championships aside, is jorge better than rossi?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nuts @ Jun 22 2009, 02:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You don't think Stoner can beat either of them...... ???
Big call.
Lorenzo will have flashes of brilliance, but I will be willing to bet you Lorenzo won't be there at the end, and it will come down to Rossi and Stoner again.
I think Stoner and the Ducati had the ability to match Rossi and Lorenzo in Spain, and it could have easily been a three way fight. I think Stoner will match the Yamaha's on most circuits, and Stoner has the ability to beat them.

PS... I still think Rossi will win the title in 09.


No I don't and I'm not saying that as a ROSSI fan, I've been watching ROSSI race for a very long time (his 125 days in fact) and I haven't seen anyone with that kind of drive, I've seen Biaggi and gibbers have that kind of battle on the track before, but the looks on their faces afterwards has been "how much more must I do to beat this guy" Lorenzo's face was saying bring it on!

Casey might be lucky enough to get away up front, but I don't really think he stands a chance after watching that race!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bonnielass @ Jun 22 2009, 04:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>No I don't and I'm not saying that as a ROSSI fan, I've been watching ROSSI race for a very long time (his 125 days in fact) and I haven't seen anyone with that kind of drive, I've seen Biaggi and gibbers have that kind of battle on the track before, but the looks on their faces afterwards has been "how much more must I do to beat this guy" Lorenzo's face was saying bring it on!

Casey might be lucky enough to get away up front, but I don't really think he stands a chance after watching that race!
YOu compare biaggi and Gibbers as you put it? Are you serious? Stoner would easily have beaten those dudes. He has beaten Rossi before and will do it again. I can't understand as to why people can't just give a really good rider credit when it is due. Sure everyone is supposed to just bow for Valentino but if anyone talks good about another rider watch out.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bonnielass @ Jun 22 2009, 02:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Lorenzo isn't better then ROSSI, but he's gonna be!

When ROSSI retires Lorenzo will be the next world champion.

I don't think ROSSI will let Lorenzo beat him he'll just keep raising the bar.

I don't think anyone else out there can beat either of them, everyone else is racing for third place.
WTF. I smell Rossi bopper perfume on this lass. Stoner is better than Jorge anyday.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Jun 22 2009, 12:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>YOu compare biaggi and Gibbers as you put it? Are you serious? Stoner would easily have beaten those dudes. He has beaten Rossi before and will do it again. I can't understand as to why people can't just give a really good rider credit when it is due. Sure everyone is supposed to just bow for Valentino but if anyone talks good about another rider watch out.

I am not sure about it, and I am not saying who is or not better from them three, we will never be able to compare them head to head as we are able to with Rossi.

Max Biaggi has four 250cc Championships. Managed to have great fights with Rossi head to head, when he was on a less competitive Yamaha and Rossi on a great Honda (2000, 2001 & 2002) and beat Rossi in some races. He has the best Wheelly I have ever seen, pure luck no to have fallen down of course.

Gibernau has two runners up spots on a Satellite Team, Telefonica Movistar Honda (2003 & 2004). Task that has not been achieved by most riders on any Satellite bike.

Stoner managed to beat Rossi in 2007 when he had a projectile bike, Ducati got the 800cc right on from first go (Qatar 2007). And a bloody unbelievable acceleration on straight that simply pulled away from other Factory bikes. Of course Stoner had to ride it, so I am not taking any of this away from him.

So in order to have an idea and try to make any possible comparison, the question really would be if Stoner, on a lesser competitive or Satellite bike, could achieve what Biaggi and Gibernau did? The opposite is almost impossible now a day, because of Biaggi’s and Gibernau’s paths in life, but would be interesting though!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Jun 22 2009, 06:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>WTF. I smell Rossi bopper perfume on this lass. Stoner is better than Jorge anyday.
im not so sure. i think lorenzo is a lot stronger mentally than stoner and just as fast. Time will tell who achieves more but this last race showed us how hard lorenzo can push. how hard he can race and not be mentally beaten like stoner has showed he gets sometimes. After stoner got beat in a battle at laguna he was mentally beaten for several races there after, lorenzo looked determined, not beaten imo.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ganz @ Jun 22 2009, 01:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>This is funny, because Rossi himself stated that his feeling with the bike was the best this year...
And I didn't notice Lorenzo taking tighter lines, I think it's all in your head...


i know that rossi had a good feeling.. im just saying jorge seemed to be going around on rail's, i didnt notice jorge's bike loosing traction as much as rossi maybe its the way the electronics are set who knows... i dont think its in my head

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bonnielass @ Jun 22 2009, 08:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>but the looks on their faces afterwards has been "how much more must I do to beat this guy" Lorenzo's face was saying bring it on!

I've seen that look on Rossi's face for almost a complete season as well 07'


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jun 22 2009, 11:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>im not so sure. i think lorenzo is a lot stronger mentally than stoner and just as fast. Time will tell who achieves more but this last race showed us how hard lorenzo can push. how hard he can race and not be mentally beaten like stoner has showed he gets sometimes. After stoner got beat in a battle at laguna he was mentally beaten for several races there after, lorenzo looked determined, not beaten imo.

Go back and watch the Catalunya race in 07.

You guys



Stoner is the most prolific rider of the 800cc era to date ( and he is still winning ) ........... how the hell can you rate Lorenzo anywhere near stoner


Lorenzo and Pedrosa are like competitors

Rossi is the closest to Stoner down by just 1 race win on the 800cc machines.

So yes it is.......... , and until Lorenzo gets a hell of a lot better ( we're talking he needs to put together a championship yet ), ........ Rossi v's Stoner


The Stoner hate ..... for whatever reason ...... sure has made a few folks come up with some wacky dreams

Lorenzo as good as Rossi ...... pfft! ........ he has only just won a few races. He may never catch Stoner well it will take a year of no wins by Stoner at least


Truly Rog. and Co. you guys need some fresh air! ...... get out of that smog

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ngads @ Jun 22 2009, 03:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Agreed...we cant count out Stoner...unless he loses form for the rest of the season. We seem to be forgetting that Stoner did win the race b4 catalunya. However, being a Rossi fan, im more intimidated by Lorenzo because not only is he on the same team as Rossi, but he has experience as a world champion not once, but twice. Even if it is only in 250s he has shown that he can be fast on many different bikes, unlike stoner w/ just the ducati.
If you are keen on comparing the un-alike both pedrosa and stoner beat lorenzo when they were all on 250s , not that you are unfair on stoner in general.

Lorenzo is obviously extremely good, but as others have argued he is on a bike developed by valentino and jb whom many would opine are quite reasonable at development and set up; whether he can do this himself in future will be a significant determinant of his eventual stature, as it will be for stoner.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Jun 22 2009, 11:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I've seen that look on Rossi's face for almost a complete season as well 07'




Go back and watch the Catalunya race in 07.
stoner won that race so whats your point ? and to compare catalyuna 07 to laguna 08 and catalyuna 09 is laughable.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Jun 23 2009, 07:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>

You guys



Stoner is the most prolific rider of the 800cc era to date ( and he is still winning ) ........... how the hell can you rate Lorenzo anywhere near stoner



Truly Rog. and Co. you guys need some fresh air! ...... get out of that smog
surely rossi is the most prolific 800 rider to date ,but only just. stoner and rossi both have 1, 800cc championship but rossi has been slightly better this season come on barry, you know you need to keep out of the sun

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jun 23 2009, 05:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>surely rossi is the most prolific 800 rider to date ,but only just. stoner and rossi both have 1, 800cc championship but rossi has been slightly better this season come on barry, you know you need to keep out of the sun

With ones head out of the sand .... and in full light of the sun ...... this is the figures:

800cc era:

Stoner: 18 wins

Rossi : 15 wins





Pedrosa: 4 Wins

Lorenzo: 4 Wins But Lorenzo is a year down.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Jun 23 2009, 10:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>With ones head out of the sand .... and in full light of the sun ...... this is the figures:

800cc era:

Stoner: 18 wins

Rossi : 15 wins





Pedrosa: 4 Wins

Lorenzo: 4 Wins But Lorenzo is a year down.
but you have not taken the other finishing stats into account.
stoner 1x 800 wc
rossi 1 x 800 wc
but due to the other finishing possitions this year the wc stands at
1st rossi
2nd lorenzo
3rd stoner
so i stand by my comment in refuting your "Stoner is the most prolific rider of the 800cc era to date" comment and stand by my rossi is slightly more prolific 800 rider. but all this could change come the end of assen

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jun 23 2009, 10:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>but you have not taken the other finishing stats into account.
stoner 1x 800 wc
rossi 1 x 800 wc
but due to the other finishing possitions this year the wc stands at
1st rossi
2nd lorenzo
3rd stoner
so i stand by my comment in refuting your "Stoner is the most prolific rider of the 800cc era to date" comment and stand by my rossi is slightly more prolific 800 rider. but all this could change come the end of assen
Sorrr Rog, and I regret this, I'll have to agree with Barry on this one - if someone was to come up to you and say, whos won the most races so therefore is more succesful in the 800s? Its stoner - rossi isnt the more succesful just because he's winning by a 2nd Place.

Sure, it could make him the rider thats been at the top most, but Prolific is usually based not on who was at the top of the table by the 7th race of the season, but by who had the most race wins, and looking back at it, it is stoner. This will change come donnington though, and overall Rossi is a much more prolific racer - no arguments.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jun 23 2009, 07:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>but you have not taken the other finishing stats into account.
stoner 1x 800 wc
rossi 1 x 800 wc
but due to the other finishing possitions this year the wc stands at
1st rossi
2nd lorenzo
3rd stoner
so i stand by my comment in refuting your "Stoner is the most prolific rider of the 800cc era to date" comment and stand by my rossi is slightly more prolific 800 rider. but all this could change come the end of assen


Could you do my tax return Rog.!?? ...... I like your accounting methods

on second thoughts no I think I would rather just give them my money, they would likely fine me for your messed up data

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rickyduck @ Jun 23 2009, 10:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Sorrr Rog, and I regret this, I'll have to agree with Barry on this one - if someone was to come up to you and say, whos won the most races so therefore is more succesful in the 800s? Its stoner - rossi isnt the more succesful just because he's winning by a 2nd Place.

Sure, it could make him the rider thats been at the top most, but Prolific is usually based not on who was at the top of the table by the 7th race of the season, but by who had the most race wins, and looking back at it, it is stoner. This will change come donnington though, and overall Rossi is a much more prolific racer - no arguments.
well i think its to early for a "whos the most prolific" at this stage. lets see who wins this year's wc. stoner's extra race wins were from last year . last year being the first 800 season where we all know the ducati had quite a power advantage. so to call stoner the most prolific 800 rider now is no more than fanboyizum

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jun 23 2009, 10:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>well i think its to early for a "whos the most prolific" at this stage. lets see who wins this year's wc. stoner's extra race wins were from last year . last year being the first 800 season where we all know the ducati had quite a power advantage. so to call stoner the most prolific 800 rider now is no more than fanboyizum
For sure, but I'm just technically speaking - also, on a communication level he's more prolific - everyone talks about his moodiness, his strops, his attitude, and most of all his championship win - all controversial stuff.

And I believe that as well as in the wins department, Stoner is more prolific with the chics too

Gf's:

Stoner = 1

Rossi = uccio

Lorenzo = a chuppa chup

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Jun 23 2009, 10:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>And I believe that as well as in the wins department, Stoner is more prolific with the chics too

Gf's:

Stoner = 1

Rossi = uccio

Lorenzo = a chuppa chup
Stoner = 1

Rossi = Could be 100.
He's not committed Same with lorenzo

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Jun 23 2009, 12:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>And I believe that as well as in the wins department, Stoner is more prolific with the chics too

Gf's:

Stoner = 1

Rossi = uccio

Lorenzo = a chuppa chup

You're such a tool, Barry...