 2017
- MM on Rossi at Laguna 13

After a 10 year career, he has done much more and much worse than Rossi has in 22 years. There's no comparison.
Click to expand...

Wilaroit = no excuse
Lorenzo Jerez- really, he knew he could get away with it because Rossi actually wrecked Gibernau at the same corner
Rossi at PI 17 You talking about where Marc had the inside and Rossi like last weekend tried closing the door to a much faster rider
Dani at Aragon :contact so slight even Dani had no idea,
freak occurrence
MM on Rossi at Laguna , I’m not sure what you are talking about. Is it the one where Marc had Rossi passed and Rossi forced him off track and he went ahead and made he pass leaving the track .
So really what we have is Moto2 instances, do we need to go back into Rossi’s 125 and 250 days.
 
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RCV600RR said:
Last weekend alone:

- Punted Aleix
- Punted Rossi
- Punted Syahrin ( )
- Almost punted Rabat.

Before last weekend:

- MM to Wilairot at PI
- MM on Lorenzo at Jerez.
- MM to Corsi
- MM to Sofuoglu at Valencia
- MM to Pol at Catalunya
- MM to Luthi at Qatar
- MM to Dani at Aragon
- MM almost killing track marshalls at Silverstone
- MM taking out Bautista at Qatar 2012
- MM taking out Kallio at PI 2012
- MM knocking Rossi at Turn 3 at 250km/h at PI 2017
- MM on Rossi at Laguna 13

After a 10 year career, he has done much more and much worse than Rossi has in 22 years. There's no comparison.
Click to expand...


As has been said, no-one is denying his form as a moto 2 rider, one of those you dispute actually dubbed him Murder Marc, imo justly as was my view at the time.

If you want someone to list every block pass Rossi has made in his career, as you are every touch from MM, it would be in the several hundreds; as has been said, he has had a license to make such passes since early in his career, and opposing riders have responded by mostly standing their bikes up which he elected not to do himself on this occasion. The 4 incidents I listed were the particularly egregious ones, 2 of them absolutely deliberate. He has punted riders other than in those 4 incidents, including one where he broke the other rider’s leg. There were more aggressive incidents than this one several times a lap for the first half of the LS 08 race, it is just that Stoner chose to avoid collision, including when he put his bike into the dirt to lose the race, and the corkscrew which would have been a high speed collision with unknown consequences absolutely out of Valentino’s control. Stoner was told “this is racing”, and reviled by Rossi fandom for being peeved about actual rather than theoretical danger only avoided by his prompt action. If you want to re-visit ancient history, even the famous Biaggi elbow was when Rossi tried to stick his bike inside Max in a corner with Max not having much place to go.

It is the double standards which people have tired of over the years, which I expect from Rossi and that element among his fandom if not so much from you.
 
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michaelm said:
If you want someone to list every block pass Rossi has made in his career, as you are every touch from MM, it would be in the several hundreds;
Click to expand...
That's because block passes are completely legitimate. The incidents I've cited aren't. Surely we aren't at the point where we are objecting that Rossi uses block passes (being the most common passing manoeuvre in motorcycle racing)?

michaelm said:
The 4 incidents I listed were the particularly egregious ones, 2 of them absolutely deliberate. He has punted riders other than in those 4 incidents, including one where he broke the other rider’s leg.
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4 incidents in 22 years? That's much better than most.

The Sepang incident was inexcusable. I always have mentioned that Rossi's move on Sete at Jerez should not have been permitted either.

Pardon my amnesia, but when did he break another rider's leg?

michaelm said:
There were more aggressive incidents than this one several times a lap for the first half of the LS 08 race, it is just that Stoner chose to avoid collision,
Click to expand...
Totally legitimate passes, other than the corkscrew pass. Right before the Corkscrew pass, Stoner leaned on Rossi's bike, so it certainly wasn't one way traffic.


michaelm said:
including when he put his bike into the dirt to lose the race,
Click to expand...
Stoner himself admitted that when he ran off that was his own mistake.

michaelm said:
If you want to re-visit ancient history, even the famous Biaggi elbow was when Rossi tried to stick his bike inside Max in a corner with Max not having much place to go.
Click to expand...
Perfectly legitimate pass. Rossi took him around the outside, and Biaggi stood his bike up to run Rossi off. The steering input is clear. As Doohan said "Cadalora ran me onto the grass coming out of a sixth-gear right-hander at Shah Alam once, just ran up beside me and actually pushed me off the track. I'd never go that far. I'd say Gardner, Cadalora and Biaggi were the three worst guys I raced with. Biaggi even tries to intimate people on slowdown laps".

michaelm said:
It is the double standards which people have tired of over the years, which I expect from Rossi and that element among his fandom if not so much from you.
Click to expand...
I didn't say Rossi hasn't sinned. I said Rossi's sins in pale in comparison to Marquez's (as detailed above).
 
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One thing that strikes me in all this ...Marquez always keeps a dignified silence while flossi does all the talking,next time he's asked about it he needs to quote the 'this is racing' remark and ask all the media where have they heard it before?,the hypocrisy of a certain yellow italian knows no bounds..
 
michaelm said:
Actually being able to find a doorknob is perhaps another stage in your own intellectual advancement. If you work out one day how to use one to open a door for Valentino perhaps you might have prospects of taking over Uccio’s job.
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SICK BURN, MITCHELL!!! HOW DO YOU EVEN COME UP WITH THESE?!?
 
BarryMachine said:
Im going to give you the benefit ....

No happy person would come out with the crap you do.

Maybe you need to talk to someone .....

Are you ok?
Click to expand...

The trouble with Synn and people of his ilk is that they do everything possible to insult others from the safety net of a keyboard, knowing full well that they won't be called out. IMO it shows a lack of humanity. We only have to look around us today to see how hard done by so many people are when they throw round insults on a perpetual basis, yet add nothing to the dialogue in question. :sad2:
 
RCV600RR said:
That's because block passes are completely legitimate. The incidents I've cited aren't. Surely we aren't at the point where we are objecting that Rossi uses block passes (being the most common passing manoeuvre in motorcycle racing)?


4 incidents in 22 years? That's much better than most.

The Sepang incident was inexcusable. I always have mentioned that Rossi's move on Sete at Jerez should not have been permitted either.

Pardon my amnesia, but when did he break another rider's leg?


Totally legitimate passes, other than the corkscrew pass. Right before the Corkscrew pass, Stoner leaned on Rossi's bike, so it certainly wasn't one way traffic.



Stoner himself admitted that when he ran off that was his own mistake.


Perfectly legitimate pass. Rossi took him around the outside, and Biaggi stood his bike up to run Rossi off. The steering input is clear.


I didn't say Rossi hasn't sinned. I said Rossi's sins in pale in comparison to Marquez's (as detailed above).
Click to expand...

Marquez has been penalised and banned from races. This last race he was penalised 3 times. As for Rossi, it’s much more than 4 ‘incidents’. For instance, did you know they warned Rossi for blocking in qualifying in 15? Yep, it really did happen. No penalty of course, but in an attempt to show impartiality, he lost a point on his licence. Then there was bringing the sport into disrepute, an unfounded claim of conspiracy, made publically. How to deal with that? To go with that, it’s 4 absolutely clear cut penalties which were not issued. No penalty at all. So what to do now. I know, PENALISE. Marquez I mean, not Rossi, 4 ‘incidents in 30 years, the man is an angel.

The problem ain’t the riders it’s the governance of the sport, including summoning the person supposedly in charge to the motorhome, with subsequent removal of points licence system. From that point there is no way back. I get you want Marquez penalised even more, probably a 1 year ban because he is much much worse than Rossi. The reality is he’s not, I can’t see a single incident which could be called premeditated. Wilarot was plain insane, could of killed himself as much as anything else. I don’t remember a whole lot of outrage from Rossi fans then, in fact I seem to recall a lot of disgruntled boppers saying he was a real racer who had scared Stoner into retirement. marquez was the new Rossi then. Ah how the times have changed. Are you not entertained RC? Do you really want MM banned for a season? By coincidence, exactly what VR wants. Is it really about MM being dangerous or more likely the elusive 10th? .... if Wilairot was the problem why did you and Schwantz wait so long to call for the longer ban?
 
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birdman said:
Marquez has been penalised and banned from races. This last race he was penalised 3 times. As for Rossi, it’s much more than 4 ‘incidents’. For instance, did you know they warned Rossi for blocking in qualifying in 15? Yep, it really did happen. No penalty of course, but in an attempt to show impartiality, he lost a point on his licence. Then there was bringing the sport into disrepute, an unfounded claim of conspiracy, made publically. How to deal with that? To go with that, it’s 4 absolutely clear cut penalties which were not issued. No penalty at all. So what to do now. I know, PENALISE. Marquez I mean, not Rossi, 4 ‘incidents in 30 years, the man is an angel.

The problem ain’t the riders it’s the governance of the sport, including summoning the person supposedly in charge to the motorhome, with subsequent removal of points licence system. From that point there is no way back. I get you want Marquez penalised even more, probably a 1 year ban because he is much much worse than Rossi. The reality is he’s not, I can’t see a single incident which could be called premeditated. Wilarot was plain insane, could of killed himself as much as anything else. I don’t remember a whole lot of outrage from Rossi fans then, in fact I seem to recall a lot of disgruntled boppers saying he was a real racer who had scared Stoner into retirement. marquez was the new Rossi then. Ah how the times have changed. Are you not entertained RC? Do you really want MM banned for a season? By coincidence, exactly what VR wants. Is it really about MM being dangerous or more likely the elusive 10th? .... if Wilairot was the problem why did you and Schwantz wait so long to call for the longer ban?
Click to expand...


This post is a textbook example of a strawman argument that doesn't merit a response. Somehow you've imagined that I want MM to be banned because...you have a vivid imagination.
 
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I wonder if Stoner thought there was more than 4 indiscretions during LS08, in his book he does mention a lot happened that the cameras didn't see.

Anyway with this one fresh in the mind it's easy to pick out all things Marquez did wrong in this one race, Rossi has the advantage of time erasing other misdeeds he had done. Not one person has yet mentioned when he kicked another rider in the 250s for example when comparing the two.
 
danski said:
Has anyone mentioned Stoner punching details Puniet
Click to expand...

Yes, it was immediately after he avoided an incident of the Willairot variety which would have been entirely DePuniet’s fault, after running a personal crusade in regard to the dangers of differential speeds resulting from riders dawdling on the racing line on a live track, for which he was much pilloried by fans of a certain rider despite being absolutely 100% correct, as the Willairot incident later illustrated despite being a reverse case in terms of the at fault rider.

Even I didn’t agree with how he prosecuted his case; David Emmett who was an occasional poster on here at the time when I asked him what the view was in the paddock rather than among the Valeban said words to the effect that he was considered to have a point but was being a .... about it. Stoner himself said that the De Piiniet incident st least made the authorities look at the issue in regard to which he had hitherto been completely ignored.
 
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RCV600RR said:
This post is a textbook example of a strawman argument that doesn't merit a response. Somehow you've imagined that I want MM to be banned because...you have a vivid imagination.
Click to expand...

How convenient for you to concentrate on the rhetorical part of the argument.

Very specifically, in terms of Rossi vs MM, the score is 2 DNFs for MM after contact with Rossi, one as a result of an absolutely deliberate attempt to run MM off the track to which Rossi admitted which left MM on the tarmac of a live track during a race as against this 1 DNF from Rossi after putting his bike down on the grass.

In race suspensions for Rossi in his premier class career 0 even for the 4 incidents you concede were more dangerous than this one, 2 for MM, one of which could have cost him a championship, was an error by his crew in regard to to a rule literally made up 5 minutes before the race and probably not explained to his crew by a speaker of Spanish. I would be happy for his crew to have been banned for the incident or on general principles btw. Meanwhile the major safety issue at that PI race was where the morons, probably pretty much the same people who black flagged MM, chose to have the riders re -enter the track from the pits.


Also btw, by the same argument you apply to Rossi most of the MM incidents you mention can’t have been illegal or dirty because he wasn’t penalised. To muse further, I wonder why Valentino didn’t try a Jerez 2005 or LS 08 move on Tony Elias, or why he whinged so much about moves Elias put on him, which weren”t penalised and hence can’t have been illegal.
 
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This thread is hilarious.

You have myopic "fans" of the sport who ignore Rossi has by far been the dirtiest rider since the 4-stroke era began. He skated by all penalties including what should have been a black flag at Sepang 2015.

Heavy contact in racing is something Rossi brought to the sport the moment he decided to ram Gibernau off the track at Jerez.

MM has made mistakes, but in Argentina he did nothing wrong. The 30 second penalty was ludicrous and only handed out because it was Rossi. Double standards by race direction as usual. Rossi ran wide and left a gap, that is his fault. If he wanted to maintain position he shouldn't have done it. Instead MM nearly lost the front end and made contact in a pure racing incident. That no other penalties were issued given some of the other incidents that went on during the grand prix, it's more than obvious MM was specifically targeted because of the rider involved.

Nothing but hypocritical Rossi fans in this topic as usual. Blinded by the yellow, unable to accept their hero is nothing but a fraud who has been the worst thing to ever happen to grand prix motorcycle racing.
 
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