Marc Marquez reportedly “going to win appeal”, will “benefit from clumsiness” of rule

Gaz said:

Gonna go king conspiracy theory.

Look at the article you linked, and particularly the comments of Viegas. To me, it almost reads threatening and I strongly suspect that there will be repercussions for Marquez and I suspect Honda for appealing and highlighting the incompetence of the steward findings and penalty wordings imposed.

I also suspect that every other manufacturer is supportive of the appeal (well, excepting Olivera's team) as the penalty as applied was not clear and as such, having it defined is only beneficial if/when others are subject to penalty.

Viegas I suspect is playing with himself somewhat as he states that the sanction was unclear and that the appeal was well done, well written but them immediately states that Marquez should accept the penalty regardless of the unclear sanction. He is acquainting or seems to be falling into teh social media line that it is Marquez appealing (ie. he should just accept the penalty) and not Honda (appeal well written) and at the same time there is insinuation that riders must not question decisions..................

Sounds kind of dictatorship and 'do not rock our boat' from one of the bosses who's name is not Ezpeleta

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That ain't conspiracy theory, that's a well reasoned argument based on the facts. If governing bodies can change rulings at will, outside the wording of the regulations, and punish those who question them, that is a dictatorship.

Gaz said:

Gonna go king conspiracy theory.

Look at the article you linked, and particularly the comments of Viegas. To me, it almost reads threatening and I strongly suspect that there will be repercussions for Marquez and I suspect Honda for appealing and highlighting the incompetence of the steward findings and penalty wordings imposed.

I also suspect that every other manufacturer is supportive of the appeal (well, excepting Olivera's team) as the penalty as applied was not clear and as such, having it defined is only beneficial if/when others are subject to penalty.

Viegas I suspect is playing with himself somewhat as he states that the sanction was unclear and that the appeal was well done, well written but them immediately states that Marquez should accept the penalty regardless of the unclear sanction. He is acquainting or seems to be falling into teh social media line that it is Marquez appealing (ie. he should just accept the penalty) and not Honda (appeal well written) and at the same time there is insinuation that riders must not question decisions..................

Sounds kind of dictatorship and 'do not rock our boat' from one of the bosses who's name is not Ezpeleta

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Conspiracy theory?

Iannone appealed his suspension for taking a banned substance. The presiding arbitration court had people on the board of the testing agency. The arbitration court not only upheld the suspension, despite the obvious conflict of interest, they extended the penalty, effectively ending Iannone's career. The ruling was designed to have a chilling affect on appeals, a tactic employed most often when the governing authorities have flimsy evidence and no moral right-of-way.

This Marquez penalty is just one of many ordinary conspiracies, coordinated by people who never saw the need for common law, negative human rights or following legal precedent.

The FIM is encouraging riders to show up injured to serve their penalties and minimize point loss. The FIM president is making veiled public threats, while burning through political capital and public goodwill to enforce a modest double-long-lap penalty on a popular rider who is basically already eliminated from championship contention by way of self-inflicted injury.

If I were looking for someone to waste my resources and maximize my losses, I would put Viegas in charge.

mylexicon said:

If I were looking for someone to waste my resources and maximize my losses, I would put Viegas in charge.

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He's a prime HOA president candidate!

I think that M Marquez has a full right to appeal the revised penalty and we probably wouldn't be debating it if it was someone else.

What we could debate is the inconsistency in handing out penalties

We have.

I have yet to see any of the Marc haters explain to me how Luca Marini in Portimao, and Jorge Martin in COTA, were 'racing incidents' yet Marcs crash in Portimao was 'Reckless', apart from the fact they hate MM.

Mir got a penalty for clouting Fabio in the same race, taking only himself out.

#22 said:

We have.

I have yet to see any of the Marc haters explain to me how Luca Marini in Portimao, and Jorge Martin in COTA, were 'racing incidents' yet Marcs crash in Portimao was 'Reckless', apart from the fact they hate MM.

Mir got a penalty for clouting Fabio in the same race, taking only himself out.

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Though I do not hate MM I'll give this a try. Both Martin and Marini lost their front ends but neither of them were doing anything crazy or out of line, IMO. Both had inside lines and both lost the front. Though it was unfortunate AM and EB got caught up in it, low-sides happen in almost every race and as such, they were labeled racing incidents. They didn't punt anyone out of the way to get their respective lines. Marc on the other hand, came into that turn wildly out of control with zero possibility of getting his bike stopped. He careened off Martin and planted his front wheel into Olivera's hip / lower back. It was beyond being aggressive and did cross into recklessness. Marc admitted he made the mistake and accepted his penalty. As for the MM haters, Marc has given them enough prior incidents they can point to as evidence of a pattern.

And whilst on the the subject, why didn't Nakagami get a penalty?

PRS717 said:

Though I do not hate MM I'll give this a try. Both Martin and Marini lost their front ends but neither of them were doing anything crazy or out of line, IMO. Both had inside lines and both lost the front. Though it was unfortunate AM and EB got caught up in it, low-sides happen in almost every race and as such, they were labeled racing incidents. They didn't punt anyone out of the way to get their respective lines. Marc on the other hand, came into that turn wildly out of control with zero possibility of getting his bike stopped. He careened off Martin and planted his front wheel into Olivera's hip / lower back. It was beyond being aggressive and did cross into recklessness. Marc admitted he made the mistake and accepted his penalty. As for the MM haters, Marc has given them enough prior incidents they can point to as evidence of a pattern.

And whilst on the the subject, why didn't Nakagami get a penalty?

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None among MM fans on here thought it was a smart move. I also thought he was too careless of other riders early in his career but hasn't been so much for most of his latter years. Making up the rules as they go including retrospectivity is what people are mainly objecting to.

I do think the current aero and ride height devices are making it difficult for most riders to judge when a bike is on the edge of letting go, and adding the sprint race with another start and first lap fper weekend is an own goal by Dorna in terms of number of crashes/general safety.

Well well, Marquez will not get a double lap penalty after all, go figure.

I personally think his best days on a Honda are behind him to be honest, we shall see !

Marc Marquez’s penalty ‘annulled’ by MotoGP Court of Appeal

Common sense prevailed.

#22 said:

Marc Marquez’s penalty ‘annulled’ by MotoGP Court of Appeal

Common sense prevailed.

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Not sure it is common sense or a logical decision but what it does do is totally and completely support Marquez and Honda's whole argument that they sought confirmation that the penalty applied to Argentina while during the original hearing. It vindicates everything Marquez and Honda stated that was said, what they accepted and agreed to.

It also now totally exposes that dude (The President dud we discussed the other week) who pushed the revisit and rewrite of the penalty and even more, exposes the pure social media driven decision for exactly what it was.

Seriously from this Marquez and Honda should walk away smiling at the vindications this has offered but now, serious questions also should be asked (but will not) regards the pressure exerted to change the penalty and who drove that. We need to accept and understand that pressure appears to have been applied from someone or a group with power to those with lesser power to make changes for the original group's own self serving reasons.

From all this, DORNA or whomever was behind the change will come out and take the line that has already been started when the presidento dude or whatever said Marquez should accept the penalty if he cared for the sport. That is all about victim blaming and shifting blame as DORNA will say that they must abide by the ruling andr eally, their decision should never have been challenged. They will continue to hide behind the curtain

Jorge Viegas of the FIM admits to requesting the penalty be altered:

“The Stewards Panel wrote an unclear sanction, so I asked them to make it clearer, and Team Honda consequently appealed, so much so that I personally spoke to [team manager Alberto] Puig.

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He doesn't say so, but it is highly likely driven by the Social Media backlash in the aftermath of the penalty. As you say, this is nothing more than intimidation tactics and it says a lot about the incompetence of the FIM that the appeals board didn't even hear the appeal! So ridiculous was the affair that they essentially said 'Look, the rider in question has missed 4 races because of the accident, are we really still discussing if he needs a long lap penalty?!"

Also, with regards to his statement above. The stewards did not write an unclear sanction. Quite the opposite infact, the saction was VERY clear, to the point that when Marc Marquez himself repeatedly asked if the penalty was to be served in Argentina, he was repeatedly told 'Yes' before he signed the sanction notice.

FIM got caught with their pants down and they didn't it. As with any governing body, they should know the ....... rulebook that they are paid to enforce.

Seems highly likely Marquez may have a low threshold for the next penalty to be applied however.
We shall see.

I agree that the penalty shouldn't of been changed after the original ruling.

In regards to penalties in general we need to get as close as possible to metrics on them to make them consistent, however that is not easy at all, there are so many factors to consider, you could say that each collision is unique.

warthog1 said:

Seems highly likely Marquez may have a low threshold for the next penalty to be applied however.
We shall see.

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Agreed.

He will get a 2 race ban for farting in the vicinity of his garage - it will be sold as a safety concern driven by OSH requirements to maintain a safe workplace, free of noxious or offensive smells