Schwantz comments on MM/VR

BarryMachine · Apr 20, 2018

McZee said:
I agree that it is up to the rider doing the overtake to do it safely and sometimes Marc goes in too hard. I don't think anyone on here has disputed that, they would be nuts if they did.
The general beef is the lack of consistency in terms of both journalistic and disciplinary treatment especially when juxtaposed with Vale.

In relation to the problem being that Marc rides a track like he is alone, it could also be argued that it is also because he rides a track like nobody else (on the current roster) can.

Marquez did not go in too hard. FFS this is racing.

I cant believe how many of you folk have got so sucked in by the absolute ........ involved in this latest rossi whinge.

Do yourself a favour and watch Valencia 2015 I believe. Then tell me you havent been sucked in.

Segfault · Apr 20, 2018

@p4p1

BS. You can hear the rider coming from behind. Look how Dovi treated Marc's overoptimistic pass attempts. Stubbornly trying to block the pass in process, whether it is realistic pass or not, is not safe. It takes two to tango. It is up to both riders involved to make it safe and if one makes a mistake then it is the duty of the other to react and maintain the safety.

Keshav · Apr 20, 2018

Segfault said:
@p4p1

BS. You can hear the rider coming from behind. Look how Dovi treated Marc's overoptimistic pass attempts. Stubbornly trying to block the pass in process, whether it is realistic pass or not, is not safe. It takes two to tango. It is up to both riders involved to make it safe and if one makes a mistake then it is the duty of the other to react and maintain the safety.

I expect you're right. Tho given how insanely loud GP bikes are I bet there's got to be a certain amount of sonic overlay from bikes directly in-front and behind when there are multiple bikes within one tenth of a second away, making it not so easy to discern where anyone is at any given moment.

McZee · Apr 20, 2018

BarryMachine said:
Marquez did not go in too hard. FFS this is racing.

I cant believe how many of you folk have got so sucked in by the absolute ........ involved in this latest rossi whinge.

Do yourself a favour and watch Valencia 2015 I believe. Then tell me you havent been sucked in.

I think you might have got hold of the wrong end of the stick, mate. All I said was that SOMETIMES Marc has gone in too hard.
In relation to Argentina, he said himself that the front went on the wet so he had to let off the front anchors so came in a bit too quick. I'm not busting his chops about this, it was just a racing incident and I don't think it should have been penalised.
For me the biggest outrage of the whole thing has been Vale's reaction about being scared and Marc destroying the sport.
Marc is a once in a multi-generation talent. I can only think of Casey who is as fast, but there's nobody who could/can flirt with the absolute edge like Marc can.

Theo · Apr 20, 2018

p4p1 said:
Yet he calls Petrucci the most dangerous rider in the paddock. He believes Marquez should've got a black flag, but he also believes that other riders should get black flags for their incidents. He is asking for parity when giving penalties and at the end of the day, the 30 second penalty was as good as a black flag.

He also believes Marquez should've got a penalty for hittin him not for hitting Rossi.

A. Asparagus, the biggest non finisher in racing, what the hell he's doing on a track I haven't a clue.

synn · Apr 20, 2018

Theo said:
A. Asparagus, the biggest non finisher in racing, what the hell he's doing on a track I haven't a clue.

Lapping faster than you on your couch.
You’re welcome.

Theo · Apr 20, 2018

Keshav said:
I expect you're right. Tho given how insanely loud GP bikes are I bet there's got to be a certain amount of sonic overlay from bikes directly in-front and behind when there are multiple bikes within one tenth of a second away, making it not so easy to discern where anyone is at any given moment.

But Rossi was a country mile behind the next rider, unless of course he's deaf and can't hear.
My grandfather always used to say, there's none so deaf as those who don't want to hear.

Jumkie · Apr 20, 2018

p4p1 said:
It's ridiculous this incident might be the catalyst for positive change though. There's been so many worse ones in even just the past 5 years, yet nothing has been said or changed because it wasn't Rossi on the receiving end.

You don't need to go back that far. After the 2015 debacle, this should have been the catalyst for change. What can be more egregious than deliberately crashing out a rider?

This is why Rossi's career has been artificially extended. He races with a technical hardware, personals, and exceptional treatment that is exclusively confidence inducing and this is repeatedly affirmed by every body and everything. The mindset of his racing is such that: nobody is allowed to race him hard, others must fend for themselves, any incident involving him is automatically judged in his favor, vendors and components providers to the series must acquiesce to his demands (tires), race direction is an enforcement arm of Rossi (Mike Webb), the team boss Dim Jarvis) favors him even when their two riders have a dispute, the very CEO of the organization (Carmelo Ezpaleta) acts as his personal sport agent. The norms of the sport, the very craft of racing has been altered. Rossi not only has a 1:4 chance of wining the title every year, but those chances increase significantly to 1:3, 1:2, based on the lopsided influence he enjoys. This notion of catalyst for "positive change" is perverted as you point out.

Iamapony · Apr 20, 2018

Holy ....! All this over Kevin's typical diatribe? He wouldn't even have a title if Wayne's bike hadn't sucked ... and Wayne had not been hurt. Perhaps we should suspend all the riders who bumped more than once over the last thirty years. What say you Kevin? I think you might have missed a season, if they played by your rules back then. lol. Meanwhile, Giacomo Agostini seems to think Rossi maybe should STFU. And Freddie Spencer didn't like the rulings, and he has a lot more creds than KS. Jeebuz, was Schwantz even a contender?

p4p1 · Apr 20, 2018

Iamapony said:
Holy ....! All this over Kevin's typical diatribe? He wouldn't even have a title if Wayne's bike hadn't sucked ... and Wayne had not been hurt. Perhaps we should suspend all the riders who bumped more than once over the last thirty years. What say you Kevin? I think you might have missed a season, if they played by your rules back then. lol. Meanwhile, Giacomo Agostini seems to think Rossi maybe should STFU. And Freddie Spencer didn't like the rulings, and he has a lot more creds than KS. Jeebuz, was Schwantz even a contender?

Wayne hurting himself + Doohan still recovering from injuries.

Keshav · Apr 20, 2018

Iamapony said:
Holy ....! All this over Kevin's typical diatribe? He wouldn't even have a title if Wayne's bike hadn't sucked ... and Wayne had not been hurt. Perhaps we should suspend all the riders who bumped more than once over the last thirty years. What say you Kevin? I think you might have missed a season, if they played by your rules back then. lol. Meanwhile, Giacomo Agostini seems to think Rossi maybe should STFU. And Freddie Spencer didn't like the rulings, and he has a lot more creds than KS. Jeebuz, was Schwantz even a contender?

p4p1 said:
Wayne hurting himself + Doohan still recovering from injuries.

Aww... come one guys. This retroactively trying to discredit Schwantz is kinda ridiculous. The guy won against the greats of his time and even they speak of him years later with respect. As to Rainey's bike being ....., really??? It was considered the best at the time and the Suzuki was universally considered to be technically several steps down from the Yamahas and Hondas, as it was (same as today) much underfunded - both the bike and the team. Speaking of injuries - for those with short memories - Schwantz who was a ....... wildman, crashed a lot trying to take that insane Suzuki to the podium and was constantly written up in the press that specifically wrote about how gutsy he was to ride in that no-holds barred way in as much pain as he was in, and that was in the day when medical sciences were not nearly as advanced as those of today.

It's not to say that he can't be wrong... but to downplay his championship is some serious revisionist .........

michaelm · Apr 20, 2018

Double

michaelm · Apr 20, 2018

Keshav said:
Aww... come one guys. This retroactively trying to discredit Schwantz is kinda ridiculous. The guy won against the greats of his time and even they him p with respect. As to Rainey's bike being ....., really??? It was considered the best at the time and the Suzuki was universally considered to be technically several steps down from the Yamahas and Hondas, as it was (same as today) much underfunded - both the bike and the team. Speaking of injuries - for those with short memories - Schwantz who was a ....... wildman, crashed a lot trying to take that insane Suzuki and was constantly written up in the press that specifically wrote about how gutsy he was to ride in that no-holds barred way in as much pain as he was in, and that was in the day when medical sciences were not nearly as advanced as those of today.

It's not to say that he can't be wrong... but to downplay his championship is some serious revisionist .........

I was going to say the same, 25 wins on a Suzuki against some of the greatest riders of all time is utterly indisputable.

Doesn’t make him immune from talking drivel in his retirement, as Wayne Gardner whom I equally revered as a racer has also had a strong tendency to do.

Iamapony · Apr 20, 2018

Keshav said:
Aww... come one guys. This retroactively trying to discredit Schwantz is kinda ridiculous. The guy won against the greats of his time and even they speak of him years later with respect. As to Rainey's bike being ....., really??? It was considered the best at the time and the Suzuki was universally considered to be technically several steps down from the Yamahas and Hondas, as it was (same as today) much underfunded - both the bike and the team. Speaking of injuries - for those with short memories - Schwantz who was a ....... wildman, crashed a lot trying to take that insane Suzuki and was constantly written up in the press that specifically wrote about how gutsy he was to ride in that no-holds barred way in as much pain as he was in, and that was in the day when medical sciences were not nearly as advanced as those of today.

It's not to say that he can't be wrong... but to downplay his championship is some serious revisionist .........

Revisionist? Rainey was leading the Championship and leading the race when he crashed and was paralyzed. Rainey actually got a different frame from an outside source, because the Yamaha chassis was so bad. I will find the name of the company, later. I do not remember it, now. EDIT: HA. It is actually in the article that I linked below:

... Rainey struggling so badly that he junked his factory chassis and switched to a Swiss-made ROC.

I just think Kevin has a lot of nerve suggesting MM should be suspended for an entire season, considering all the dangerous stuff he did when he raced. So I am going to stick it to him for talking ..... ;-)
motorsports magazine

1993 was different from the get-go. Yamaha had taken a wrong turn in chassis development, building a chassis of extruded sections of aluminium that was far too stiff and thus overworked the tyres. This episode was almost certainly the start of the factory’s understanding of the science of controlled flex in chassis design. It’s worth remembering that Yamaha’s current MotoGP boss Masahiko Nakajima worked on Rainey’s YZR500s. At the same time Suzuki had finally got their fickle RGV500 properly dialled in, so for once, Yamaha didn’t have the best bike.

yamfan · Apr 20, 2018

Rainey turned to French company ROC for the frame, after being told he couldn’t have his previous year’s frame because it had been crushed as per company policy at the time.
He was ultimately forced to use the current factory frame which led to his misano crash.
Ironically Yamaha’s poor and draconian treatment of Rainey taught them a harsh lesson and gave them 10 years in the doldrums. Since then they’ve bent over backwards for their riders and Rossi and Lorenzo delivered them several titles.

Iamapony · Apr 20, 2018

Thanks, I was editing my post as you posted. Can you imagine someone doing that, today. I don't think so. lol

Keshav · Apr 21, 2018

Iamapony said:
Revisionist? Rainey was leading the Championship and leading the race when he crashed and was paralyzed. Rainey actually got a different frame from an outside source, because the Yamaha chassis was so bad. I will find the name of the company, later. I do not remember it, now. EDIT: HA. It is actually in the article that I linked below:

I just think Kevin has a lot of nerve suggesting MM should be suspended for an entire season, considering all the dangerous stuff he did when he raced. So I am going to stick it to him for talking ..... ;-)
motorsports magazine

Using outside frames was more common than the average fan would have been aware of. I've mentioned this before several times. Erv Kanemoto was often at odds with Honda for doing this. Japanese makers were historically more focused on the engines. Lots of European teams were using frames from non-Japanese companies. Every chassis was distinctly different as were the hand-welded expansion chambers. That the Yamaha made more useable power (relative to engines of that time) was widely accepted at the time.

Who was "leading" the championship is not a de facto indicator of the championship results. Look who's leading now.

Arrabbiata1 · Apr 21, 2018

Keshav said:
Using outside frames was more common than the average fan would have been aware of. I've mentioned this before several times. Erv Kanemoto was often at odds with Honda for doing this. Japanese makers were historically more focused on the engines. Lots of European teams were using frames from non-Japanese companies. Every chassis was distinctly different as were the hand-welded expansion chambers. That the Yamaha made more useable power (relative to engines of that time) was widely accepted at the time.

Who was "leading" the championship is not a de facto indicator of the championship results. Look who's leading now.

In 1984 as I recall, Sheene dumped the original Suzuki chassis in favour of a specially built Harris steel tube set up using his own requirements regarding head angle etc,

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