2018 Gran Premio d'Italia Oakley

The Burning Barber · May 30, 2018

pyeman said:
I've said it loads but as you're newish i'll say it again..i find it hard to like the guy when he's always waving his arms at everybody on track..he's been doing it since his tech 3 days and it does my head in, if he was a bit more humble i wouldn't mind him as much ,as it is he comes across as an arrogant prick

I have to second this. Every time he does something credible like a podium, some of the .... that comes out of his mouth can be extremely cringe-worthy. I want to like the guy but he makes it so damn hard at times. Can you imagine what we would have to cop if he ever won 10 races back to back like Marquez in 2014?!?!?!

pyeman · May 30, 2018

The Burning Barber said:
I have to second this. Every time he does something credible like a podium, some of the .... that comes out of his mouth can be extremely cringe-worthy. I want to like the guy but he makes it so damn hard at times. Can you imagine what we would have to cop if he ever won 10 races back to back like Marquez in 2014?!?!?!

I've got more chance of getting a ........ off Emma Watson than Cuntslow has of winning 10 races back to back in moto gp..

Jumkie · May 31, 2018

There's a very odd promo vid of Jlo for this race on gp site. I'm sure Libby was impressed though.

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.

Little Walter · May 31, 2018

Jumkie said:
How embarrassing was it that they had so man fallers at the ‘French’ grand prix?

The thing with Michelin is that they are so willing to manipulate the tires that its bound to blow up in their faces from time to time. Maybe GP needs some more tire democracy, that will 'fix' it.

Couldn't have anything to do with track being newly resurfaced, could it? A record number of riders, broke the track record. A huge number of riders got overconfident and fell in Moto 2 as well.

cucoloco · May 31, 2018

darkkakashi said:
1) its all over the media’s in Spain that Márquez is called a traitor as he has officially blocked the access to HRC for Lorenzo, justification is that 2 strong leaders in the same Team is not good for the bike developments

Source https://www.diariogol.com/motor/mar...-2019-o-pobre-chaval-que-pena_558131_102.html
Cheers

Based on the article it was VR that said that Marquez is a traitor and that he was the reason for not letting JL into Honda. That dude just doesn't learn. How many times are you trying to get under MM skin to find out he will .... with you so hard you will not be able to sit for weeks? Every time he does this MM has something up hi sleeves. With 50 pts advantage I would be tempted to play with Rossi again so that he can have his hissy fit and on top of that on his home grand prix. I hope he doesn't do it because I want him to win in Italy.

And "its all over the media’s in Spain" is also incorrect, but nice try.

RCV600RR · May 31, 2018

Little Walter said:
Couldn't have anything to do with track being newly resurfaced, could it? A record number of riders, broke the track record. A huge number of riders got overconfident and fell in Moto 2 as well.

That's why, you're right. Very high grip surfaces (and very low grip surfaces) let go more suddenly.

Theo · May 31, 2018

cucoloco said:
Based on the article it was VR that said that Marquez is a traitor and that he was the reason for not letting JL into Honda. That dude just doesn't learn. How many times are you trying to get under MM skin to find out he will .... with you so hard you will not be able to sit for weeks? Every time he does this MM has something up hi sleeves. With 50 pts advantage I would be tempted to play with Rossi again so that he can have his hissy fit and on top of that on his home grand prix. I hope he doesn't do it because I want him to win in Italy.

And "its all over the media’s in Spain" is also incorrect, but nice try.

Yup, Rossi's playing the ..... again.

Jumkie · May 31, 2018

RCV600RR said:
Very high grip surfaces (and very low grip surfaces) let go more suddenly.

This is exactly a characteristic of 'Michelins' my friend! As has been describe by riders, ‘they have grip, until they don't’. To use your words they "let go more suddenly." That is, they have a narrow window of warning, contrasted to the previous control tires. The re-surfacing has its effect, but riders have been crashing out this way since Qatar, and all of last year as well, Le Mans wasn't some anomaly, rather more of the same; common denominator: Michelin tires. (Tire performance in lap records has zero to do with this 'crashing' issue by the way, i know it wasn't ' your point' buddy, but it's an ignorant statement, unsurprisingly.) Michelin's quality control is ......, we are talking about crashing and what causes it outside of rider error.

"And then five laps to the end, when this problem with the front tyre was getting worse, when they overtook me, I could not fight because I was sliding too much." "But when the technician from Michelin in your team says something is wrong, then you can be happy about your race." Zarco

Zarco said of the Michelin tire it was a “technical problem”.

"And usually during the weekend I'm not the kind of rider to complain that we have, for the same tyre [compound], some wrong, some good.” Zarco.

Sound familiar? Other riders have repeated this sentiment, including Rossi BTW. The tires are ...., they were .... at Le Mans too.

Keep in mind RCV, there is a gag order on talking negatively about Michelin's ...... performance and quality control; so the little we get is likely the tip of the shitberg. You may recall Vinalez mentioned this at COTA after a crash, saying "he didn't want to receive an email" about his comments regarding his crash that he blamed on...guess what....Michelin tires.

Keshav · May 31, 2018

I recall even Stoner saying that the Bridgestones at certain rounds were unpredictable and gave no warning. They were a better tire overall, but, that said, riders have had numerous seasons to acclimate to the Michelins, as evidenced by the number of riders, not just one or two, who broke the track record at Le Mans.

RCV600RR · May 31, 2018

Jumkie said:
This is exactly a characteristic of 'Michelins' my friend! As has been describe by riders, ‘they have grip, until they don't’. To use your words they "let go more suddenly." That is, they have a narrow window of warning, contrasted to the previous control tires. The re-surfacing has its effect, but riders have been crashing out this way since Qatar, and all of last year as well, Le Mans wasn't some anomaly, rather more of the same; common denominator: Michelin tires. (Tire performance in lap records has zero to do with this 'crashing' issue by the way, i know it wasn't ' your point' buddy, but it's an ignorant statement, unsurprisingly.) Michelin's quality control is ......, we are talking about crashing and what causes it outside of rider error.

"And then five laps to the end, when this problem with the front tyre was getting worse, when they overtook me, I could not fight because I was sliding too much." "But when the technician from Michelin in your team says something is wrong, then you can be happy about your race." Zarco

Zarco said of the Michelin tire it was a “technical problem”.

"And usually during the weekend I'm not the kind of rider to complain that we have, for the same tyre [compound], some wrong, some good.” Zarco.

Sound familiar? Other riders have repeated this sentiment, including Rossi BTW. The tires are ...., they were .... at Le Mans too.

Keep in mind RCV, there is a gag order on talking negatively about Michelin's ...... performance and quality control; so the little we get is likely the tip of the shitberg. You may recall Vinalez mentioned this at COTA after a crash, saying "he didn't want to receive an email" about his comments regarding his crash that he blamed on...guess what....Michelin tires.

Michelin consistency needs to improve, sure. The Bridgestones were better.

My point was confined to considering why, relatively, there were more crashes here than at other rounds.

Jumkie · May 31, 2018

RCV600RR said:
Michelin consistency needs to improve, sure. The Bridgestones were better.

My point was confined to considering why, relatively, there were more crashes here than at other rounds.

I get it bud, and my point is the resurfacing of the tarmac did not negate Michelin's peculiar and distinctive performance characteristics. Let me put it another way perhaps we can find a common ground. The resurfacing highlighted michelins peculiar performance characteristics in a negative way.

I can't find you the quote but it's buried somewhere. Rossi talked about the peculiar Michelin DNA being as follows, the rear tire offered more grip, the front tire less with a narrow sweet spot. Getting it wrong means you'd be in the gravel. What Rossi said makes sense in what plays out in general at 'all' tracks since the reintroduction of the Michelin control tire, given that more grip in the rear pushes the front and as a result making it more unstable, increasing the riders susceptibility to crashing. Throw in Michelin manufacturing approach of hand making MotoGP tires as an art as opposed to Bridgestone's approach of precision and greater operating range, makes the French tire one that will cause more 'crashes' while breaking lab records. It's asinine logic, again knowing this was not your point, to cite lap records as a corollary to controvert crashing because as Rossi suggests, when you tap the sweat spot you go fast, diverge in the slightest and you're on your ..., ie 'crash'.

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.

povol · May 31, 2018

Jumkie said:
I get it bud, and my point is the resurfacing of the tarmac did not negate Michelin's peculiar and distinctive performance characteristics. Let me put it another way perhaps we can find a common ground. The resurfacing highlighted michelins peculiar performance characteristics in a negative way.

I can't find you the quote but it's buried somewhere. Rossi talked about the peculiar Michelin DNA being as follows, the rear tire offered more grip, the front tire less with a narrow sweet spot. Getting it wrong means you'd be in the gravel. What Rossi said makes sense in what plays out in general at 'all' tracks since the reintroduction of the Michelin control tire, given that more grip in the rear pushes the front and as a result making it more unstable, increasing the riders susceptibility to crashing. Throw in Michelin manufacturing approach of hand making MotoGP tires as an art as opposed to Bridgestone's approach of precision and greater operating range, makes the French tire one that will cause more 'crashes' while breaking lab records. It's asinine logic, again knowing this was not your point, to cite lap records as a corollary to controvert crashing because as Rossi suggests, when you tap the sweat spot you go fast, diverge in the slightest and you're on your ..., ie 'crash'.

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.

I ride what would be considered pretty aggressive and I can tell you for a fact that even Bridgestone street/ race tires like the RS10’s give much better warning than the Michelin’s before letting the front go. After running Michelin’s for decades, I tried the Bridgestones and never looked back. I have not bought Michelin’s in close to 8-9 years.

Keshav · May 31, 2018

povol said:
I ride what would be considered pretty aggressive and I can tell you for a fact that even Bridgestone street/ race tires like the RS10’s give much better warning than the Michelin’s before letting the front go. After running Michelin’s for decades, I tried the Bridgestones and never looked back. I have not bought Michelin’s in close to 8-9 years.

I ye olden days I swore by Michelins. Love the Bridgestones.

Jumkie · May 31, 2018

povol said:
I ride what would be considered pretty aggressive and I can tell you for a fact that even Bridgestone street/ race tires like the RS10’s give much better warning than the Michelin’s before letting the front go. After running Michelin’s for decades, I tried the Bridgestones and never looked back. I have not bought Michelin’s in close to 8-9 years.

Before anybody says to me that a weekend warrior track day local racing enthusiasts like myself has no bearing on Moto GP technology, I accept; however I have had a very similar experience with Michelin vs. Bridgestone. If I could describe in short, B-stones are more forgiving to me. Another tire we run here as a rule are British-made Dunlop's. The American-made Dunlop's don't stand up to Southern California tarmac. I don't know why and I couldn't give you a real good technical answer but I think it has to do with the peculiar aggregates in the asphalt, weathering characteristics, and abrasion that we get here.

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.

RCV600RR · May 31, 2018

Jumkie said:
I get it bud, and my point is the resurfacing of the tarmac did not negate Michelin's peculiar and distinctive performance characteristics. Let me put it another way perhaps we can find a common ground. The resurfacing highlighted michelins peculiar performance characteristics in a negative way.

I can't find you the quote but it's buried somewhere. Rossi talked about the peculiar Michelin DNA being as follows, the rear tire offered more grip, the front tire less with a narrow sweet spot. Getting it wrong means you'd be in the gravel. What Rossi said makes sense in what plays out in general at 'all' tracks since the reintroduction of the Michelin control tire, given that more grip in the rear pushes the front and as a result making it more unstable, increasing the riders susceptibility to crashing. Throw in Michelin manufacturing approach of hand making MotoGP tires as an art as opposed to Bridgestone's approach of precision and greater operating range, makes the French tire one that will cause more 'crashes' while breaking lab records. It's asinine logic, again knowing this was not your point, to cite lap records as a corollary to controvert crashing because as Rossi suggests, when you tap the sweat spot you go fast, diverge in the slightest and you're on your ..., ie 'crash'.

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.

I see your point. The Michelins appear not to be as forgiving as the Bridgestones, in general.

MadMax · May 31, 2018

Not to pick a fight, but I don't think it's a matter of 'yes, they are different..'.

They are bad tires.

Not up to the task and poorly made.

They've ruined many races they are so bad.

MadMax · May 31, 2018

As in, if I was as bad at my job as Michelins are at their job I would be fired.

RCV600RR · May 31, 2018

MadMax said:
Not to pick a fight, but I don't think it's a matter of 'yes, they are different..'.

They are bad tires.

Not up to the task and poorly made.

They've ruined many races they are so bad.

I may not have been paying enough attention, but I wouldn't go that far. They break lap records consistently. I think they have some QC problems, and the front isn't as good as the Bridgestone front, but the rear is universally praised as better than the Bridgestone rear.

synn · May 31, 2018

As a few articles pointed out, Bridgestone made their tyres in Japan and shipped out for the races, so for logistical reasons they couldn’t do so many variants based on each individual track. They therefore had a wider window of performance.

The Michelins are of course made in France, which means that they can be transported by road to most tracks with a short turnaround time. That means a higher degree of fine tuning, narrower window of performance. When it works, it works great, but when the conditions are a bit weird (Like in Le Mans, where it was sunny, yet cold), it can backfire.

Don’t forget, there were plenty of crashes on Dunlops in Le Mans too. So it wasn’t just a Michelin thing.

As for street use, I currently have Michelins. But next season, I am switching to Pirellis.

Jumkie · May 31, 2018

RCV600RR said:
I may not have been paying enough attention, but I wouldn't go that far. They break lap records consistently. I think they have some QC problems, and the front isn't as good as the Bridgestone front, but the rear is universally praised as better than the Bridgestone rear.

RC, how much of these lap records might we contribute to the progression of the GP bike? ( improved power delivery, Aero package, chassis and swingarm development, etc.)

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.

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2018 Gran Premio d'Italia Oakley

The Burning Barber

pyeman

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Little Walter

cucoloco

RCV600RR

Theo

Jumkie

Keshav

RCV600RR

Jumkie

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Keshav

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