Malaysian *RACE* thread

[Mick D]

What's to discuss? The fact that you and a few are trying to make this a talking point is chickenshit. Give the man his day without trying to throw some ........ into it.

I posted what I saw live - a stream-of-consciousness post, as is often done by members during the race, ....... (check the post time). As I said I have no idea what Jorge saw or didn't see, nor what his thought process was at the time (just as you don't). I haven't watched it again, nor do I intend to, I stand by what I saw at the time and Ben definitely rode off with a shake of the head which obviously revealed how HE felt at the time. I couldn't care less who talks about it nor what their interpretation of Jorge's motivation was, BUT don't be a chickenshit revisionist yourself and deny that it happened... Ben's reaction was there for all to see.

 

[chopperman]

I posted what I saw live - a stream-of-consciousness post, as is often done by members during the race, ....... (check the post time). As I said I have no idea what Jorge saw or didn't see, nor what his thought process was at the time (just as you don't). I haven't watched it again, nor do I intend to, I stand by what I saw at the time and Ben definitely rode off with a shake of the head which obviously revealed how HE felt at the time. I couldn't care less who talks about it nor what their interpretation of Jorge's motivation was, BUT don't be a chickenshit revisionist yourself and deny that it happened... Ben's reaction was there for all to see.

My 2 cents on the subject for what it's worth. i think it highly unlikely but not totally beyond reason that jorge would snub spies, after all we don't know what goes on behind the screens. Without doubt jorges head would have been all over the place in the seconds after clinching his life dream. Spies did shake his head it what looked at the time to be a disapproving way, this gesture would/could make fans draw the immediate conclusion he had been snubbed. Now we have hindsight which is of course a wonderful thing

 

[basspete]

Great race , but did get a bit of deja vu, Rossi wins and Spencer ..... up on the first lap. A bit of a habit that one Freddie.



Well done Jorge on the title, man of the year no question. A very deserving champion.



Bring on next year, it's gonna be a belter!





Pete

 

[Keshav]

I didn't see stoner go down, deliberately not watching the first 2 laps beacuse I thought they were dangerous for him (didn't work obviously). He would seem to have made a tactical error and tried to catch dovi and jorge quickly ; I always thought valentino was more likely to win than either based on practice times on race set-up and the aforementioned championship factor for jorge so he could have taken it slower.



Whilst stoner is obviously not fit to breathe the same oxygen as valentino or even be in his vicinity lest he breathe any of valentino's exhaled air, he does have at least one thing in common, in that he will mostly go for the win if he can. I suspect he wouldn't be in win it or bin it mode if his contract status was unclear, then again he may have been feeling pressure from dovi's form although he had just beaten both hrc riders in straight out fights for the win in the previous 2 races.



(EDIT I really think he deliberately put the bike down so valentino could win the race in which jorge won the championship to piss jorge off).

While I did not anticipate the crash - I had a bad feeling when it was mentioned that Stoner was going with the extra hard front tire, not apparently

the right choice for the Ducati and wanting to get to the front right from the start. I expect that Rog is at least partly right, in his reckoning

Stoner wanting to beat Dovi for the sake of next year's pecking order. Tho I have a hard time imagining that Stoner views him as a serious threat.

 

[Keshav]

Whats that got to do with the price of cheese?

I took you to mean Stoner crashed a lot in 2006 on the Honda.No? He did crash a lot that year,

but it was not a factory bike with factory support - and he was getting ...... tires besides.

People were calling him "Crashey Stoner" etc and he was seen as a joke. Same with Depuniet.

Both riders seem to improve dramatically "overnight" when they got on better bikes with Bridgestones.

 

[bluegreen]

Hello all.



First a little about me so you gauge what my opinion is worth (not a ton) and where I am coming from. I only started watching Motogp this season and have been lurking on this board for a bit but it's so polarized in regards to Rossi I was hesatent to jump in.



Lorenzo- Congratutions on the Title! He was dominant for the first chunk of the season, As far as the snubs after the race? He's what 23?I think I can forgive him for being a little out of sorts after winning his first World Championship. I'm really looking forward to watching him and Rossi duke it out wihh each other (wether it's for 3rd, 1st or last, very good racing) for the remaining races with only pride on the line now that the championship is settled.



Spies- When I watched the race for the first time, it did indeed look like he took the non-handshake as a snub, but after a little bit of thought I had another take on it. The main problem with knowing how Spies reacted is that you can't see his face, only his head shake. Now go grab your helmet from the closet and go stand in front of the mirror. Put the visor down and roll your eyes in disgust and shake your head. Now, put a big "I can only imagine how he feels right now" .... eating grin on your face and shake your head. Probably look the same from the outside don't they? I imagine Spies did have a reaction but I for one could not tell you for certain what it was.



Rossi- After watching these last two races and knowing his lifetime record I get the feeling I was cheated out of some entertaing stuff this season with his injurys. 11th to 1st was a lot of fun to watch.



Next year- Should be damn entertaining! A healthy Rossi on a Duke, Spies-Factory, this will be fun to watch, Lorenzo-wanting to pick up where he left off, Stoner-change could be good for him, Dani-also wanting to continue his work from this season. There are a lot of guys who are very capable of winning, again I'm a rookie watcher, but it should be an interesting fight for the #1.

 

[chopperman]

Hello all.



First a little about me so you gauge what my opinion is worth (not a ton) and where I am coming from. I only started watching Motogp this season and have been lurking on this board for a bit but it's so polarized in regards to Rossi I was hesatent to jump in.



Lorenzo- Congratutions on the Title! He was dominant for the first chunk of the season, As far as the snubs after the race? He's what 23?I think I can forgive him for being a little out of sorts after winning his first World Championship. I'm really looking forward to watching him and Rossi duke it out wihh each other (wether it's for 3rd, 1st or last, very good racing) for the remaining races with only pride on the line now that the championship is settled.



Spies- When I watched the race for the first time, it did indeed look like he took the non-handshake as a snub, but after a little bit of thought I had another take on it. The main problem with knowing how Spies reacted is that you can't see his face, only his head shake. Now go grab your helmet from the closet and go stand in front of the mirror. Put the visor down and roll your eyes in disgust and shake your head. Now, put a big "I can only imagine how he feels right now" .... eating grin on your face and shake your head. Probably look the same from the outside don't they? I imagine Spies did have a reaction but I for one could not tell you for certain what it was.



Rossi- After watching these last two races and knowing his lifetime record I get the feeling I was cheated out of some entertaing stuff this season with his injurys. 11th to 1st was a lot of fun to watch.



Next year- Should be damn entertaining! A healthy Rossi on a Duke, Spies-Factory, this will be fun to watch, Lorenzo-wanting to pick up where he left off, Stoner-change could be good for him, Dani-also wanting to continue his work from this season. There are a lot of guys who are very capable of winning, again I'm a rookie watcher, but it should be an interesting fight for the #1.

Hi and welcome. I know what you're saying in that we can't see facial expressions so can't tell the true mood. I agree of course but you have to agree that the spies head shake was very animated. These sportsmen tend to over annotate to get there point over to the cameras.

As for the forum being rossi polarized, well that depends on what day and time you visit

 

[Talpa]

My 2 cents on the subject for what it's worth. i think it highly unlikely but not totally beyond reason that jorge would snub spies, after all we don't know what goes on behind the screens. Without doubt jorges head would have been all over the place in the seconds after clinching his life dream. Spies did shake his head it what looked at the time to be a disapproving way, this gesture would/could make fans draw the immediate conclusion he had been snubbed. Now we have hindsight which is of course a wonderful thing

I must admit, the Spies thing is very hard to judge. I couldn't say that Jorge was being deliberately obtuse, Maybe Ben just needed to smack him on the shoulder, VR knew how to get his attention.........

The Parc femme stunt was a bit silly, trying to pull up into the no 1 spot is a little nasty, especially with the race winner right behind you, but hey the guy just won the world title-there's nothing wrong with celebrating.



Speaking of celebrating, this thread should be about how great that race was-probably the best we've had all season and for over a year now, not nit-picking riders personalities.



I don't know about that Yamaha engine being too much better Pov, Dovi still had little trouble on the main straight when he made his passes.



Sepang delivers another cracker, 2006 there was one of my all-time favorites.



Thanks Jum for proving my hypocrisy theory correct-yet again......replacement of the greatest troll ever as a means to describe another member whilst trolling the thread and arguing with everybody-once again priceless.......remember I like Nicky

I didn't mean to imply anything negative about him, really I didn't, please forgive me messiah.......please

http://www.powerslide.net/forum/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/.....gif

 

[inam22]

It will be interesting to see if Yamaha will ask Jorge to help Rossi to get 3rd place in championship now !!!!!!!! i think not.

 

[michaelm]

While I did not anticipate the crash - I had a bad feeling when it was mentioned that Stoner was going with the extra hard front tire, not apparently

the right choice for the Ducati and wanting to get to the front right from the start. I expect that Rog is at least partly right, in his reckoning

Stoner wanting to beat Dovi for the sake of next year's pecking order. Tho I have a hard time imagining that Stoner views him as a serious threat.

I have never had anything against dovi, and wonder with others whether he has finally been given better equipment than previously in the last couple of races at least. However his recent rating comes from running rossi, who is injured and caught him from well behind, close in a race where stoner crashed and jorge just needed a few points for the championship, and running stoner moderately close in a race where pedrosa was absent and rossi and jorge's status re injury and the championship were the same as in the sepang race. The race before he crashed himself chasing a podium in a race where his usually faster team-mate was well-beaten by stoner.



I think stoner's status will depend on his testing form and the suppo v puig thing, mostly the former since hrc really, really want to win the last 800cc title, which would be their only one. If the relative status of the riders is not determined already or by the start of the season , then if casey is crashy stoner early in the season this obviously could change things.



I personally think he will do very well if the bike is fast enough or close to fast enough; if not he will crash a lot trying to win anyway. One thing that may help is that he seems to have the same tyre preferences as rossi; neither have seemed consistently well suited by the current bridgestones, but I imagine there will be some pressure for tyres that suit rossi to be in the mix next year particularly if dorna are subsidising his ducati contract as is rumoured, and ducati were bridgestone's original team anyway.

 

[michaelm]

i did laugh at you tong in cheek comments but i think you hit the nail on the head. I think stoner crashed because he was desperate to finish ahead of Dovi. A show of strength to his new employers. Sadly he achieved the complete opposite.

Can't do smilies on the old computer I currently have to use at night but didn't think you needed them anyway

.

 

[geewhiz14]

Fierce, fierce ride from Vale. Couldn't help himself and just had to piss a bit on Jorge's day.

I was puzzled too when Jorge didn't seem to mind Ben, but then again, it looked like he was too busy absorbing the gravity of his triumph, so I wouldn't read too much into the 'snub'. Ben's a big boy and can brush that off easily.

He-s a great rider, now deservedly world champion, but I really cannot bring myself to like him.

Same. I respect his talent, though.

Congrats to JLo. Now more haterz are going to line up a la izquierda.

 

[Jumkie]

I posted what I saw live - a stream-of-consciousness post, as is often done by members during the race, ....... (check the post time). As I said I have no idea what Jorge saw or didn't see, nor what his thought process was at the time (just as you don't). I haven't watched it again, nor do I intend to, I stand by what I saw at the time and Ben definitely rode off with a shake of the head which obviously revealed how HE felt at the time. I couldn't care less who talks about it nor what their interpretation of Jorge's motivation was, BUT don't be a chickenshit revisionist yourself and deny that it happened... Ben's reaction was there for all to see.

Your "live-stream-of-consciousness" sucks ... (as do your posts when you sit there an try to .... an intelligent thought). Spies' head shake could have just as easily been a reflection, like, '...., i remember when I won it all too, wow'. But your stupid first reaction was to make some .... projection upon Lorenzo (didn't you see his head bow several times like if he was having a child?) Who is denying it happened you ....... ....., its your lame ... interpretation that I have issue with you ....... moron.

Hello all.



First a little about me...

Welcome to the forum bluegreen. Great way of putting the helmet expression thing. The prob, as you already stated, is the blind polarization, some peeps will look at anything, even the most trivial, and try to project that certain rivals are ..... Lorenzo just won the title and a few peeps couldn't help but try and project something negative to latch on to. As if to say, yeah he won, but he's still an ........ Just like the lame ....... trying to .... on Stoner, dude just won the last two races, and on this one made a mistake (partly because his .... bike is so unforgiving) and out come the haters.

 

[surendhar]

While I did not anticipate the crash - I had a bad feeling when it was mentioned that Stoner was going with the extra hard front tire, not apparently

the right choice for the Ducati and wanting to get to the front right from the start. I expect that Rog is at least partly right, in his reckoning

Stoner wanting to beat Dovi for the sake of next year's pecking order. Tho I have a hard time imagining that Stoner views him as a serious threat.

This is a funny quote from Rossi when asked about Tyre choice for Sepang race







Do you know which tire you will use?



"I have some doubts about the front, but I think the front works better and will last. Are there any riders making a different choice? Ah, Stoner... we, certainly, he is Stoner, so I am not surprised."



Link

 

[Tom]

Thanks for concise counter argument. You don't usually resort to ad hominem attacks. Anyhow... lets face it. On the bike these guys are brilliant.

But off the track they're essentially jocks. They start racing at 14 years old and stop going to school as soon as is legally allowed by the laws of

their country. During off season their focus is on training training and more training. During the season - they're constantly on the move from one

country to another and when they're not traveling - they're either resting up or training more. It would be a lot ask - to expect any of them to be

well versed in culture and politics and the arts. They're jocks.

Well the counter argument is pretty obvious. You don't really know anything about Jorge or any of the other riders personally. To claim that he or anyone else isn't cultured, or doesn't have a creative personality is a major assumption from our perspective, especially since things i have heard and read suggest you are wrong anyway.

 

[Pigeon]

lorenzo99 Jorge Lorenzo I had some messages asking me why I didn't pay attention to Spies when he wanted to congratulate me. I have to say that I didn't see... 3 minutes ago





...And feel he was there at that the moment of our celebration. I just told this to him. He is a good guy and we have a good relationship.

good to see he can reply to ppl WD Jorge

missed a bit Edit

 

[Keshav]

Well the counter argument is pretty obvious. You don't really know anything about Jorge or any of the other riders personally. To claim that he or anyone else isn't cultured, or doesn't have a creative personality is a major assumption from our perspective, especially since things i have heard and read suggest you are wrong anyway.

That my post is based solely on assumption is something you yourself have assumed. My opinion is based on observations made over

a period of years racing and running an endurance team - and having spent many hours on the road traveling from race to race and

having a good deal of perspective to draw on. It's also based on myriad observations by others in the sports world about jocks in general.

And it's also based just how lame his little promotions are. If it walks like a jock, and talks like a jock it probably is a jock. He's a great sportsman

but there's no evidence of his being particularly cultured.



As to what you may have read or heard - feel free to post examples.

 

[chopperman]

Tom, on 12 October 2010 - 06:34 AM, said:

Well the counter argument is pretty obvious. You don't really know anything about Jorge or any of the other riders personally. To claim that he or anyone else isn't cultured, or doesn't have a creative personality is a major assumption from our perspective, especially since things i have heard and read suggest you are wrong anyway.

So you see tom, you're not the only one who passes his opinions as facts, i actually found it quite hypocritical of you to call kesh out on this

 

[Tom]

That my post is based solely on assumption is something you yourself have assumed. My opinion is based on observations made over

a period of years racing and running an endurance team - and having spent many hours on the road traveling from race to race and

having a good deal of perspective to draw on. It's also based on myriad observations by others in the sports world about jocks in general.

And it's also based just how lame his little promotions are. If it walks like a jock, and talks like a jock it probably is a jock. He's a great sportsman

but there's no evidence of his being particularly cultured.



As to what you may have read or heard - feel free to post examples.

So basically you know nothing about Jorge Lorenzo and are painting all racers with the same brush. Lorenzo might not be especially cultured, he might not be very creative but the point is, you have no idea. If you want to at least try and learn something then you could read his autobiography or listen to the opinions of people who actually interact with him (for the record they tend to disagree with your judgement) but even those sources of information can only reproduce what he lets the public know, which will never be the whole story. From my point of view, i don't feel the need to absolutely know everything about Lorenzo as a person (or any other rider) but unlike you i wouldn't claim to, i am happy with the clues i get from reliable sources (none of which are you).

 

[Keshav]

So basically you know nothing about Jorge Lorenzo and are painting all racers with the same brush. Lorenzo might not be especially cultured, he might not be very creative but the point is, you have no idea. If you want to at least try and learn something then you could read his autobiography or listen to the opinions of people who actually interact with him (for the record they tend to disagree with your judgement) but even those sources of information can only reproduce what he lets the public know, which will never be the whole story. From my point of view, i don't feel the need to absolutely know everything about Lorenzo as a person (or any other rider) but unlike you i wouldn't claim to, i am happy with the clues i get from reliable sources (none of which are you).

Firstly - I never pretended it was anything other than an educated opinion.



Secondly - if you can't provide a link to all these folks who think that Lorenzo is secretly an Oxford Don - all

we have is your say-so based on mysterious sources.



If you'd paid attention to what was posted earlier - you'd see there's many factors that one can draw a conclusion from.



Racing since the early teen years - not leaving much time for anything other than a cursory education (entirely the norm for racers)



A high school education (at best)



Extremely demanding schedule for training and racing



A general atmosphere in the paddock that pretty much precludes topics of discussion about

the writings of Kant, Moliere, Oscar Wilde, Shaw and that sort of thing. This is based on

6 years of constantly being on the road during race season surrounded by other racers.



If you can't provide evidence to the contrary - I'd say your opinion is based on a general need - to not know

anything unflattering about Lorenzo. Are you perhaps our first official Lorenzo-bopper?