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Can Ducati get two wins in 2016??

Being fair though 22, the converse also rings true.

If the data clearly supported their rider, then they would have released it in order to provide support for that same rider.

IMO only but the data likely cannot prove the claim the VR kicked the bike as it has no camera at the level ............... although it would be interesting if it captured brake pressure applied at the level

For mine, the fact that HRC have not released the data is that 'gray' area in their accusations and I do not subscribe to the theory that they have not at the request of DORNA as HRC think they are bigger than DORNA and would want to support Marquez to the full.

Nope, my bet is the data is inconclusive and thus they have sat tight

HRC still has to play in Dorna's sandbox, and all it takes is the mere suggestion from Dorna to let the thing go, for them to drop it.

When teams and drivers were criticizing Pirelli tires in F1, Bernie Ecclestone read them the riot act in a meeting, and suddenly the criticism stopped.
 
Horse trading.


Or....you could believe Honda changed their minds because they are such nice people and didn't want anyone to look bad.


Either way this is correlated to Rossi and the effect he has on the sport.
 
HRC still has to play in Dorna's sandbox, and all it takes is the mere suggestion from Dorna to let the thing go, for them to drop it.

When teams and drivers were criticizing Pirelli tires in F1, Bernie Ecclestone read them the riot act in a meeting, and suddenly the criticism stopped.

Perhaps what Dorna did was ban Honda from using RD's mind reading facilities in concert with the telemetry etc.

As I recall it was fairly widely reported that Dorna had asked Honda not to release the data at the time. Why they haven't subsequently can only be speculated, but I doubt it is because it reflects badly on MM. I guess to some extent it is in MM's interests to let it go if he has decided to be conciliatory, of which there is some suggestion from his public statements, and maybe even he doesn't want to be in Stoner's situation with VR 's crazy fan base, although unless VR instructs them I doubt that will change.

In all seriousness no race bike data can show anything except contact occurring, and even then showing contact with Rossi's foot is not the same as showing a deliberate kick

Sorry Yamaka, but whatever anyone says , even Mick Doohan, however strange MM's response the responsibility for the contact remains VR's , who has admitted making the non-racing move, looked twice before aiming his bike where he did, and all exegesis of slow motion footage is after the fact; it was a WTF moment at the time in regard to Rossi live, and certainly so for Nick Harris who was the commentator on the coverage I was watching and hardly a known Rossi hater. I also do struggle to recall a similar incident.

I have to say Superbike planet has about the same credibility in regard to GP bike racing as a Murdoch tabloid or Fox and Friends do in regard to politics, although more because he is a sensationalist and doubtful/ lazy in his journalistic practices than because he is biased against Rossi which I have no reason to believe is the case.
 
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Horse trading.


Or....you could believe Honda changed their minds because they are such nice people and didn't want anyone to look bad.


Either way this is correlated to Rossi and the effect he has on the sport.

Probably a threat change the rules to something that would benefit Yamaha got them to back off.
 
I'll admit that I've joined this thread late, but if I can add something:

In the (I believe) Sepang thread, Keshav stated he was pretty sure that Marquez was deliberately impeding Rossi in the race. I countered with the argument that I didn't believe so and said something to the effect that there was no proof. What stuck with me was when Keshav said:

"If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck"

So, when it involves Marquez...it's a cut and dried case in the trail of public opinion because they 'believe' Marquez had ill intentions. However, regarding Rossi's move back to Yamaha when it is practically impossible that there wasn't SOME influence by Carmelo or other influential figures, that the "If it walks talks and looks like a duck, then it's a duck" analogy is quickly cast aside in the demand for "Evidence"...evidence which the same people don't seem to require when it comes to persecuting any other rider who's name isn't Valentino Rossi.

Just my 2c.

Mind you what went on behind the scenes with Yamaha and Carmelo is speculation in the strictest sense of the word. Whereas - Marquez's actions - to those who had eyes - were there to be seen in hi-def and on the 60" flat screen.

It's amazing to me that this thread is still going. Reminds me of the story of the blind men who try to describe an elephant, one grabs the tail and says the elephant is like a big rope, the other grabs the trunk and says the elephant is like a giant snake, and then there were the other ones who picked up the elephant's .... and twisted it into different shapes and sizes to fit their narrative. :p
 
If my good homies Yamaka46 & J4rn0 applied a tenth of the same standard to convict and execute Marquez on Rossi, we'd have us a public beheading.


With all the moral outrage around here it was only a matter of time before someone demanded replacing RD rules with Sharia law. :p
 
Perhaps what Dorna did was ban Honda from using RD's mind reading facilities in concert with the telemetry etc.

As I recall it was fairly widely reported that Dorna had asked Honda not to release the data at the time. Why they haven't subsequently can only be speculated, but I doubt it is because it reflects badly on MM. I guess to some extent it is in MM's interests to let it go if he has decided to be conciliatory, of which there is some suggestion from his public statements, and maybe even he doesn't want to be in Stoner's situation with VR 's crazy fan base, although unless VR instructs them I doubt that will change.

In all seriousness no race bike data can show anything except contact occurring, and even then showing contact with Rossi's foot is not the same as showing a deliberate kick

Sorry Yamaka, but whatever anyone says , even Mick Doohan, however strange MM's response the responsibility for the contact remains VR's , who has admitted making the non-racing move, looked twice before aiming his bike where he did, and all exegesis of slow motion footage is after the fact; it was a WTF moment at the time in regard to Rossi live, and certainly so for Nick Harris who was the commentator on the coverage I was watching and hardly a known Rossi hater. I also do struggle to recall a similar incident.

I have to say Superbike planet has about the same credibility in regard to GP bike racing as a Murdoch tabloid or Fox and Friends do in regard to politics, although more because he is a sensationalist and doubtful/ lazy in his journalistic practices than because he is biased against Rossi which I have no reason to believe is the case.

My guess is the RCV telemetry probably showed something that was severely conflicting with Rossi's account of things. Likely a throttle input that then coincided with a sharp application of the brake that when timed matches the motion of Rossi's leg moving towards the RCV. But it's a moot point since the usual levers of pressure would have been applied to try and end the whole thing.
 
Mind you what went on behind the scenes with Yamaha and Carmelo is speculation in the strictest sense of the word. Whereas - Marquez's actions - to those who had eyes - were there to be seen in hi-def and on the 60" flat screen.

It's amazing to me that this thread is still going. Reminds me of the story of the blind men who try to describe an elephant, one grabs the tail and says the elephant is like a big rope, the other grabs the trunk and says the elephant is like a giant snake, and then there were the other ones who picked up the elephant's .... and twisted it into different shapes and sizes to fit their narrative. :p

Yes, he absolutely screwed with Rossi, by racing him legally for position. The abnormal mindset which would allow a GP bike racer to think he could get away with such a thing is almost unimaginable.
 
With all the moral outrage around here it was only a matter of time before someone demanded replacing RD rules with Sharia law. [emoji14]


What must cross your mind when you decide to quote me? It can only mean you want a reaction, an attempt out of the blue to instigate me, unprovoked agitation. You continually attempt to destroy threads with your attacks. I wonder if yet again those stake holders who have expressed an opinion on this matter, like MickD and Migs will take the approach of general unspecific blanket statements, avoiding calling you out by name, when it is overwhelmingly clear YOU Keshav instigate flame wars. Here is another clear example! Can any stakeholder here (who has followed our particular interaction) explain why Keshav's smug condescending unsolicited post deliberately directed at me should be ignored as provocation?

I've made it clear, please cease to make contact with me. I have not initiated contact with you in any way shape or form, yet here you are again directly trying to engage me. Have you forgot you spent most of last year insulting me personally? You've not only insulted me, but my dear friends as well. Do you think I've forgotten that and suddenly I'm going to have a friendly casual conversation with you?

And to bring up such a controversially charged topic as Sharia law, aimed solely to agitate what otherwise was developing as a racing discussion until your interjection. Your use of an emoticon is disconnected. It's clear you have no regard or respect for your own commitments nor this forum. You are toxic to this place. You insult people to the core then expect them to engage you casually; this insistance reveals your disturbing understanding for human interaction. This is abnormal behavior, and frankly quite perturbing.
 
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Yes, he absolutely screwed with Rossi, by racing him legally for position. The abnormal mindset which would allow a GP bike racer to think he could get away with such a thing is almost unimaginable.

"This sarcasm, if I may call it such, does not become you, O my little brother."

It's a matter of perception. Some see it one way and others differently. Reasonable minds will differ. My perception (as well as numerous journalists) is that MM could have easily passed Rossi but instead chose to play games with him; to many he was mocking him as surely as he was when he passed him in the corkscrew.

Your perception is that MM was engaged in a legitimate duel for position.

We can only agree to disagree. I respect your well formed opinion - but it's just something I feel in my bones.

Peace,
K
 
What must cross your mind when you decide to quote me? It can only mean you want a reaction, an attempt out of the blue to instigate me, unprovoked agitation. You continually attempt to destroy threads with your attacks. I wonder if yet again those stake holders who have expressed an opinion on this matter, like MickD and Migs will take the approach of general unspecific blanket statements, avoiding calling you out by name, when it is overwhelmingly clear YOU Keshav instigate flame wars. Here is another clear example! Can any stakeholder here (who has followed our particular interaction) explain why Keshav's smug condescending unsolicited post deliberately directed at me should be ignored as provocation?

I've made it clear, please cease to make contact with me. I have not initiated contact with you in any way shape or form, yet here you are again directly trying to engage me. Have you forgot you spent most of last year insulting me personally? You've not only insulted me, but my dear friends as well. Do you think I've forgotten that and suddenly I'm going to have a friendly casual conversation with you?

And to bring up such a controversially charged topic as Sharia law, aimed solely to agitate what otherwise was developing as a racing discussion until your interjection. Your use of an emoticon is disconnected. It's clear you have no regard or respect for your own commitments nor this forum. You are toxic to this place. You insult people to the core then expect them to engage you casually; this insistance reveals your disturbing behavior of human interaction. This is abnormal behavior, and frankly quite perturbing.


Suggesting a public beheading of a sports figure? That's a serious race discussion? Maybe in Saudi Arabia.

So what do you want? Pistols at dawn to defend your honor? It's called taking the piss. Enough already with hyperbolic posturing. Are you really going to have a nervous break-down every time someone deflates one of your over the top statements with a mild dig? Chill out. You'll live longer.
 
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What do you want? Pistols at dawn to defend your honor? It's called taking the piss. Enough already with hyperbolic posturing. Are you really going to have a nervous break-down every time someone deflates one of your over the top statements with a mild dig? Chill out. You'll live longer.

For someone who claims he doesn't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows you sure piss straight into the wind a lot.
 
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Mind you what went on behind the scenes with Yamaha and Carmelo is speculation in the strictest sense of the word. Whereas - Marquez's actions - to those who had eyes - were there to be seen in hi-def and on the 60" flat screen.

Agreed, but then so were Rossi's actions, even more clearly.

"This sarcasm, if I may call it such, does not become you, O my little brother."

It's a matter of perception. Some see it one way and others differently. Reasonable minds will differ. My perception (as well as numerous journalists) is that MM could have easily passed Rossi but instead chose to play games with him; to many he was mocking him as surely as he was when he passed him in the corkscrew.

Your perception is that MM was engaged in a legitimate duel for position.

We can only agree to disagree. I respect your well formed opinion - but it's just something I feel in my bones.

Peace,
K

And this is the issue. I see it differently to you. Sure, I totally agree that some such as yourself may see MM as toying with Rossi, but:

1. Has Rossi not himself toyed with and interferred with other riders in the past? Motegi 2010 being the first example that comes to my head. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

2. IF Marquez was toying with him. That still, in no reality, justifies Rossi's actions.
 
"This sarcasm, if I may call it such, does not become you, O my little brother."

It's a matter of perception. Some see it one way and others differently. Reasonable minds will differ. My perception (as well as numerous journalists) is that MM could have easily passed Rossi but instead chose to play games with him; to many he was mocking him as surely as he was when he passed him in the corkscrew.

Your perception is that MM was engaged in a legitimate duel for position.

We can only agree to disagree. I respect your well formed opinion - but it's just something I feel in my bones.

Peace,
K
As I have said before, I don't agree to disagree on this one. MM legally raced VR for position, which by definition he is allowed to do; it is in fact the essence of the sport. If Rossi doesn't like it when it doesn't suit him, tough, particularly after proclaiming this is what he is about for all these years. I don't see how yours, Rossi's , mine or anyone else's perceptions come into it, including RD's perception; they are there to adjudicate on the rules and if necessary enforce the rules, not read minds imo.

If your perception is correct, then VR was slower than MM as well as Lorenzo and Pedrosa and was going to finish 4th, and my "perception" is hence that he maintained 3 points of his championship lead by deliberately riding illegally. He had the options of making a pass stick on MM if he was good enough to do so or accepting that he couldn't, neither of which he took, and imo as I have said what he did gave him his maximum possible advantage from the race.
 
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This has been my point since the beginning. Rossi himself said "It's racing Casey" in 2008, but doesn't like it when he doesn't come out on top.
 
For someone who claims he doesn't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows you sure piss straight into the wind a lot.

Don't you find it interesting that no matter how many protestations are issued for having civil discourse, one man finds a way to wreck it constantly?
 
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Don't you find it interesting that no matter how many protestations are issued for having civil discourse, one man finds a way to wreck it constantly?
With Migs back and his insights, surely he will point out by name the initial instigating culprit in no uncertain terms. I honestly think its time, especially since this latest episode can be so easily determined and traced to Kesh for stakeholders to gloss it over and point this out. Its not enough to just ignore this bully.
 
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With Migs back and his insights, surely he will point out by name the initial instigating culprit in no uncertain terms. I honestly think its time, especially since this latest episode can be so easily determined and traced to Kesh for stakeholders to gloss it over and point this out. Its not enough to just ignore this bully.

I have high hopes for Migs.

Hopefully he can call out the antagonist for once since I, you, JKD, MDubs, and whomever else is a gang member have said nothing.
 
For someone who claims he doesn't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows you sure piss straight into the wind a lot.

Pretty ironic words for a guy who's avatar shows him with his .... elevated higher than his head. :rolleyes:
 
Agreed, but then so were Rossi's actions, even more clearly.



And this is the issue. I see it differently to you. Sure, I totally agree that some such as yourself may see MM as toying with Rossi, but:

1. Has Rossi not himself toyed with and interferred with other riders in the past? Motegi 2010 being the first example that comes to my head. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

2. IF Marquez was toying with him. That still, in no reality, justifies Rossi's actions.

No arguments with either point one or two. Them's the facts.
 

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