Jorge could and should still win the title

Jumkie said:

How do you define "deliberate"?

For further reference, see Assen 2015

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Or maybe Indy 2013?

MigsAngel said:

Or maybe Indy 2013?

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AntG said:

Or get this, he could still win the title the way Marquez, Stoner and Lorenzo himself have previously, by whupping everyone elses arse.

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Ant. Do you have the brain capacity of an ant. Can you do simple math. Have you watched MotoGP in the last 10 years. The factory bikes always podium. It doesn't matter if Lorenzo rode the fastest race of his life and finished 10 seconds in front of the second-place rider because that second and third place rider would be Rossi or Marquez. Points are not awarded by amount of time separating riders. There are a minimal of points earned between first and third place. There are not enough races left in the season to make up those points even if he was " kicking ...". Unless you think Lorenzo is superman and can ride so fast that time reverses itself and pushes Rossi backwards your "... kicking"scenario is assanine.
Unless Lorenzo has the stones to punt Rossi, what we are going to see is, drum roll please ........................................10 time, 10 time,10 time,10 time

Radha said:

Ant. Do you have the brain capacity of an ant. Can you do simple math. Have you watched MotoGP in the last 10 years. The factory bikes always podium. It doesn't matter if Lorenzo rode the fastest race of his life and finished 10 seconds in front of the second-place rider because that second and third place rider would be Rossi or Marquez. Points are not awarded by amount of time separating riders. There are a minimal of points earned between first and third place. There are not enough races left in the season to make up those points even if he was " kicking ...". Unless you think Lorenzo is superman and can ride so fast that time reverses itself and pushes Rossi backwards your "... kicking"scenario is assanine.
Unless Lorenzo has the stones to punt Rossi, what we are going to see is, drum roll please ........................................10 time, 10 time,10 time,10 time

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Keep talking that way and you may well come back in the next life as an ant...or at best a manatee.

Radha said:

I'm sure most of you think I am crazy but Jorge still could win this championship. The pressure is now on Rossi. He hasn't crashed yet this year. All riders crash at least one race per year. What Jorge needs to do is run Rossi off the track and disguise it as a race incident. Race direction does not exist for the top three riders. They will ignore it like they always do. We have seen Rossi and Marquez do this numerous times with no repercussions. Lets see if Jorge has the heart to do what it takes to win

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Of course Lorenzo can win.... "still" doesn't apply to him, but to Marquez.
Because Marquez could still win it, in spite of what everybody say.

Radha said:

Absoloutely. Race direction and fans have excused abhorrent behavior for years. Why is that? They obviously feel that it is acceptable behavior and if its not being punished,then it must be within the rules. Jorge should take full advantage of the rules ( or lack of them ) and take Rossi out.

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For Krishna's sake,
apart from any fair-play consideration, do you realize that there is no guarantee the "punter" wouldn't end up in the gravel as well? And could get injured? When it comes to blows, the outcome is never known.

Radha said:

Ant. Do you have the brain capacity of an ant. Can you do simple math. Have you watched MotoGP in the last 10 years. The factory bikes always podium.

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Wait... What bikes were on the podium this race again?

Jorge is not going to run Vale off the track - not his style at all.

And he doesn't need to.... Two or three wins with Vale finishing in 3rd or lower behind Marquez, and would be enough to close the gap, and finishing ahead of him in the other races would seal it.

There's a long way to go yet before anyone can feel the title firmly in their grasp.

Dr No said:

Eh?
Agostini was reviled in the paddock during the 80s and early 90s as a money-grabbing turd of a Yamaha manager. Lining his pockets at the expense of his riders.

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I met him at Brands in 2001, they were showing off a couple of the new Benelli's. I was not impressed, he was kowtowed to by everyone.
Here's an article from the brit rag MCN (also known as More Crap News)First full test on Benelli superbike | MCN

MigsAngel said:

Welcome Radha....

Being a rider myself, I can't ever advocate deliberately taking a rider.....even your biggest rival for the title......if Rossi were to get injured by this take out then A) Yamaha wouldnt be happy, b) JLo might genuinely need to fear for his life from Rossi Fanatics and C) I would taint JLo's title and career and legacy forever.......it isnt not JLo's current style anyway to be that kind of rider...

i will assume you ride, and that you may have had some hairy scary moments going around bends or at speed where you get it wrong......and suddenly you get a feeling that starts at your feet and rushes up your body to tell you take it easy.....assuming you are not rolling down the road now....if you ride you probably the feeling I mean.....well you probably also feel it when you see a racer on tv or at the track when they get it wrong and either come out of the seat, look like they are going to crash or do actually crash either by your own or someones else fault....My point is that if you've had that feeling then you would never advocate taking another rider out on purpose.....

Do you ride a motorbike ?

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You already know the answer.

Radha said:

Ant. Do you have the brain capacity of an ant. Can you do simple math. Have you watched MotoGP in the last 10 years. The factory bikes always podium. It doesn't matter if Lorenzo rode the fastest race of his life and finished 10 seconds in front of the second-place rider because that second and third place rider would be Rossi or Marquez. Points are not awarded by amount of time separating riders. There are a minimal of points earned between first and third place. There are not enough races left in the season to make up those points even if he was " kicking ...". Unless you think Lorenzo is superman and can ride so fast that time reverses itself and pushes Rossi backwards your "... kicking"scenario is assanine.
Unless Lorenzo has the stones to punt Rossi, what we are going to see is, drum roll please ........................................10 time, 10 time,10 time,10 time

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I mean the season as a whole. In the 8 races Jorge hasn't won, he's finished on the podium just twice, a pretty pathetic return for a factory bike, whereas his teammate has finished off the podium just once all season.

AntG said:

I mean the season as a whole. In the 8 races Jorge hasn't won, he's finished on the podium just twice, a pretty pathetic return for a factory bike, whereas his teammate has finished off the podium just once all season.

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That is a good observation which if you scrutinize beyond the surface you should find that this was a function of this year's unique erratic tire performance for 2 of the top 3 riders. Apart from the visor malfunction and his own fault by crashing out at Misano, Lorenzo's results have been erratic, he has won when the tires suited him and off the podium when the tires did not (similar to Marquez I may add), MEANWHILE, when the tires have suited VR he has contended for wins and the other times he has arrived on the podium, that is, his tires are good consistently. I have made this contention before this year, and that is that the tires were intended to suit Rossi systematically, the unintended consequence was that Lorenzo would be suited in some case and detrimentally effected in others. Turns out, this is exactly the picture when you look at the overall effect on the season. Coincidence?

Valentino was no where near wining this many races or leading the points the last two seasons, does it not seem a bit odd that this year there was a dramatic sea-chance!? What a difference a tweak makes when the odds are already so miniscule as is a 1:3 chance aboard a contending machine. But there is more...

Before you go dismissing this theory as mere conspiracy, noticing that my buddy Migs has liked your post, and I'd imagine my friend Kropo would as well, consider the following: Valentino Rossi is on record saying that when he took the track at Valencia in 2006, he noticed the tires he was issued were not of the same quality that he had been used to which he blamed for his crash and ultimately "losing" the championship that year. He made it clear that this was an odd anomaly, and suggested it was a CONSPIRACY! Rich, from a guy who had enjoyed exclusive tires for most of his titles, and of course he would be in the best position to make such a claim. His words slipped and they betrayed him. But there seems to be a group of people who regardless of the clues refuse to believe the reality of the world around them. Even now revising history that it was always Yamaha's intent to rehire VR, with no help from Dorna. But make no mistake, the series is managed by designs. Dorna is not an island in this regard, as much as some might naively think so.

Jumkie said:

Valentino Rossi is on record saying that when he took the track at Valencia in 2006, he noticed the tires he was issued were not of the same quality that he had been used to which he blamed for his crash and ultimately "losing" the championship that year. He made it clear that this was an odd anomaly, and suggested it was a CONSPIRACY! .

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I have to admit i haven't read that anywhere nor can i find it anywhere...so please could you find me that article showing the quote the tyre quality...?

this is the only thing i can find....and he doesnt say the problem was tyre quality...
http://www.crash.net/motogp/feature/197910/1/rossi-recalls-strange-2006-motogp-title-defeat.html

And while you are at it....i am still looking and waiting to see an article showing that Rossi's salary is covered partly by Dorna....if you dont mind helping find that article as well...i'd greatly appreciate it...

thanks...

Yeah I'm well aware there's politics at play, there has been for decades. But I don't understand why it's such a scandal that Rossi is getting help here and there. Rossi whether you like him or not(I personally don't by the way) is the biggest name in motorcycle racing, he alone draws thousands of spectators, viewers and sponsors so of course Dorna are going to keep him up challenging for the honours in every way they can.

This is professional sport, grand prix racing on both 2 and 4 wheels is littered with scandal throughout history, accusations of cheating, favouritism, dirty racing and many other forms of unscrupulous behaviour. You even get this at club racing events and always have done it's just the nature of the sport, every champion has manged to wangle some sort of advantage at some point in there careers, some are just better at doing it than others.

MigsAngel said:

I have to admit i haven't read that anywhere nor can i find it anywhere...so please could you find me that article showing the quote the tyre quality...?

this is the only thing i can find....and he doesnt say the problem was tyre quality...
http://www.crash.net/motogp/feature/197910/1/rossi-recalls-strange-2006-motogp-title-defeat.html

And while you are at it....i am still looking and waiting to see an article showing that Rossi's salary is covered partly by Dorna....if you dont mind helping find that article as well...i'd greatly appreciate it...



thanks...

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Hermano, have you watched the second installment of the Rossi biography entitled Fastest? In that movie you will find Rossi allude to the "conspiracy". Im surprised you've never heard of it.

I'm laughing because even in the link you provided Rossi alludes to something very strange, like say a conspiracy, for that event, but the words don't make you pause? What good would it do if he came right out and said it if you would then just dismiss it?

"But on Sunday, from the morning, something broken - something was wrong, because I was very slow. Is strange. Something strange happened I think." Rossi, speaking of the Valencia 06 race

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Regarding the smoking gun memo where Carmelo unequivocally admits to coercing and horse trading for the re-ascension of Valentino to a 1:3 podium/title contention.... hold on, let me find it on Google.

Other documents you may have trouble finding on Google: Official government memo from that administration admiting the first Iraq war had nothing to do with 911 and or oil interests, offical government memo from that administration admitting 'enhanced interrogation' is torture, and Sep Blather admitting he had knowledge of bribes.

Jumkie said:

Hermano, have you watched the second installment of the Rossi biography entitled Fastest? In that movie you will find Rossi allude to the "conspiracy". Im surprised you've never heard of it.

I'm laughing because even in the link you provided Rossi alludes to something very strange, like say a conspiracy, for that event, but the words don't make you pause? What good would it do if he came right out and said it if you would then just dismiss it?

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Keep in mind Rossi is very superstitious so perhaps he was referring to something completely differently....

I do have Faster...so i shall re-watch it and see what he says, but surely you that clear of statement on tyres must be in print somewhere.....

Jumkie said:

Regarding the smoking gun memo where Carmelo unequivocally admits to coercing and horse trading for the re-ascension of Valentino to a 1:3 podium/title contention.... hold on, let me find it on Google.

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.....i can wait...

MigsAngel said:

I do have Faster...so i shall re-watch it and see what he says, but surely you that clear of statement on tyres must be in print somewhere.....

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Faster just covered VRs life up to 2003, you'll want to watch Fastest.

Its times like these I wish we had Geonerd here. He could find that clip then put it into a continuous loop for all of us to enjoy.

Jumkie said:

Faster just covered VRs life up to 2003, you'll want to watch Fastest.

Its times like these I wish we had Geonerd here. He could find that clip then put it into a continuous loop for all of us to enjoy.

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Fastest was .....

Was a shame though Hopkins never was able to do something significant.

Jumkie said:

Hermano, have you watched the second installment of the Rossi biography entitled Fastest? In that movie you will find Rossi allude to the "conspiracy". Im surprised you've never heard of it.

I'm laughing because even in the link you provided Rossi alludes to something very strange, like say a conspiracy, for that event, but the words don't make you pause? What good would it do if he came right out and said it if you would then just dismiss it?



Regarding the smoking gun memo where Carmelo unequivocally admits to coercing and horse trading for the re-ascension of Valentino to a 1:3 podium/title contention.... hold on, let me find it on Google.




Other documents you may have trouble finding on Google: Official government memo from that administration admiting the first Iraq war had nothing to do with 911 and or oil interests, offical government memo from that administration admitting 'enhanced interrogation' is torture, and Sep Blather admitting he had knowledge of bribes.

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Even were such a memo unearthed - it would not confirm any conspiracy to make special tires for Rossi. To say that one unproven conspiracy confirms another speculative conspiracy is both a false dichotomy and a bandwagon fallacy. It's like if enough people chose to believe the meme that if an infinite number of monkeys (Mexican or otherwise) sat at an infinite number of typewriters - they would eventually produce a perfect replication of Romeo and Juliet - that said meme would transform into a plausible concept. This speculation without evidence is the kind of thinking that has 45% of Republicans believing (because enough people repeat it) that Obama is a secret Muslim born in Kenya.

Just maybe.... Rossi rode more consistently and had better luck this year.

No no.... forget I said that. That's too far out to be plausible.

Jumkie said:

Faster just covered VRs life up to 2003, you'll want to watch Fastest.

Its times like these I wish we had Geonerd here. He could find that clip then put it into a continuous loop for all of us to enjoy.

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Right I re-watched the part you are referring and found the actual text from the film online....

Here is Rossi actually said....

'I was very, very fast and I did the pole position, but at the same time,
I had an impressive race pace with the race tires.

Very fast, the bike was okay. Sunday, nothing worked. I didn't have the same grip from the tires.

And when I start for the race, the bike was impossible to ride.

For me, something strange happened with the tire. The tires were not the same of Saturday, I think, but you never know.'

Right....He doesn't say that the quality of tyre was not the same just that it didn't feel the same....maybe it was a quality of tyre issue, or something changed on the track conditions or the bike itself....either way, he doesn't say it is a conspiracy that change his tyres....

Unless you are saying Nicky's family sneaked into the Yamaha garage overnight swapped the good tyres for bad ones...?
Or are you saying that Dorna (whom you claim has conspired for Rossi to win over and over again) swapped tyres in an effort to ensure Nicky won the title in 2006?

I just think Rossi was nervous and lost the title even before he got on the bike for Sunday warm-up....he overthought it and every little thing that right on Saturday felt wrong on Sunday....no conspiracy, Rossi lost his own mind game that day....