Aragon GP 2011: RACE

Jumkie · Sep 20, 2011

Keshav said:
Had to go to a freakin' stupid wedding and missed watching the race live. So far I can't watch it on MGP site because the arseholes have the wrong video loaded up. When I click on Aragon 2011 - the stupid Dorna computer plays the race from Misano. Same with the Moto 2. And after reading this thread so laden with comments about how boring the race is - I feel too entombed in enui to try and watch it once Dorna does gets the feeds right.

I met up with a few friends last night who are AMA mechanics. We were having a small BBQ because I brought over the season on DVDs recorded for them. They had not seen their own races because they are usually working during the events. By the time they get home they have missed them on NaSpeed channel. They hadn't watched this weekend's race either, and I told them how awesome the Moto2 race was (the one that was not "boring"). hehe. Anyway, so we go through the pains of buying an adapter we needed to hook up my buddy's laptop to his TV. After I had built up the race as the best thing I'd seen in a while, they were all convinced they should serve ourselves first because none of us wanted to miss one moment of the race. So we sit there all with plates in hand and then I tell them, ok, I'm gonna press play. So I go to my account, click on Moto2 Aragon and press play.

They are like, yo, I think you click on the wrong one, this is Misano. Oh, crap I thought. Sorry. So I click on Aragon Moto2. Misano again starts to play. Well as you know there are several ways to get to Moto2. Through the "latest videos" button, or "live videos" or "non-spoiler videos " etc. I go through a slew of about 5-6 different ways to access that race, and nothing. By now everybody is like What The ....! I try and try, but nothing. So finally somebody suggests, well .... it, lets watch the MotoGP race. Damn. (You know, the "main" event). Ok. So I click on that and Misano again comes up. So again, I go through the process of accessing the race all the different ways, but nothing. .....

Anyway, I kept messing with computer and found out that while watching the Misano race which was mislabeled Aragon, if you switched resolution, sometimes the system would switch to the Aragon race. Yeah, crazy ....! So while clicked on Aragon, if you had "HD"clicked, it would show Misano. But if you switched the quality down to "hi-res" it would show the Misano. But this didn't work for the Moto2 race. What a ....... let down. We all left with a form of racing blue balls.

In the words of Michaelm: .... YOU Motogpcom/Dorna video package!!!

povol · Sep 20, 2011

Jumkie said:
Pov, why cant u answer the simply question? U just explained why u think there isnt close racing. Great. My question is how would u like the people describing the lack of close racing. They use the word "boring". Obviously u hav a revolting reaction to the word. I dont think the people describing it as such are casual fans of the sport. Most peeps here are actually avid folliwers of the sport. So again, how would u like peeps describe the lack of close racing? Keep in mind, some years hav been closer and it was still prototype racing. So one does not mean the other must not exist.

I dont like them at all

In all seriousness, if their bored, their bored. They just dont understand the sport. Most came on board during a "certain era" where close racing was manufactured by a certain individual. They didnt know it was contrived to build a legacy, so that is what they got used to. Now they just dont understand why things cant be the way they used to be. They have not been around long enough to know that more often than not, there has been runaway winners in the history of the sport.That championships are rarely close. If their bored now, thats their problem. Casey could ride around on Lorenzo or Pedrosa's rear wheel for 20 laps then win by 3-4 seconds in the last 4 laps and all would be well in the world of GP i guess. The only problem, thats not who Casey is. He could care less if some schmuck is standing at the water cooler on Monday, carrying on about how he did it again, right there in the last few laps, damn he's unbelievable, the best ive ever seen blah blah blah. He would just as soon grind your ... to dust and go about his boring way, lot less do deal with.

Jumkie · Sep 20, 2011

Geonerd said:
ZOT!!

Even Haystack is stating the obvious in public:

http://www.bikesport...den&newsid=5668

Wow, that is easily the most scathing (in Hayden terms) description of the situation I have ever read from Nicky. Dang, when you have peeps like NH saying something not totally positive about his employer, you know there is big problems.

By David Miller

Image by Ducati Corse

Marlboro Ducati's Nicky Hayden says Ducati have gone backwards in terms of developing their MotoGP Desmosedici after the American finished yesterday's Motorland Aragon race a full 25 seconds slower than he did the previous year.

Hayden admits that an off-track excursion added a couple of seconds to the total and some of the increased time could be down to him but not the full amount, adding that the team needs to sit down a figure out a direction, given that team-mate Valentino Rossi has said the new aluminium chassis hasn't fixed their problems.

"I don't think I am 25 seconds slower. The rider can take some of the heat but not that much. Twenty five seconds is a lot. I did run off the track for a couple of seconds but we don't have the answer. We have tried a lot of stuff, maybe too much stuff," said Hayden, speaking to bikesportnews.com.

"It's clear we are not making any real progress. They're working hard but I think we have gone backwards, truthfully. Looking at too much stuff and doing things. We're not going to stay home or give up. This is the first proper race I have done with this bike and it is clear we have gone wrong somewhere. I'm not exactly sure. Casey was fast but Spies, Lorenzo, guys like who didn't change bikes were also slower but we don't understand it.

'We are so far off we want to look, look, look at so many different areas and we probably didn't do a good job - maybe we have tried too much in one season but a lot of it is looking forward to next year. We need to try some stuff and figure out a direction."

Hey Tom & Pov, check it out, a paddock principal blaming his woes on the machine. What a total liar, eh.

Jumkie · Sep 20, 2011

povol said:
Its very strange because its untrue. The Ducati that Rossi rode yesterday was 10kph faster on the straights than the Ducati Stoner rode last year

And was the second fastest bike in the whole field. Only Aoyama's bike was faster.

Keshav · Sep 20, 2011

Andy Roo said:
This perhaps in an offbeat kind of way explains why I am an atheist.

Someone claims a miraculous event

And I still don't see it.

Help me here please - explain the miracle - how history was made

Now winning back to back titles and races with two different manufacturers was cool and I can see the juju

It may be the drugs I'm on but this needs some work (sorry if I seems dense at the moment)

A cogent explanation that cuts through oxycontin

His or yours?

Jumkie · Sep 20, 2011

Andy Roo said:
This perhaps in an offbeat kind of way explains why I am an atheist.

Someone claims a miraculous event

And I still don't see it.

Help me here please - explain the miracle - how history was made

Now winning back to back titles and races with two different manufacturers was cool and I can see the juju

It may be the drugs I'm on but this needs some work (sorry if I seems dense at the moment)

A cogent explanation that cuts through oxycontin

Andy, Bluegreen was responding to Penguin. Read between the line buddy. Well, try to do it when you're not high an all.

Jumkie · Sep 20, 2011

spooky said:
surely having 4 or 5 bikes on the gird is pointless if only 1 person can ride it though? Freaks like Stoner dont come about often, what are Ducati supposed to do, develop freaks to ride their bikes?

Ducati isn't even grid filler anymore. They are all back markers (when they are not spitting their riders into oblivion).

povol · Sep 20, 2011

Jumkie said:
Wow, that is easily the most scathing (in Hayden terms) description of the situation I have ever read from Nicky. Dang, when you have peeps like NH saying something not totally positive about his employer, you know there is big problems.

Hey Tom & Pov, check it out, a paddock principal blaming his woes on the machine. What a total liar, eh.

And that has what to do with your insinuation that a certain team in Moto2 is somehow "legally" gaining an advantage. I dont get it.

Jumkie · Sep 20, 2011

xx CURVE xx said:
if Stoner is such a phenomena..why wasnt he durring 2008, 2009, 2010?

J-Lo has disappointed me big time, makes 2010 look like a fluke cause i expected a better fight from him for the #1

Brotha, you know I totally respect your opinion (now, hehe), but I gotta disagree with the above. Stoner was on Rossi's earlier-season-bike, that's basically the one Stoner ran from 2008-2010. If we are going to say Ducati is ...., then it must apply that assessment to those years too. Otherwise it makes Rossi look even worse (if that's possible) this year for not doing anything on it except developing that thing backwards. Stoner, as much as I'm on board that he's shown to be a bit of a whiner, nonetheless, has won the most races in the era, and that was while on the shittiest machine in the paddock. That is very impressive.

J-Lo is still second in the points, right? And would have another title this year if it wasn't for Stoner. Notice I didn't say Honda. Why, because if we make Stoner disappear off the face of Earth, J-lo then beats three factory Hondas to the title in 2011 (not to mention his own teammate on the Yamaha).

Btw, good news, I found your Faster Dvd, still looking for The Greatest Season in Modern-Day history review.

Jumkie · Sep 20, 2011

povol said:
And that has what to do with your insinuation that a certain team in Moto2 is somehow "legally" gaining an advantage. I dont get it.

Addressing yours and Toms claim that a paddock principal cannot be honest but must have some ax to grind. They cannot be trusted when commenting on their results since they are not winning. Its not that hard to figure out what I'm saying, since it was you who agreed with Tom on this, "bingo" remember? Is it that hard for you to follow the logic buddy, when applied to different situations? Logic, like math, applies across situations.

Mr Squiggle · Sep 20, 2011

povol said:
ITS PROTOTYPE RACING, a form of racing that inherently produces runaway victories and championships. There is always someone who comes up with a better design, a more tractable engine, better aero etc: Once that is achieved, the best pilots are standing in line. You mix the 2 together and you have F1, Gp, or the old IMSA series. It is what it is, a contest of engineering capabilities. If it doesnt produce the results you like, your just not a fan of prototype racing, which you have already stated. I happen to be a fan of prototype racing, but i can differentiate it from spec racing and not expect the same results. In fact, i abhor the thought of them being the same. Would i make changes in GP, you betcha, but it would not be in the name of close racing. If close racing was a byproduct of such changes, so be it. If they created even more of a performance gap, so be it. Can i make myself any clearer, i dont give a .... if there is 1 bike or 4 bikes at the finish line of a GP race, it is not why i follow the sport.

___________________________________________________________________________________________

I dont like them at all

In all seriousness, if their bored, their bored. They just dont understand the sport. Most came on board during a "certain era" where close racing was manufactured by a certain individual. They didnt know it was contrived to build a legacy, so that is what they got used to. Now they just dont understand why things cant be the way they used to be. They have not been around long enough to know that more often than not, there has been runaway winners in the history of the sport.That championships are rarely close. If their bored now, thats their problem. Casey could ride around on Lorenzo or Pedrosa's rear wheel for 20 laps then win by 3-4 seconds in the last 4 laps and all would be well in the world of GP i guess. The only problem, thats not who Casey is. He could care less if some schmuck is standing at the water cooler on Monday, carrying on about how he did it again, right there in the last few laps, damn he's unbelievable, the best ive ever seen blah blah blah. He would just as soon grind your ... to dust and go about his boring way, lot less do deal with.

Thanks Povol for that perspective on prototype racing....this is exactly how I feel about it too.

Build the best mousetrap, hire the best rider and watch them .... off into the distance....if the manufacturer has designed a superior bike according to the regulations and the rider has the talent/capability then this is the inevitable "perfect storm" scenario much like we are seeing this year....same as 94-98 and 2007-2010. People only get upset about this scenario when it is a rider they dislike grinding everyone into the dust.

It is funny to think people get whiney and bored when confronted with what is perhaps for me one of the most interesting aspects of prototype racing....ie watching man and machine merge into one completely fluid entity when at the top of their game. Watching Stoner ride the Honda this year has been a joy to behold as he seems to have psychic control of that machine and is consistently riding it at the absolute limit and that is NEVER boring to watch as far as I am concerned.

Anyway you can still get your fix of close races in Moto2/125/WSBK/BSB etc etc. if that is what you are missing in MGP.

Jumkie · Sep 20, 2011

Mr Squiz, i suspect ur newfound love for prototype racing was not as robust 2008-2010.

birdman · Sep 20, 2011

Jumkie said:
Mr Squiz, i suspect ur newfound love for prototype racing was not as robust 2008-2010.

Are you getting 'boredom' confused with 'dissappointment'. Some years are more disappointing than others. Certain years (while supporting Biaggi) were so dissappointing I turned off in disgust and went to bed to cry in my pillow. But it was not and never has been 'boring'.

Sorry to cut in continue with Squiz....................

Good boy go Biaggi! ->......

Thats better, he meant it, honest he did.....................

Mr Squiggle · Sep 20, 2011

Jumkie said:
Mr Squiz, i suspect ur newfound love for prototype racing was not as robust 2008-2010.

And you would be entitled to your opinion which is only correct 50% of the time anyway

Jumkie · Sep 20, 2011

Mr Squiggle said:
And you would be entitled to your opinion which is only correct 50% of the time anyway

'...100% when arguing with you.' haha

Well friends, U and Bird can check my posts, ive not called the racing boring. U guys, like Pov are stuck on this word. Last year i sounded like u guys. I felt anybody calling the racing boring was a bopper or something. I distinctly remember raking Talps on th coals for describing it such. But i hav started to see their distinction. (Yes, i think there are some simply motivated by who is winning or losing, but those are easy to pick out). I think whats happening is that perhas the word itself is miss used, but i agree with the concept, which i think refers to the lack of close racing. I think some of u unwilling to entertain the thought feel like its just a dig at Stoner (which i also thought in years past). But i no longer think that is the case and many are actually thinking the racing aspect of the show sux. All of a sudden u guys want to call on the prototype card as infinately beautiful. Isnt Moto2 and the former 250 class also prototype racing? Newsflash, they deliver races that most would not describe as boring. I hav an intimate relationship with the concept of prototype racing, as ive used its characteristics and fundamentals in many debates. But when ive applied it to Haydens lack of results, suddenly its all about the rider. A bit of double standard. When Casey was crashing and losing titles to Rossi, i suspect "prototype" racing wasnt so admired in Oz. Suddenly now, prototype racing (the card ur using to support how unboring the racing is) is a wonderful thing. Well it wasnt so wonderful when Casey was crashing and getting literally sick over it (i believe the pressure and the difficulty of the machine accounted for his illness in great part). Wer u guys signing the praises of prototype racing? No, in fact Squiz, u wer arguing with Talps inspite of the bike.

So let me ask u and Birdman the same question Pov has not answered. How would u prefer people describe the lack of close racing? The kind that people get all 'excited' (i wonder what the antonyms of that word may suggest) about when they see races like Moto2 Aragon.

povol · Sep 20, 2011

Jumkie said:
Addressing yours and Toms claim that a paddock principal cannot be honest but must have some ax to grind. They cannot be trusted when commenting on their results since they are not winning. Its not that hard to figure out what I'm saying, since it was you who agreed with Tom on this, "bingo" remember? Is it that hard for you to follow the logic buddy, when applied to different situations? Logic, like math, applies across situations.

So is your connection in the paddock (a) bitching about his teams lack of progress, or (b ) tossing around unfounded accusations of "legal" cheating, what ever the .... that is. Even in a alternate universe, math cannot connect these 2. Nicky is not making accusations about another team for Ducati's lack of progress, your connection is.

birdman · Sep 20, 2011

Bored is a word I asscociate with having lost all emotions watching guys on the limit riding bikes. I've never felt that. Certain races, months, even years, I feel dissapointed, frustrated, annoyed, angry. Other times I feel happy, elated.

If you are saying your losing all emotions watching, and there is a significant audiance who agrees, then yes the current situation is a big problem and needs to be fixed.

But if you, me, Biaggi, and Rossi have bad years and therefore want the prototype bikes, the tyres, the rules, the world to change to make it all better, then I dont agree.

I just bought a friggin ipad for no reason other than it looks cool. I get huge enjoyment with new gadgets. I marval at how things evolve. That includes bikes. I love my radial brakes, slipper clutch, efi, power commander, dual compound tyres. I dont find going back to a Commodore 64 very interesting at all, nor bikes evolving backwards. I want them to be even more radical if anything.

povol · Sep 20, 2011

Jumkie said:
'...100% when arguing with you.' haha

Well friends, U and Bird can check my posts, ive not called the racing boring. U guys, like Pov are stuck on this word. Last year i sounded like u guys. I felt anybody calling the racing boring was a bopper or something. I distinctly remember raking Talps on th coals for describing it such. But i hav started to see their distinction. (Yes, i think there are some simply motivated by who is winning or losing, but those are easy to pick out). I think whats happening is that perhas the word itself is miss used, but i agree with the concept, which i think refers to the lack of close racing. I think some of u unwilling to entertain the thought feel like its just a dig at Stoner (which i also thought in years past). But i no longer think that is the case and many are actually thinking the racing aspect of the show sux. All of a sudden u guys want to call on the prototype card as infinately beautiful. Isnt Moto2 and the former 250 class also prototype racing? Newsflash, they deliver races that most would not describe as boring. I hav an intimate relationship with the concept of prototype racing, as ive used its characteristics and fundamentals in many debates. But when ive applied it to Haydens lack of results, suddenly its all about the rider. A bit of double standard. When Casey was crashing and losing titles to Rossi, i suspect "prototype" racing wasnt so admired in Oz. Suddenly now, prototype racing (the card ur using to support how unboring the racing is) is a wonderful thing. Well it wasnt so wonderful when Casey was crashing and getting literally sick over it (i believe the pressure and the difficulty of the machine accounted for his illness in great part). Wer u guys signing the praises of prototype racing? No, in fact Squiz, u wer arguing with Talps inspite of the bike.

So let me ask u and Birdman the same question Pov has not answered. How would u prefer people describe the lack of close racing? The kind that people get all 'excited' (i wonder what the antonyms of that word may suggest) about when they see races like Moto2 Aragon.

Actually no, anything with a spec engine is not prototype racing.

xx CURVE xx · Sep 20, 2011

Jumkie said:
Brotha, you know I totally respect your opinion (now, hehe), but I gotta disagree with the above. Stoner was on Rossi's earlier-season-bike, that's basically the one Stoner ran from 2008-2010. If we are going to say Ducati is ...., then it must apply that assessment to those years too. Otherwise it makes Rossi look even worse (if that's possible) this year for not doing anything on it except developing that thing backwards. Stoner, as much as I'm on board that he's shown to be a bit of a whiner, nonetheless, has won the most races in the era, and that was while on the shittiest machine in the paddock. That is very impressive.

J-Lo is still second in the points, right? And would have another title this year if it wasn't for Stoner. Notice I didn't say Honda. Why, because if we make Stoner disappear off the face of Earth, J-lo then beats three factory Hondas to the title in 2011 (not to mention his own teammate on the Yamaha).

Btw, good news, I found your Faster Dvd, still looking for The Greatest Season in Modern-Day history review.

what im saying is that Stoners performance on the Duc decreased year by year cause the Duc was stagnant while Yam and Honda got better Bro

WooHoo where was it!!

Jumkie · Sep 20, 2011

povol said:
So is your connection in the paddock (a) bitching about his teams lack of progress, or (b ) tossing around unfounded accusations of "legal" cheating, what ever the .... that is. Even in a alternate universe, math cannot connect these 2. Nicky is not making accusations about another team for Ducati's lack of progress, your connection is.

Ok, it looks like i need to slow it down for u. A principal in the paddock, according to u, when giving a negative assesment, cannot be trusted. Becuz they hav a motive. But this doesnt apply to the organizers right? Ur logic. And this doesnt apply to riders u like, right? U hav difficulty applying logic to similar situations according to ur tribalism. Im actually not surprised.

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