2023 SHARK Grand Prix de France

MdubSTYLIE · May 14, 2023

MichaelBolton said:
Bit of an anticlimatic finish after so much action. Marc with a great ride, it pains me to see him crash when he had the podium in his hands. Stewards with another howler in how they handled Binder's ""shortcut"". Bagnaia should've anticipated better his clash with Mav, but although I think the Italian was at fault, I wouldn't sanction either. Unfortunate what happened with Marini and A. Márquez, at least they avoided tragedy. 4 independent riders occupying the top 4, Augusto was amazing on that KTM.

Bindaaah was absolutely hosed by being given a long crap penalty. He did the right thing and let off losing position and time. Best thing he could have done in this situation if he knew a long lap was coming was to just floor it. He was punished for doing the right thing.

MdubSTYLIE · May 14, 2023

Mick D said:
Bashing bikes all over the place. Fascinated to see what the stewards will, or won't, come up with.

A. Marq should be punished for being on the race line when little rossi bashed him. How dare he not stop move over and let Lucka through.

evo9 · May 14, 2023

Keshav said:
I’m with you on that account. I hate to say it, but - I have talked with guys who were who were for years super-obsessive fans and I found a lot of them just lost interest. People move to new cultures, start having kids, get serious about making art, want to spend more time at the pub.

michaelm said:
I need a rider to support to be really interested, who since Hayden and Stoner have been Lorenzo then Marquez, no Marquez for the last 3 years has caused my interest to wane somewhat, although I still always watch unless it is at 3:00 am in the morning Sydney time. I like Jack Miller, partly for reasons of patriotism, but haven't ever seen him as a contender; I would be very happy if he proved me wrong on the KTM. I do like Binder. Oliveira and Rins and wouldn't mind seeing any of them contend.

Perhaps I have entered old fogeydom, but I really don't like the current direction of the bikes with the aerodynamics and ride height devices etc. I was a big fan of F1 when it was formula Cosworth, but the aerodynamics killed F1 for me, along with the obvious superiority of golden era 500 2 -stroke GP bike racing as a motorsport.

Bern1 said:
I don’t think any of the Japanese teams are being managed with any convincing leadership. Makes me wonder if they’ll stay in this MotoGP thing. Seems strange to contemplate.

Equally strange is that I seem apathetic to the circus. Yeah I’ll glance at the timesheets for practice and qualifying. Maybe. Sometimes I’ll watch a race. I’ve watched one sprint so far.

Vey good points made and I agree. This is the reasons why I've not renewed my subscription, I don't even watch it on TV either! I just read the various websites, only a matter of time before I completely disengaged with the sport. The single tire & spec ECU was the start of irritation for me. Then all this areo and shape shift gadgets really drives the nail in.

Some points of interest to point out. The fact that Honda have an aviation division, and is not taking advantage there in aero development is telling. Using a 3rd party to develop the frame is also telling instead of investing within to improve. We should also keep an eye on Yamaha. They too are using a 3rd party for their engines performance instead of investing within to improve. Lets see if they increase back to 4 bikes. If they are both passing off the expense to a 3rd party, something is up. I mean they are exposing some of their proprietary technology to these 3rd party. One can only assume the Japanese may be planning a retreat if, useless tech they cant sell don't go away.

mylexicon · May 14, 2023

Crazy opening laps to the 1000th Grand Prix. Sad for Mav. He had had pace, and the hard front tire would have gone the distance. Not sure if he could have beaten Bezzechi, but he could have tasted champagne, imo. The clash with Pecco was a racing incident, but one that Pecco could easily have avoided. He’s become accustomed to riding on the outside of his fellow Ducati riders, knowing they cannot knock him out and that their bikes will perform somewhat identically to his. Going around the outside on an Aprilia rider at a right-left S curve is not a high percentage move, unless you’re evaluating the chance of having a race ending clash. No one is required to back off, but that situation has traditionally been a no-brainer.

Glad Marini and A Marquez are both in one piece. That was one of the few instances when saving a crash was much worse than letting the bike go. Riders behind them did an amazing job of taking avoiding action.

Marc was a hero today and proved, imo, that he is still the best rider in the world. He was on the limit the entire race, making up time in the braking zones because the Honda cannot compete in a straight line. The team gave him mapping instructions during the race so the Honda might have consumption problems too?

Bezzechi rode a nearly flawless race—the mugging of Marquez being the only blemish I could see. Marco is shaping up to be another rider who can never be discounted for a win, though it seems he can not be relied upon either, as his results are somewhat inconsistent. Pramac team must be over the moon with their double podium.

Jack took a gamble but it didn’t pay off, and he eventually lost it all, while his teammate got some weird penalty for taking a shortcut? I didn’t see it, maybe I’ll find the replay somewhere. As the two KTM riders struggled, Fernandez carried the flag for the KTM/GasGas consort with an unexpected 4th place.

Big picture the race was exciting and full of intrigue. The championship picture has been reshaped again by Bagnaia’s misfortune and mistakes. However, I do hope that this era of bumper bikes can be diffused sooner rather than later without significant damage to the spectacle and without too much resistance from the manufacturers.

Mrpurple · May 14, 2023

As someone said, that Honda will never be close to a championship...MMs crash was as predictable as rain on a GD Sunday morning.

All those Duke concessions has made it the Duke Cup for the foreseeable future.

michaelm · May 14, 2023

MichaelBolton said:
Marini: ‘Really angry’ with Stewards | Marc Marquez: ‘Only I deserved penalty’

It was hoped that the attendance of the FIM Stewards in the MotoGP riders Safety Commission meeting at Le Mans would calm the penalty controversy and provide clarity for the future.

www.crash.net

Getting tired of moaning and soft Italians. Maybe a VR46 academy thing. Trying to work the refs?

mylexicon said:
Crazy opening laps to the 1000th Grand Prix. Sad for Mav. He had had pace, and the hard front tire would have gone the distance. Not sure if he could have beaten Bezzechi, but he could have tasted champagne, imo. The clash with Pecco was a racing incident, but one that Pecco could easily have avoided. He’s become accustomed to riding on the outside of his fellow Ducati riders, knowing they cannot knock him out and that their bikes will perform somewhat identically to his. Going around the outside on an Aprilia rider at a right-left S curve is not a high percentage move, unless you’re evaluating the chance of having a race ending clash. No one is required to back off, but that situation has traditionally been a no-brainer.

Glad Marini and A Marquez are both in one piece. That was one of the few instances when saving a crash was much worse than letting the bike go. Riders behind them did an amazing job of taking avoiding action.

Marc was a hero today and proved, imo, that he is still the best rider in the world. He was on the limit the entire race, making up time in the braking zones because the Honda cannot compete in a straight line. The team gave him mapping instructions during the race so the Honda might have consumption problems too?

Bezzechi rode a nearly flawless race—the mugging of Marquez being the only blemish I could see. Marco is shaping up to be another rider who can never be discounted for a win, though it seems he can not be relied upon either, as his results are somewhat inconsistent. Pramac team must be over the moon with their double podium.

Jack took a gamble but it didn’t pay off, and he eventually lost it all, while his teammate got some weird penalty for taking a shortcut? I didn’t see it, maybe I’ll find the replay somewhere. As the two KTM riders struggled, Fernandez carried the flag for the KTM/GasGas consort with an unexpected 4th place.

Big picture the race was exciting and full of intrigue. The championship picture has been reshaped again by Bagnaia’s misfortune and mistakes. However, I do hope that this era of bumper bikes can be diffused sooner rather than later without significant damage to the spectacle and without too much resistance from the manufacturers.

Well said and I agree with all of this. Binder had a semi-lose trying to pass Miller, cut a corner saving it, and was deemed to have gained an advantage by doing so. As has been said he should have gone for a bigger advantage if he was going to get the long lap penalty anyway. I really think Jack should have let him go if his tyre was shot as seemed to be the case. Binder may be a real threat for the title, I think he is better than Bagnaia who continues to make poor decisions as you say.

Exactly my thoughts about MM, admitting bias as a latter day fan, some of these young guys including Bezzecchi are fast, but MM would still be problematic for the field imo on a different bike, although not on a Yamaha.

The Marini crash was terrifying, I gather the Simoncelli tragedy which I have still managed to avoid ever seeing was a result of him almost saving it .

michaelm · May 14, 2023

II actually quoted Marinii accidentally, in my previous post, although I had been thinking but had decided not to say that like Aleix Espargaro his criticism of MM’s riding was closely followed by a big crash of his own. His crash was too close to tragic to impute irony etc however.

Keshav · May 14, 2023

MdubSTYLIE said:
Bindaaah was absolutely hosed by being given a long crap penalty. He did the right thing and let off losing position and time. Best thing he could have done in this situation if he knew a long lap was coming was to just floor it. He was punished for doing the right thing.

French MotoGp - brought to you today by Androlone and Testosterone.

Bern1 · May 14, 2023

Well, a day after I type that I am just about done watching this circus, I just finished watching this Le Mans race and I must say it was quite riveting.

Bern1 · May 14, 2023

MdubSTYLIE said:
A. Marq should be punished for being on the race line when little rossi bashed him. How dare he not stop move over and let Lucka through.

Intrigue aside, both were lucky, that could have been disaster.

michaelm said:
Well said and I agree with all of this. Binder had a semi-lose trying to pass Miller, cut a corner saving it, and was deemed to have gained an advantage by doing so. As has been said he should have gone for a bigger advantage if he was going to get the long lap penalty anyway. I really think Jack should have let him go if his tyre was shot as seemed to be the case. Binder may be a real threat for the title, I think he is better than Bagnaia who continues to make poor decisions as you say.

Exactly my thoughts about MM, admitting bias as a latter day fan, some of these young guys including Bezzecchi are fast, but MM would still be problematic for the field imo on a different bike, although not on a Yamaha.

The Marini crash was terrifying, I gather the Simoncelli tragedy which I have still managed to avoid ever seeing was a result of him almost saving it .

It’s true, he actually did save it.

I did think it was bad on the announcer’s part to start talking about MM finishing the race before he did. Sho’ nuff he stayed true to form.

All in all a great race, as long as the stewards don’t don’t apply their usual ........ hindsight penalties.

Also, I agree that was 100% Pecco’s fault. Mav had passed him. Some of these newer guys are still at the stage of thinking in the back of their mind that it’s a video game and nothing bad will happen if I try this. Yeah, sure.

Keshav · May 14, 2023

evo9 said:
Vey good points made and I agree. This is the reasons why I've not renewed my subscription, I don't even watch it on TV either! I just read the various websites, only a matter of time before I completely disengaged with the sport. The single tire & spec ECU was the start of irritation for me. Then all this areo and shape shift gadgets really drives the nail in.

Some points of interest to point out. The fact that Honda have an aviation division, and is not taking advantage there in aero development is telling. Using a 3rd party to develop the frame is also telling instead of investing within to improve. We should also keep an eye on Yamaha. They too are using a 3rd party for their engines performance instead of investing within to improve. Lets see if they increase back to 4 bikes. If they are both passing off the expense to a 3rd party, something is up. I mean they are exposing some of their proprietary technology to these 3rd party. One can only assume the Japanese may be planning a retreat if, useless tech they cant sell don't go away.

What I speculate, is that Honda had for too many years lived in denial, fueled by the successes they have enjoyed while employing riders, like Doohan, Spencer, Stoner and Marquez. They have been for years telling themselves they are better than they really are. They have lost the capacity for innovative thinking. What they need is a new guy to come in and shake them up. It happened at Ducati. It can happen at Honda. If they can break with tradition and allow outside people to work with them.

Mrpurple · May 14, 2023

Seeing how hard Marc fought today, I think he should coast the rest of the way and try for a Duke ride.

How many crashes does he have left...

Bern1 · May 14, 2023

Mrpurple said:
Seeing how hard Marc fought today, I think he should coast the rest of the way and try for a Duke ride.

How many crashes does he have left...

He is never going to change. He will keep crashing.

They will all be on Ducs soon, it’s turned into a spec class.

Bern1 · May 14, 2023

I’ll add that at least KTM are making it interesting.

It’s like the Japanese factories have packed it in.

Camera shots of the pit boxes of both Honda and Yamaha show all Caucasian faces. Was it always like that? My memory is hazy.

Mrpurple · May 14, 2023

Aprilla too...they just need a superstar to get there. Honda and Yamaha to follow Suzuki and Kawasaki out the door...

michaelm · May 14, 2023

Keshav said:
What I speculate, is that Honda had for too many years lived in denial, fueled by the successes they have enjoyed while employing riders, like Doohan, Spencer, Stoner and Marquez. They have been for years telling themselves they are better than they really are. They have lost the capacity for innovative thinking. What they need is a new guy to come in and shake them up. It happened at Ducati. It can happen at Honda. If they can break with tradition and allow outside people to work with them.

Yes, their success has mainly involved all time great riders.

I also think what they need at the moment is a new engine which they are not prepared to invest in for the dying days of the current formula. Nakamoto pretty much foresaw that the control ECU would be problematic for Honda. and iirc threatened to withdraw at one stage. They were relying on their own bespoke software and subsequently the software between MM’s ears to control the engine, a method which doesn’t cut it any more and moreover the thing still appears down on power against the Ducati at least for straight line performance. MM was keeping his Honda up near the front mostly by sheer force of will as far as I could see.

Bern1 · May 14, 2023

michaelm said:
Yes, their success has mainly involved all time great riders.

I also think what they need at the moment is a new engine which they are not prepared to invest in for the dying days of the current formula. Nakamoto pretty much foresaw that the control ECU would be problematic for Honda. and iirc threatened to withdraw at one stage. They were relying on their own bespoke software and subsequently the software between MM’s ears to control the engine, a method which doesn’t cut it any more and moreover the thing still appears down on power against the Ducati at least for straight line performance. MM was keeping his Honda up near the front mostly by sheer force of will as far as I could see.

Both points are true as far as I can tell. Although I think Doohan had the best bike on the grid when he was racing.

michaelm · May 14, 2023

Bern1 said:
Both points are true as far as I can tell. Although I think Doohan had the best bike on the grid when he was racing.

Gardner’s title was pretty much won by him somehow clinging on to the bike while doing things like tankslappers the length of the straight but I think Eddie Lawson and Erv Kanemoto sorted it significantly and then Doohan and Burgess refined it further, although it was still brutal enough to nearly cost Doohan a leg in his earlier days.

The Honda 990 was a great bike from the getgo..

MdubSTYLIE · May 15, 2023

Bern1 said:
Intrigue aside, both were lucky, that could have been disaster.

It’s true, he actually did save it.

I did think it was bad on the announcer’s part to start talking about MM finishing the race before he did. Sho’ nuff he stayed true to form.

All in all a great race, as long as the stewards don’t don’t apply their usual ........ hindsight penalties.

Also, I agree that was 100% Pecco’s fault. Mav had passed him. Some of these newer guys are still at the stage of thinking in the back of their mind that it’s a video game and nothing bad will happen if I try this. Yeah, sure.

Very much so. I couldn't Help but think of Marco Simoncelli when I saw the reply. All the riders did a great job avoiding Alex.

mikesbytes · May 15, 2023

Did you see the sparks coming off Marini's elbow as he saved it. Unfortunately Marini ended up in the way

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2023 SHARK Grand Prix de France

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