Assen TT - Rnd 8 2015 - SPOILERS

Jumkie said:

"Kamikaze move"? Wait wait, wait, you said he had "evolved" (laughably sandwiched between two crashes) has the evolutionary period reduced again from 'right now' to 'maybe later'?

Kesh, the forum was "civil" because there were no civilians left in the ghost town that the forum became. There was Pov and Migs circle jerk, which i guess was safe enough for Krops to return. The old timers did NOT come back because it was "civil", we're did u get this idea?

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The Egg preceded the Chicken, Jum. :bangin:

FWIW, this old timer agrees with Kesh 100% The old PS 'Lord of the Flies' vibe was overbearing. After one post where I found myself bashing Barry for no sane reason, I realized I needed some fresh air. Right about that time, the moderator arbitrarily banished Rog for 'crimes' no less obnoxious than the norm. Those two factors were enough to make me quit cold turkey. Here's hoping the forum stays relatively civil.

Marc Massacre's dive bomb was just a few clicks shy of Capirossi's take-out of Harada back in 1998. Rossi's ....-eating grin says all you need to know about the premeditated corner-cut.

JPSLotus said:

I know Rossi's track record is what it is when it comes to using contact to win on the final lap of a race, but I question whether Rossi purposely put himself into that position.

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I agree, I don't think Rossi "purposefully put himself into that position", what I'm saying is he had worked out beforehand what he would do if Marc had dive-bombed there, knowing that cutting the chicane was viable.

JPSLotus said:

Given Marc nearly torpedoing a number of riders in FP, and then J-Lo two weeks ago, you have to be damn sure Marc isn't going to just plow straight through. I'm not entirely sure if it's a risk worth taking because then that would have put J-Lo up on points in the title battle, and there's simply no upside to it.

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Agree, that is exactly why I think Rossi had thought about what he might do if Marc predictably attempted a punt. While Marc is more out of control into that incident, Rossi was in control to avoid further contact by running straight through. Enough riders have ran through that chicane to know if you run straight through you will emerge at the finish line unscathed.

JPSLotus said:

Watching the overhead camera angle from the helicopter, all I see is Marc trying to torpedo Rossi right out of the race, he was carrying far too much speed into the corner, and wasn't even on the racing line. If you remove Rossi from the picture, MM would have missed the apex completely, ran wide, then lost even more speed taking the second corner to come out onto the main straight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=10&v=umxpugzctsw

Rossi covers, then moves back to the left to take the corner. I'm sure he was aware of MurderMac probably coming in hot, but I don't know. It's such a huge risk, and as mentioned, he needed the points big time.

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Good vid. I'm laughing because had this been Lorenzo in from Marc instead of Rossi, how many people would have been claiming fair play to Marc because "Lorenzo left the door open"? Like they claimed at Jerez. The overhead shot shows a space where Marc decided to put his bike, as you say, it doesn't mean a bike should fit there. For sure Rossi left some space and Marc took that space, making the apex is the afterthought. Though he did stay on the tarmac. For sure Marc took a risk, and the front view camera angle shows his bike all out of shape (or as Kropo calls it, " precisely threading the needle"). The problem seems to be that the RCV is such a dog that Marc had no choice but to make up .5sec on that turn.

Again, my opinion is that Rossi had worked out a countermeasure in the event Marc predictably tried to dive bomb. I just wish the consequences matched the risk.

Markey Mark was never making that turn. Silly, desperate move, Rossi is no Angel, but Marquez has proven time and time again, he has no regard for the safety of other riders. Marco would have been crucified for this. If Stoner was still racing, he would be kicking up .... about this. Sadly, HRC golden boy has a get out of jail free card. Clever race by Jorge, no heroics, rack up the points.

michaelm said:

Yes, if he actually knocked Valentino into the dirt MM can't complain. Valentino might even be canny enough to have done it deliberately after the contact.

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My impression.

Be interesting to see how Kropo addresses Marc the Merciless' torpedo attack.
Krop willl surely devote most of the article to chumming the frenzied Boppers; those poor creatures haven't savored a good lump of flesh in some time.

But what of Da Bomb? Will it be 'heroic,' 'desperate,' 'determined,' or???

basspete said:

Market Mark was never making that turn. Silly, desperate move, Rossi is no Angel, but Marquez has proven time and time again, he has no regard for the safety of other riders. Marco would have been crucified for this. If Stoner was still racing, he would be kicking up .... about this. Sadly, HE's golden boy has a get out of jail free card. Clever race by Jorge, no heroics, rack up the points.

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Absolutely agree. As Lotus pointed out, Marc was not about making that apex but rather putting his bike into the space between Rossi and the curb. I'm laughing because recently its been argued that the RCV just can't brake properly (which prompted an unidentified pundit to say its like Marc has one hand tied behind his back). The problem is that the brakes don't function when no pressure is applied to the lever. I guess its hard to press on the brakes when your hand is shackled like that. Hahaha

It time to stand up to this injustice!
Marc has been made to compete
shackled, with one arm tied behind
his back! Today he should have won
had it not been for a "problem" in
his way. He tried his best to "ride
around err through the problem,
again. Its not fair, and we won't
tolerate it any longer.

Jumkie said:

A "Kamikaze move"? Wait wait, wait, you said he had "evolved" (laughably sandwiched between two crashes) has the evolutionary period reduced again from 'right now' to 'maybe later'?

Of course Rossi was unfazed by it, he won. Perhaps had he gone cartwheel in off or hit the wall going into the straight he might have a different facial expression (and his fans calling for blood). What was Rossi going to say? Hey, it's not cool to punt riders into the last turn? That certainly would have made Sete smile.

B Kesh, the forum was "civil" because there were no civilians left in the ghost town that the forum became. There was Pov and Migs circle jerk, which i guess was safe enough for Krops to return. The old timers did NOT come back because it was "civil", we're did u get this idea?

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A. Beat a dead horse much Jum? I didn't say he'd turned into a saint. As has been pointed out countless times (by yourself as well) - Rossi has been equally enamored of dangerous last minute tactics of questionable ethics.

B. Some may take everything you say as gospel. You certainly do. You seem to think you're imbued with some god-given power to define the narrative here. But there were quite a number of us who came back while you were away on sabbatical - who don't hold to that belief. I've dialoged with numerous members in PMs about this. Did so rather than give the appearence of using the forum for the purpose of bad-mouthing members no longer present and take my word for it - people were sick to death of the bickering. Bile, bitterness, unrelenting snarkiness towards other members and personal attacks and insults are not a good platform for friendship which is what makes the forum an inviting place. I've spent time with you Compa and know what an incredibly generous, fun guy you are in real life. That goes for all the guys who were at Laguna - except for a certain guy who couldn't forgive me for showing up in a Casey Stoner t shirt. I don't have to even write the next sentence - you get the drift.

Jumkie said:

Absolutely agree. As Lotus pointed out, Marc was not about making that apex but rather putting his bike into the space between Rossi and the curb. I'm laughing because recently its been argued that the RCV just can't brake properly (which prompted an unidentified pundit to say its like Marc has one hand tied behind his back). The problem is that the brakes don't function when no pressure is applied to the lever. I guess its hard to press on the brakes when your hand is shackled like that. Hahaha

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He has reverted to the older frame on which he had so many successful races ... which any reasonable person will agree, can make all the difference. Just sayin'.

Iowegian said:

That press conference was comedy gold.

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It really was excellent. Watching Lorenzo's face during the questions was classic.

Keshav said:

A. Beat a dead horse much Jum? I didn't say he'd turned into a saint. As has been pointed out countless times (by yourself as well) - Rossi has been equally enamored of dangerous last minute tactics of questionable ethics.

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I certainly do, when the person rather than conceding digs in to the untenable position.

Keshav said:

B. Some may take everything you say as gospel. You certainly do. You always seem to think you have some god-given power to define the narrative here.

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That's hilarious dude. Who doesn't think their opinions here are the god-given truth? Very few, and you're not among them. You just spend the last week debating the Rossi-Ducati era, and from my vantage point, you thought you were as right as the other guy presenting his position. (BTW, I enjoyed the debate, though your posts were a bit lazy, Heisman, Budiost, and Michael didn't state a point then when asked to substantiate it replied, well you go look it up yourself. Newsflash Kesh, we ALLL think we are right, not just me!

Keshav said:

But there were quite a number of us who came back while you were away on sabbatical - who don't hold to that belief. I've dialoged with numerous members in PMs about this. Did so rather than give the appearence of using the forum for the purpose of bad-mouthing members no longer present and take my word for it - people were sick to death of the bickering. Bile, bitterness, unrelenting snarkiness towards other members and personal attacks and insults are not a good platform for friendship which is what makes the forum an inviting place.

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And to contrast that, several members have come back decidedly for the banter and .... talking. Not sure if you've been paying attention, but when people think differently about an incident, and we always do, arguments happen. What gets me about this point of yours is that you have more than your share of participating in insults and snide remarks, and as I said before, I guess its only bad when others are doing it, right? You were a participant in THEE most epic "Bile, bitterness, unrelenting snakinesspersonal attacks and insults" events ever on this forum! Of all the episodes that can be described this way, that one was the worst! And it still hurts me that this was aired out here. Which frankly I would still like to forget. Seems a bit rich to take the high moral ground now.

Edit: and if you wish to plead your case with specifics or rehash the incident, I'd rather you PM me.

Keshav said:

I've spent time with you
Compa and know what an incredibly generous, fun guy you are in real life. That goes for all the guys who were at Laguna - except for a certain guy who couldn't forgive me for showing up in a Casey Stoner t shir. I don't have to even write the next sentence - you get the drift.

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Good times, the best in my life. Its been said before, part of the problem is that tone doesn't convey well on typed words, half the time I'm laughing while others are taking the words so seriously. People get bent so easily.

I particularly liked jorges response when he was asked if vr and mm battling would help him.

Keshav said:

He has reverted to the older frame on which he had so many successful races ... which any reasonable person will agree, can make all the difference. Just sayin'.

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Its funny you say this, I was thinking about it during the race in particular. I was thinking, well if he wins, people will say, you see it was the chassis. If he loses, people will say, you see it was the chassis. Can't win, eh? (no pun)

The chassis was being blamed on him not being able to brake properly when he almost torpedoed Lorenzo in Catalunya, he came in too hot almost carbon copy at Assen, on the 'better' chassis (at least not the new 'flawed chassis') yet coming in too hot creating a similar situation, almost identical. Might those of us contending simply be correct contending that perhaps its just Marc the rider leaving the braking too late to attempt an impossible overtaking sequence?

Iowegian said:

I particularly liked jorges response when he was asked if vr and mm battling would help him.

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What did he say?

He basically said it will help him if they crash each other, but they didn't, so it didn't help him this time.

I expect to see Marc increase his aggressive behaviour. He admitted today he is not focused on the championship, he just wants to win races.

Jumkie said:

What did he say?

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You have to watch the whole post presser. If you don't have the video pass call me. I'll give you my info so you can check it out. It's a good one.

I was actually surprised to hear Marc claim to be the victim in this case. Rossi was clearly ahead and was going to win but Marc absolutely doesn't see it that way. They're both playing civil with one another on camera but as this continues, I think we'll see open warfare between these two if/when the next incident takes place.

I've finally gotten around to reading the post-race remarks. The crocodile tears are flowing like the Amazon.

levigarrett said:

You have to watch the whole post presser. If you don't have the video pass call me. I'll give you my info so you can check it out. It's a good one.

I was actually surprised to hear Marc claim to be the victim in this case. Rossi was clearly ahead and was going to win but Marc absolutely doesn't see it that way. They're both playing civil with one another on camera but as this continues, I think we'll see open warfare between these two if/when the next incident takes place.

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Ya. When asked if Marquez had learned anything from Rossi this race?
He replied "motocross. Nothing else."
Might get ugly fellas.
Dang. I really need to get to Indy.

levigarrett said:

You have to watch the whole post presser. If you don't have the video pass call me. I'll give you my info so you can check it out. It's a good one.

I was actually surprised to hear Marc claim to be the victim in this case. Rossi was clearly ahead and was going to win but Marc absolutely doesn't see it that way. They're both playing civil with one another on camera but as this continues, I think we'll see open warfare between these two if/when the next incident takes place.

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Well judging from his brother's reaction, Rossi robbed Marc at gun point. Hahaha

Iowegian said:

He basically said it will help him if they crash each other, but they didn't, so it didn't help him this time.

I expect to see Marc increase his aggressive behaviour. He admitted today he is not focused on the championship, he just wants to win races.

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I think a bit got lost in translation, allow me to explain what he meant:

He admitted today he is not focused on the championship, he just wants to crash into people.

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