Qatar Motorcycle Grand Prix - Round 19

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IIRC, Jorge was in Third, with Dovi behind him. Dovi had to win to keep championship alive vs Marc. Lorenzo never ceded position citing after the race it would have been worse for Dovi as he had superior pace and was dragging Dovi towards the front.

Correct. This has been a running joke for me and some former member whenever someone loses pace or something unexpected happens. I've been using the term map 8 for years.
 
I swear if one more person says "lightly tapped" I'm going to lose my ..... How many times in anger has someone chose to lightly tap someone? You either hit someone or don't. Its not like Aleix blew in his ear and then brushed his neck giving him goosebumps. Fucksake. Aleix blew off a double yellow, made a harsh pass on FM, and then lightly tapped him. Thats the stupidest .... I have ever heard.

Excuse my toxic manhood please.
You didn’t suffer from toxic manhood in 2016 eh Mdub? 🤣🤣
Aliex is luck Morbidelli didn’t go all Arthur Shelby on him! 👊🤣

IMG_5861.png
 
IMO only on the 'team orders' stuff.

As unpalatable as it may be, and as piss poor as I find it at a personal level, .... me if I do not understand the Ducati approach and, well, agree with it.

Sure it makes a mockery of the 'fair' nature of the sport but the sport has not been 'fair' for some time, else all riders would be on equal machinery and so forth.

Were I running Ducati I would be 'encouraging' my riders to make Dovi's life easier and Marquez's harder, but I would also be making sure that all was well within the rules and tell my riders that making Marquez's life harder simply means that they do not do a Petrucci to let him through.

Yes the sport is individual but it is also team and when only one individual within the team has the chance, than the second needs to ride for the team and others contracted to the manufacturer need to also follow suit.

Valencia will indeed be interesting as just as people are focusing on the Ducati map 8, anyone else notice that Honda guys also rode in formation?

Agree for most part, though I think you've oversimplified the risk and prospect of overtaking a 'teammate' that was taking unnecessarily defensive lines and crash pace (which he almost did at Malaysia) when clearly he 'didn’t have the pace.'

My friend Arrabi will tell you team orders don't exist at Honda anyway so we won't ever have to worry about this issue (except when it seemed to appear on occasion). I don't believe team orders are non-existent at Honda, but you can bet they'd never put up a coded message for public scrutiny like the infamous 'map 8'.

Honda/Yamaha/Suzuki are more conventional DNA (starting with the twin-spar chassis) despite being individually unique whereas Ducati (and perhaps KTM, Aprilia) is/are idiosyncratic "protoypes". I predict Lorenzo will be competitive rather quickly, certainly not as long to adapt as it took for Ducati.


If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
So Krop in his article talks about tin foil hats when mentioning mapping 8 meaning let Dovi by. Then someone inside Ducati according to the article Pov quoted confirmed that mapping 8 was indeed a reminder to let him by. Lorenzo states that he didn't see the reminder but knew what he had to do anyway.

Jum has totally lost it for some reason when discussing what are at this stage confirmed team orders. It's easy to say team orders haven't effected anything because Dovi may have got past Lorenzo but cast your minds back to Motegi when Petrucci ran wide to let Dovi through. If that move has to come a few corners later Dovi probably isn't close enough when Marquez makes his mistake to pull off that incredible move to take 1st. That 10 point swing means the championship is still alive. Ducati have cheapened Dovi's results IMO, Dovi didn't need the help of others on the Ducati and in all likelihood their help will have done nothing in the end net him the title but has IMO made Ducati look bad.

I could keep going there are 4 pages of what map 8 means. Posts are from 2017 and 18
 
I could keep going there are 4 pages of what map 8 means. Posts are from 2017 and 18
Those were the days, sometimes. We talked about life, and, supershinyo's (got the name wrong?)hedonist trip in Japan? Barry backed it in everywhere, Andyroo was wondering if he might end up a kangaroo,, jumkie wrote paragraphs, were put into great songs, sights and economics, geopolitics were all fair game. Sometimes we'd talk about gp racing.
 
Those were the days, sometimes. We talked about life, and, supershinyo's (got the name wrong?)hedonist trip in Japan? Barry backed it in everywhere, Andyroo was wondering if he might end up a kangaroo,, jumkie wrote paragraphs, were put into great songs, sights and economics, geopolitics were all fair game. Sometimes we'd talk about gp racing.

Arrabbiata wrote poems. Man it was great back then. There was a .... ton of toxic masculinity.
 
I'm this instance mdub, it did. Map8, was releasing DiGi to go for it. Gresini trolling Ducati factory.

Trolling? Is birdbird their crew chief? But I am leaning toward them saying that to save face. I'm not sure if trolling your bike supplier is a good idea. Don't poke the bear. If you are right then and this is a case of trolling then I love it! Honestly we will never know unless someone comes out and says DiGi ignored the message. I am not going to buy the story that it was a message to go for it.
 
Yeah a proper whack on the helmet. This can't go on! What comes next? A double tap? Or even worse he could be road raging all over the place and showing other riders on a live track the finger?

To be totally honest I was even amused by the romano fenati incident as it wasn't really dangerous if you look at it realistically. I found it ridiculous how everybody screamed out even blaming fenati tried to kill the other rider and he should be charged for attempted murder. What ........! It made him a legend to me and my friends and we sometimes playfully pull a romano fenati when we race each other on our pitbikes. But also we tap each other on our helmets and have a beer between stints.

As long as everyone knows what's going on, it should be good fun. If Aleix shows up........
 
I agree. Still a ways to go to match Sofoglu in a WSS race some years ago though.
Did Sofuoglu actually make contact? It's been so long, I don't recall. I only remember Kenan swinging at Hayes on the front straight of Portimao because he didn't think a wildcard rider should be racing him for position.

Are you referencing a different Kenan incident?
 
Is it possible Martin screwed up his rear tire or something else on his bike with that amateur start? Ride height wrong? Team got the setup wrong? Maybe it's really even more simple. After that blown start he just couldn't get going from 8th, lost all focus and got angry. On the cool down lap he sure seemed like he wanted to tell the whole world a story about his rear tire. Sure buddy, poor me, whatever. I don't know if I buy any of it. Excuses are excuses. I like the guy but seems he's got a few things to learn still. Looks to me like he lost the poker game.
 
Map 8, DiGia doesn't have a contract for next season. He's never won a MotoGP race. He's feeling good and knows he's got Pecco covered. Give me one GOOD reason he shouldn't go for it.
Because he was told not too. I am all for Digi ignoring the team order and going for it. I am happy about it. After thinking about what brother barbed said, it just can't be right. Map 8 means teammate (team8) is an undeniable fact for ducati. It was already proven that is what it means years ago. It means don't pass or let team8 by. Now for this to be a troll by Digi's team they would have had to know ahead of time it would be a two man battle with Pecco for the win. Something that on saturday didn't seem to be the way it would go. Map 8 was to let him know when there were 5 laps to go? Why 5? Again that would have to have been a predetermined strategy knowing it would be a two man race and to attack with 5 remaining. Add to that only Digi would have an idea how much tire he had left with 5 to go. He attacked with 5 to go because that was when Pecco began to struggle. Strategy wise 5 to go is to soon to attack unless there is a weakness from the other rider. So had they said map 8 meant to attack instead of it meant 5 to go would have been more believable. They would have had to know ahead of time there would only be one other rider and it would be a ducati rider and not a pack of riders. Ok the odds of it being anyone but a ducati rider doesn't make sense. But the fact is map 8 means something in the ducati stable and for them to say it meant 5 to go just doesn't add up. There is no way after the race in an interview anyone was going to say DiGi ignored team orders but I am 100% certain he did. And again I am glad he did.
 
Give me one GOOD reason he shouldn't go for it.

Because things can and do sometimes go wrong and he could have made a mistake and taken Pecco out? I think that's the only reason and IMO, a good one if I'm Ducati. As it turned out, Pecco almost took himself out. I'm with Mdub though, I'm glad he did it.
 
Is it possible Martin screwed up his rear tire or something else on his bike with that amateur start? Ride height wrong? Team got the setup wrong? Maybe it's really even more simple. After that blown start he just couldn't get going from 8th, lost all focus and got angry. On the cool down lap he sure seemed like he wanted to tell the whole world a story about his rear tire. Sure buddy, poor me, whatever. I don't know if I buy any of it. Excuses are excuses. I like the guy but seems he's got a few things to learn still. Looks to me like he lost the poker game.

Yeah, many possibilities, imo. It's possible Michelin made a bum tire, and Martin was unlucky. It's possible the teams are heat cycling tires, and Pramac's usual strategy didn't work as expected for a night race. It's possible that since the tires cannot be used/abused like a sprint, and teams run a different setup with different pressure, and since Qatar was a night race, Pramac went too high with tire pressure.

I'm also starting to suspect something I should have suspected last year, especially after Bayliss' performance at Valencia in 2006 (who was leaving MotoGP back then?)--that tire manufacturers cannot release a new tire to the grid, without testing it in competition. Practice and testing days are nice, but nothing simulates a race like the race itself, especially now that aero wash affects tire temps and pressures. I doubt Martin was testing something for next year, but the people around him could have been, and I wouldn't be surprised if Diggia was.

Prior to Indo, Diggia's career best finish was 8th place, which he achieved once in his rookie season, and twice during the 2023 season. At Indo he comes 4th out of nowhere, he follows that up with a podium at PI (same place Rins took an unexpected win in 2022). For the following two rounds he goes right back to his normal position in 9th, then he wins suddenly at Qatar.

I suspect teams are testing new tires during the season to gather data for Michelin. The riders are probably unaware. The team sets up the bike for the tires, and they learn as they go. If the rider is fast, he proclaims that he's found something. The new setup is working blah blah. But that's not reality, and it's why the paddock is mostly unmoved by Fabio's win. Of course the big bosses give him an atta-boy, and "I can't believe he doesn't have a ride for next year!", but it's all part of the smoke and mirrors, and they are trying to help Fabio by getting Dorna involved or helping Fabio find a contract outside of GP.
 
Yeah, many possibilities, imo. It's possible Michelin made a bum tire, and Martin was unlucky. It's possible the teams are heat cycling tires, and Pramac's usual strategy didn't work as expected for a night race. It's possible that since the tires cannot be used/abused like a sprint, and teams run a different setup with different pressure, and since Qatar was a night race, Pramac went too high with tire pressure.

I'm also starting to suspect something I should have suspected last year, especially after Bayliss' performance at Valencia in 2006 (who was leaving MotoGP back then?)--that tire manufacturers cannot release a new tire to the grid, without testing it in competition. Practice and testing days are nice, but nothing simulates a race like the race itself, especially now that aero wash affects tire temps and pressures. I doubt Martin was testing something for next year, but the people around him could have been, and I wouldn't be surprised if Diggia was.

Prior to Indo, Diggia's career best finish was 8th place, which he achieved once in his rookie season, and twice during the 2023 season. At Indo he comes 4th out of nowhere, he follows that up with a podium at PI (same place Rins took an unexpected win in 2022). For the following two rounds he goes right back to his normal position in 9th, then he wins suddenly at Qatar.

I suspect teams are testing new tires during the season to gather data for Michelin. The riders are probably unaware. The team sets up the bike for the tires, and they learn as they go. If the rider is fast, he proclaims that he's found something. The new setup is working blah blah. But that's not reality, and it's why the paddock is mostly unmoved by Fabio's win. Of course the big bosses give him an atta-boy, and "I can't believe he doesn't have a ride for next year!", but it's all part of the smoke and mirrors, and they are trying to help Fabio by getting Dorna involved or helping Fabio find a contract outside of GP.
Wow man, if any of that is credible and/or true, it gives a whole new slant on conspiracy theory!
 
Map 8 was first given to jorge lorenzo while on Ducati to telling not to go for the win. He also ignored the message. Why would they say map 8 when they could literally send 5 to go?
I dont know but that was what his engineer said and also absolutely nobody was pissed at him winning the race so i tend to believe it
 

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