2017 Gran Premio Motul de la Comunitat Valenciana

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I'll take it back and stand corrected, Dovi said he was on the limit, I believe him. The crash certainly bore that out.
Lorenzo said he was trying to get them both closer, and that he would have given Dovi the position if they got within striking distance, I believe him too.

Obviously I am not qualified to judge these performances, sure like watching them though!
 
Lorenzo should have let Dovi through. It was just the “proper” thing to do. Having said that, to say it’s payback for MM in 2015 is non sense. For Dovi to win the race and the championship if he had passed Lorenzo, Zarco, Pedrosa and MM would have to crash because Dovi just didn’t have the pace to pass those 3 guys. What were the odds of those 3 guys crashing? Gotta love these armchair quarterbacks playing the what-ifs game.
 
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The final decision is always with the riders on the track. Team messages have to be read as suggestions (even strong and reiterated suggestions) more than "orders": Lorenzo knew better and behaved accordingly, Dovi knew better and after the race acknowledged that having Lorenzo in front was actually helping him. This "final showdown" was just media hype: there was no real way Marc and Honda could lose this. Pedrosa is the proof.
Do you think Dovi is possibly saying this to the media for the sake of team harmony?
 
I give... in what way is Pedrosa the proof of anything???

Pedrosa is the proof that Dovi didn't have much chance, because there was another very fast Honda ready to fight for the win, even if Marc crashed out.
 
Do you think Dovi is possibly saying this to the media for the sake of team harmony?

We do a lot of second guessing here on both sides of many arguments.

The possibility perhaps does exist that both riders are telling the truth. It doesn't make much sense otherwise, why would Lorenzo race Dovi aggressively for 4th?, and the riders out on the track on a day with no weather issues are more than likely better judges of the tactical situation than the pit crew. If Lorenzo just raced as he did because he is a prick and a prima donna I can't see that anything would help team harmony going forward. I think Dovi being already resigned to his title chances being gone is a reasonable supposition as well.
 
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Do you think Dovi is possibly saying this to the media for the sake of team harmony?

No, Dovi is always honest in his statements. The rare times he's pissed (as with Iannone in the past) he never hides it.
Anyway, in this case everthing was evident enough. Lorenzo was towing him. He had been faster than him the whole weekend. Map 8 was just a bit of wishful thinking from the garage.
 
All you whining about Jorge, he was laying back trying to drag Dovi into contention. When he upped the pace to join the leaders, Dovi could not follow. Congrats to Marc on the championship but he threw away an easy win. He let Zarco’s reputation push him into a stupid mistake . Glad Dani won and took 4 th from Rossi. Been busy this afternoon getting ready to have knee replacement surgery in the morning, did Rossi retire.?
 
That doesn’t prove ...., Pedrosa is always a threat at Valencia even in the worst of times

So let's slightly rephrase it and say that Pedrosa is the proof that Dovi didn't have much chance, because he indeed was there and he's always a threat at Valencia, even in the worst of times. Happy now? :)
 
All you whining about Jorge, he was laying back trying to drag Dovi into contention. When he upped the pace to join the leaders, Dovi could not follow. Congrats to Marc on the championship but he threw away an easy win. He let Zarco’s reputation push him into a stupid mistake . Glad Dani won and took 4 th from Rossi. Been busy this afternoon getting ready to have knee replacement surgery in the morning, did Rossi retire.?

Thanks. I was waiting for your take, having great faith in your race analyses.

Good luck with the knee surgery.
 
Lorenzo’s only play was to make his usual fast start and get to the front then control the race. He failed miserably just like he did during qualy when he was motioning for Pirro to follow him (laughably into the gravel). If he was up Pedro’s ass fighting I would say he was doing his job, but sitting there 1 second off in 4th was totally useless to Ducati. I don’t think it was his intention but I do see him as a stubborn prick who simply needed to get the .... out of the way and let Dovi run his own race. Most likely it would have made no difference since I think they were obviously both on the limit the whole time just trying to keep up with the Honda’s but now we will never really know which is annoying in the least. I think Dovi had just a slightly better pace but not enough to make a pass on the notoriously tight Valencia circuit.

Marquez has practiced crashing 27 times this year so if anyone is going to save it he was. Still he admitted he lost concentration and missed his braking point. I gotta laugh at migs, yes of course he woulda trounced Stoner in 07 saving the notoriously fickle Duc front on his knee all while taming the aggressive screamer engine. He coulda won every race by 10 seconds.

Rossi is in talks with Yamaha management. That’s amusing, we have a problem Houston, the alloy chassis isn’t working. Maybe they need to change to a steel trellis frame. In reality what all this shows is that Barros played the biggest role in developing the 04 Yamaha, Edwards kept the thing on the right path, Lorenzo took over from 08. 2017 the bike was all Rossi’s, just like the 11/12 Duc. Greatest development rider of all time.
 
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All you whining about Jorge, he was laying back trying to drag Dovi into contention. When he upped the pace to join the leaders, Dovi could not follow. Congrats to Marc on the championship but he threw away an easy win. He let Zarco’s reputation push him into a stupid mistake . Glad Dani won and took 4 th from Rossi. Been busy this afternoon getting ready to have knee replacement surgery in the morning, did Rossi retire.?

Spot on. Could see on TV that Lorenzo was closing up to Pedrosa and the commentators were still espousing the theory of how Lorenzo is not letting Dovi go. So much for pushing down a narrative:mad:

This is the difference between the Pedrosa, JL & Dovi all throughout the race. The lap on which JL crashed he was under two tenths of a second to Pedrosa. Lorenzo took out 4 tenths of a second out of Pedrosa on that lap and DOvi was unable to follow!

Source http://resources.motogp.com/files/results/2017/VAL/MotoGP/RAC/analysisbylap.pdf?v1_baa6a143

Lap 1
Ped to JL 0.214
JL to Dovi 0.11
Lap 2
Ped to JL 0.286
JL to Dovi 0.407
Lap 3
Ped to JL 0.404
JL to Dovi 0.243
Lap 4
Ped to JL 0.3
JL to Dovi 0.175
Lap 5
Ped to JL 0.494
JL to Dovi 0.332
Lap 6
Ped to JL 0.45
JL to Dovi 0.286
Lap 7
Ped to JL 0.432
JL to Dovi 0.226
Lap 8
Ped to JL 0.314
JL to Dovi 0.25
Lap 9
Ped to JL 0.375
JL to Dovi 0.26
Lap 10
Ped to JL 0.434
JL to Dovi 0.308
Lap 11
Ped to JL 0.667
JL to Dovi 0.264
Lap 12
Ped to JL 0.8
JL to Dovi 0.272
Lap 13
Ped to JL 0.72
JL to Dovi 0.426
Lap 14
Ped to JL 0.65
JL to Dovi 0.411
Lap 15
Ped to JL 0.829
JL to Dovi 0.431
Lap 16
Ped to JL 1.017
JL to Dovi 0.306
Lap 17
Ped to JL 1.037
JL to Dovi 0.286
Lap 18
Ped to JL 1.01
JL to Dovi 0.265
Lap 19
Ped to JL 0.971
JL to Dovi 0.288
Lap 20
Ped to JL 0.834
JL to Dovi 0.363
Lap 21
Ped to JL 0.672
JL to Dovi 0.475
Lap 22
Ped to JL 0.729
JL to Dovi 0.492
Lap 23
Ped to JL 0.515
JL to Dovi 0.667
Lap 24
Ped to JL 0.195
JL to Dovi 1.275
 
Pedrosa is the proof that Dovi didn't have much chance, because there was another very fast Honda ready to fight for the win, even if Marc crashed out.

If we're speculating, then even if MM had not made that outrageous save and in fact crashed, it would have been the right thing to do (from the team perspective) to let Dovi pass to insure he had sufficient points to win the championship. Dovi was under enormous pressure and didn't need to be fighting his teammate for that one extra position.
 
If we're speculating, then even if MM had not made that outrageous save and in fact crashed, it would have been the right thing to do (from the team perspective) to let Dovi pass to insure he had sufficient points to win the championship. Dovi was under enormous pressure and didn't need to be fighting his teammate for that one extra position.

If JL was fighting him for 4th position with the championship in play then that was indefensible. The question is whether he was.
 
My 2 cents...

As we all know Valencia is a ....... go-kart track and notoriously hard to pass. Even more so when its your talented teammate on identical machinery. I do believe Dovi when he says he was on the limit. But... being on the limit riding behind is a very different scenario than being on the limit with some clear track ahead of you.

Jlo shouda given Dovi the chance to run his own race at the first opportunity.

.....
 
All you whining about Jorge, he was laying back trying to drag Dovi into contention. When he upped the pace to join the leaders, Dovi could not follow. Congrats to Marc on the championship but he threw away an easy win. He let Zarco’s reputation push him into a stupid mistake . Glad Dani won and took 4 th from Rossi. Been busy this afternoon getting ready to have knee replacement surgery in the morning, did Rossi retire.?

Good luck with that surgery Pov
 
My 2 cents...

As we all know Valencia is a ....... go-kart track and notoriously hard to pass. Even more so when its your talented teammate on identical machinery. I do believe Dovi when he says he was on the limit. But... being on the limit riding behind is a very different scenario than being on the limit with some clear track ahead of you.

Jlo shouda given Dovi the chance to run his own race at the first opportunity.

.....

It really is a poor choice of tracks given that it's the final round
 
Lorenzo’s only play was to make his usual fast start and get to the front then control the race. He failed miserably just like he did during qualy when he was motioning for Pirro to follow him (laughably into the gravel). If he was up Pedro’s ass fighting I would say he was doing his job, but sitting there 1 second off in 4th was totally useless to Ducati. I don’t think it was his intention but I do see him as a stubborn prick who simply needed to get the .... out of the way and let Dovi run his own race. Most likely it would have made no difference since I think they were obviously both on the limit the whole time just trying to keep up with the Honda’s but now we will never really know which is annoying in the least. I think Dovi had just a slightly better pace but not enough to make a pass on the notoriously tight Valencia circuit.

Marquez has practiced crashing 27 times this year so if anyone is going to save it he was. Still he admitted he lost concentration and missed his braking point. I gotta laugh at migs, yes of course he woulda trounced Stoner in 07 saving the notoriously fickle Duc front on his knee all while taming the aggressive screamer engine. He coulda won every race by 10 seconds.

Rossi is in talks with Yamaha management. That’s amusing, we have a problem Houston, the alloy chassis isn’t working. Maybe they need to change to a steel trellis frame. In reality what all this shows is that Barros played the biggest role in developing the 04 Yamaha, Edwards kept the thing on the right path, Lorenzo took over from 08. 2017 the bike was all Rossi’s, just like the 11/12 Duc. Greatest development rider of all time.

How exactly did Rossi screw up the 2017 M1?
 
My 2 cents...

As we all know Valencia is a ....... go-kart track and notoriously hard to pass. Even more so when its your talented teammate on identical machinery. I do believe Dovi when he says he was on the limit. But... being on the limit riding behind is a very different scenario than being on the limit with some clear track ahead of you.

Jlo shouda given Dovi the chance to run his own race at the first opportunity.

.....
My 2 cents too....
You get repeated messages from your team telling you to let your team mate behind you who's still in with a shot at the title through,you move over, cos they're paying your massive wages, and at least let the guy have a chance of catching Marquez and trying to unsettle him, saying that i think we could all see that Dovi didn't have the pace anyway and wasn't going to get to the front,guess everyone can see that for the second race running Lorenzo isn't one for team orders, or perhaps he thought mapping 8 meant just do what the .... you like?...
 
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