Round 14: 2016 Gran Premio Movistar de Aragón: MotorLand Aragón

Gaz said:

https://twitter.com/eugenelaverty/status/780758734448492544


Following the cycling initiative, I propose a 1 metre overtaking law for Petrucci. What ya reckon @Reddingpower?

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Failing that, don a set of Valentino's leathers, overtake, and watch him dismount and park it against the armco.

Arrabbiata1 said:

Can we transfer this image to the garbage thread about the caveman being more deserving than Scotty?

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Did I get it in the right thread for you Arrib?

Arrabbiata1 said:

Failing that, don a set of Valentino's leathers, overtake, and watch him dismount and park it against the armco.

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Or just add a Yellow +1 to his race number ?

Former MotoGP champion Nicky Hayden admits he underestimated the scale of the challenge during his one-off return in last weekend's Aragon race, when he stood in for an injured Jack Miller.

Riding Miller's Marc VDS Honda machine, Hayden - who quit the series to move to World Superbikes last year - claimed a single point with a 15th place finish at Motorland after languishing towards the bottom of the timesheets most of the weekend.

Having never tried the new generation of Michelin MotoGP tyres introduced for this season, the American admitted getting up to speed with the French rubber was the most challenging aspect of the weekend.

"The race I would say was the best session I had all weekend," said Hayden after the race.

"I started too far behind on Friday to get the feeling with these tyres, and the bike, but we found a good direction last night [Saturday], the bike felt better this morning [in warm-up].

"For the race we didn’t touch anything. I got in there, I did a good start and I was able to race with some guys like [Danilo] Petrucci, [Yonny] Hernandez, the bike was working pretty good.

"The group in front of me with [Michele] Pirro I was hoping to come out on top of, but I went back and forth with Barbera a little bit, lost some time.

"In the end I got one point, of course I hoped I could do something better but I guess I underestimated how hard it was going to be to get up to speed with these tyres, particularly the front.

"I didn’t feel good with them, and they felt hard, so I went slow and it made the problem worse. The more confident you are, the faster they go and the better they work.

"And I didn’t really get that feeling until [Saturday] afternoon, so it’s a little frustrating. In the end it wasn’t a disaster, I got to race with [some] guys and have some fun battles."

Asked whether he felt any more cameo appearances in MotoGP would be possible, Hayden replied: "I don’t know, now I go back to World Superbike next year, and I hope next year I’m closer to the front.

"Honda Europe wanted me to come do it [replace Miller], so who knows? It’s another year in the record books of scoring a point in MotoGP, never say never. For now, this is Jack's bike, his team. It was just a one-off."

Hayden admits: "I underestimated how hard it would be"

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Hope we get to see Nicky ride again when the tires are perhaps better.

Arrabbiata1 said:

Failing that, don a set of Valentino's leathers, overtake, and watch him dismount and park it against the armco.

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I used to like Petrucci, and was very pleased he got a break with Pramac last season and especially pleased at Silverstone. But after Valencia 2015 and his now Kamikaze riding style, I strongly dislike the bloke.

well happy , my 2 photos made it onto the movistar wall at Aragon!!

photo 1 with Jorge in Barcelona! photo 2, outside Luis salom's garage in Austin :/

#22 said:

I used to like Petrucci, and was very pleased he got a break with Pramac last season and especially pleased at Silverstone. But after Valencia 2015 and his now Kamikaze riding style, I strongly dislike the bloke.

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I used to like Petrucci too. I'm holding judgement at the moment

BUT - who let the guy race with concussion??!

Furiosa said:

I used to like Petrucci too. I'm holding judgement at the moment

BUT - who let the guy race with concussion??!

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Dr Costa??

AJV80 said:

Dr Costa??

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hehe well yea.

It just didn't seem right... I know they still race with injuries and broken bones, but a concussion seems a bit dodgy!

Perhaps he was all mended in the head by race day and it was a short lived concussion that meant he didn't know where he was and couldn't remember 4 of the 6 laps he did the day before. These guys are super tough - maybe they are super healers too.

Furiosa said:

hehe well yea.

It just didn't seem right... I know they still race with injuries and broken bones, but a concussion seems a bit dodgy!

Perhaps he was all mended in the head by race day and it was a short lived concussion that meant he didn't know where he was and couldn't remember 4 of the 6 laps he did the day before. These guys are super tough - maybe they are super healers too.

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I think Dr Costa has retired actually but the riders tend to get a special medical condition reports compared to mere mortals. I'm sure he and his team all wanted him to race, he had no physical injuries.

They let Lorenzo race with a broken collarbone operated on only the day before.

AJV80 said:

I think Dr Costa has retired actually but the riders tend to get a special medical condition reports compared to mere mortals. I'm sure he and his team all wanted him to race, he had no physical injuries.

They let Lorenzo race with a broken collarbone operated on only the day before.

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When it comes to broken bones like some bones in legs arms, collarbones...they can be fixed with little metal. If the parts of bones stay together as you move you are able to race with some (or a lot of) painkillers. At yout own risk of course.

Concussion is a whole different story. Headaches and having hard time staying focused for a longer period of time. The case with Petrucci was quite clear to me, he should not be racing.

In Brno Tom Lüthi suffered a concussion in that nasty crash in QP. He had 2 weeks to heal and he won the next race. After, in an inteview he stated the 2 weeks were terrible. He was not able to train due to headaches.

It hits everyone in a different way, but not of them are safe for sports involving other people. Sidney Crosby (NHL) lost almost two seasons with something they initialy called "mild concussion".

What I'm trying to say is that for some years now the rule in practically every sport is, when it comes to head contact, you do a 15 minute "concussion check". If an athlete shows signs or symptoms, he has to be sent off for further tests and observation.

This was not done with Petrucci. Who would be blamed if something worse had happened?

Finish line said:

When it comes to broken bones like some bones in legs arms, collarbones...they can be fixed with little metal. If the parts of bones stay together as you move you are able to race with some (or a lot of) painkillers. At yout own risk of course.

Concussion is a whole different story. Headaches and having hard time staying focused for a longer period of time. The case with Petrucci was quite clear to me, he should not be racing.

In Brno Tom Lüthi suffered a concussion in that nasty crash in QP. He had 2 weeks to heal and he won the next race. After, in an inteview he stated the 2 weeks were terrible. He was not able to train due to headaches.

It hits everyone in a different way, but not of them are safe for sports involving other people. Sidney Crosby (NHL) lost almost two seasons with something they initialy called "mild concussion".

What I'm trying to say is that for some years now the rule in practically every sport is, when it comes to head contact, you do a 15 minute "concussion check". If an athlete shows signs or symptoms, he has to be sent off for further tests and observation.

This was not done with Petrucci. Who would be blamed if something worse had happened?

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I agree with you, anything that detracts from your focus in a high speed motorsport is dangerous. The rider naturally will always want to ride if he is able, its in their DNA they believe they are superhuman and many of them are. The team also will want him to ride (whether they say it or not), but I'm sure would support the riders decision if he didn't want to ride.

I think the doctors that clear him for racing is in the toughest position of the lot, he is caught between a rock and a hard place. He doesn't want to spoil the series from keeping riders from doing their jobs and upset the status quo of the sport. Kevin Schwartz explained there was a normal medical and a MotoGP type medical, which would usually have a diagnosis based on the riders wishes and belief in their ability to ride, to an extent of course depending on the injury. I doubt they would let a rider compete if he was injured and completly blinded in one eye. Much as some of he riders would probably try and convince the doctor that they think they can still ride and they don't need that eye and use the other one most of the time anyway, I doubt any doctors would be that reckless.

if the doctor always exercises cautious like a real world doctor would and is reluctant to let any riders with injuries ride from fear of and accident, further injury or heaven forbid a fatality and the legal recourse that may follow. I'm sure a lot more riders would be told to sit out races, and a lot more teams would be complaining, all trying to get a second doctor to give another fresh diagnosis. If this happened too much I don't think the doctor would stay in the role all that long to be honest, could be wrong and missing something though.

I certainly don't envy the doctors positions, If the doctor clears him and Petrucci had a serious accident they would point the finger at the doctor. If Petrucci believes he is superman like many riders do and is adamant that he is fine and he can ride and passes all the tests and doesn't get cleared by the doctor. Because the doctor who is probably making the right call from a medical perspective is seen to be 'covering his ass'. The finger also gets pointed at the doctor. Maybe the first option of letting a rider ride results in the doctor getting the finger pointed at him less, and less conflict maybe??

How do the medical clearance rules work, if the track doctor doesn't clear someone for riding can the rider then go to another doctor for a second consultation for his condition, or is that not allowed? It shouldn't be, that would put the track doctors in an even worse position.

Furiosa said:

hehe well yea.

It just didn't seem right... I know they still race with injuries and broken bones, but a concussion seems a bit dodgy!

Perhaps he was all mended in the head by race day and it was a short lived concussion that meant he didn't know where he was and couldn't remember 4 of the 6 laps he did the day before. These guys are super tough - maybe they are super healers too.

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Sure, my view as well, but perhaps the tests were wrong and he was still concussed, since if he had finagled them it doesn't seem smart to have admitted to not having remembered 4 of 6 laps he rode.

AJV80 said:

I agree with you 100%, anything that detracts from your focus in a high speed motorsport is dangerous. The rider naturally will always want to ride if he is able, its in their DNA they believe they are superhuman and many of them are. The team also will want him to ride (whether they say it or not), but I'm sure would support the riders decision if he didn't want to ride.

I think the doctors that clear him for racing is in the toughest position of the lot, he is caught between a rock and a hard place. He doesn't want to spoil the series from keeping riders from doing their jobs and upset the status quo of the sport. Kevin Schwartz explained there was a normal medical and a MotoGP type medical, which would usually have a diagnosis based on the riders wishes and belief in their ability to ride, to an extent of course depending on the injury. I doubt they would let a rider compete if he was injured and completly blinded in one eye. Much as some of he riders would probably try and convince the doctor that they think they can still ride and they don't need that eye and use the other one most of the time anyway, I doubt the doctors would be that reckless.

if the doctor always exercises cautious like a real world doctor would and is reluctant to let any riders with injuries ride from fear of legal recourse. I'm sure a lot more riders would be told to sit out races, and a lot more teams would be complaining, all trying to get a second doctor to give another fresh diagnosis. If this happened too much I don't think the doctor would stay in the role all that long to be honest, could be wrong and missing something though.

I certainly don't envy the doctors positions, If the doctor clears him and Petrucci had a serious accident they would point the finger at the doctor. If Petrucci believes he is superman like many riders do and is adamant that he is fine and he can ride and passes all the tests and doesn't get cleared by the doctor. Because the doctor who is probably making the right call from a medical perspective is seen to be 'covering his ass'.

How do the medical clearance rules work, if the track doctor doesn't clear a someone for riding can thee rider then go to another doctor for a second consultation of his condition or is that not allowed? It shouldn't be, that would put the track doctors in an even worse position.

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Motogp riders or not, an injury is still an injury. I agree, body of an athlete is a Lamborghini compared to regular human. Miller was cleared ones this year and the team decided he will not be racing. He pulled out of Misano too. By himself. Dani (who turs 31 today ) took his time after last years surgery.
Being an athlete is not just competing. It is also knowing and listening to your body. Knowing how far you can take it and when it's enough.
If you don't know how to do that, you are just a dumb jock. Doctors are there to give you an advice/opinion when it comes to idk...broken legs like with Miller, collarbone with Jorge, broken leg and dislocated shoulder with Marc...(in some cases it is obligatory, like with Iannone and Lowes last week) they would talk to you and tell you, you can go but at your own risk. Maybe nothing will happen but if you are involved in an accident, you can make it (a lot) worse. Your choice. But if the guy is physically ok but he asks you: "where am I, how did I get here"....well...

Eatherway, what happened was irresponsible by doctors and Petrucci.

When Lorenzo broke his collar bone and had it operated on, returned to the paddock, dosed up on pain killers and then raced the bike and finished 5th.

I thought it was one of the best 'true grit' moments I had ever witnessed in sport. Seeing how emotional he was when he pulled into the pits and got off the bike, I remember the hairs on the back of my neck and arms standing up. It was pretty special and not something you see a lot anymore in sport unfortunatley. In comparison Novak Djokovic gets a blister on his toe and almost has to pull out of the US Open.

But what if it didn't end so well, what if he had an accident. One that resulted in a serious injury to himself or another rider, or worse a fatality. How could anyone justify the doctor clearing him for riding. He was on pain killers, one could argue clouding his judgement. He was also in extreme pain, that would have certainly detracted from his focus.

If it all went pear shaped, how would the doctor that cleared him for racing look standing before a judge and jury after someone had died from a direct or indirect result of him allowing an unfit person to ride a motorcycle at a racetrack.

How would he convince the jury or judge that his judgement to allow this person to race a high speed motorcycle was correct, how would it sound. A person who had broken his collar bone in a high speed motorcycle accident, undergone surgery under anaesthetic to put metal plates and screws into his collarbone. Then returned to the racetrack with his arm in a sling, dosed himself up on pain killers and hopped back on the motorcycle to compete in the race less than 24 hrs after surgery, was involved in an accident and somebody is now dead.

AJV80 said:

When Lorenzo broke his collar bone and had it operated on, returned to the paddock, dosed up on pain killers and then raced the bike and finished 5th.

I thought it was one of the best 'true grit' moments I had ever witnessed in sport. Seeing how emotional he was when he pulled into the pits and got off the bike, I remember the hairs on the back of my neck and arms standing up. It was pretty special and not something you see a lot anymore in sport unfortunatley. In comparison Novak Djokovic gets a blister on his toe and almost has to pull out of the US Open.

But what if it didn't end so well, what if he had an accident. One that resulted in a serious injury to himself or another rider, or worse a fatality. How could anyone justify the doctor clearing him for riding. He was on pain killers, one could argue clouding his judgement. He was also in extreme pain, that would have certainly detracted from his focus.

If it all went pear shaped, how would the doctor that cleared him for racing look standing before a judge and jury after someone had died from a direct or indirect result of him allowing an unfit person to ride a motorcycle at a racetrack.

How would he convince the jury or judge that his judgement to allow this person to race a high speed motorcycle was correct, how would it sound. A person who had broken his collar bone in a high speed motorcycle accident, undergone surgery under anaesthetic to put metal plates and screws into his collarbone. Then returned to the racetrack with his arm in a sling, dosed himself up on pain killers and hopped back on the motorcycle to compete in the race less than 24 hrs after surgery, was involved in an accident and somebody is now dead.

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I am considerably happier about Lorenzo's situation of riding in pain rather than what seems likely happened with Petrucci ie riding with his brain not working properly, or impaired in comparison with how his brain normally operates anyway. I am not sure what analgesia Lorenzo had, but I would have similar reservations for similar reasons to systemic narcotic analgesia, but not so much to local anesthetic; if these guys were not allowed to ride in pain they would mostly probably never ride. If you recall Lorenzo had races off when he had problems with concussion in his rookie year in 2008, but rode that year with reputed bilateral ankle fractures.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BK6KYVhjlFy/

Marc Marquez testing at Aragon.

AJV80 said:

When Lorenzo broke his collar bone and had it operated on, returned to the paddock, dosed up on pain killers and then raced the bike and finished 5th.

I thought it was one of the best 'true grit' moments I had ever witnessed in sport. Seeing how emotional he was when he pulled into the pits and got off the bike, I remember the hairs on the back of my neck and arms standing up. It was pretty special and not something you see a lot anymore in sport unfortunatley. In comparison Novak Djokovic gets a blister on his toe and almost has to pull out of the US Open.

But what if it didn't end so well, what if he had an accident. One that resulted in a serious injury to himself or another rider, or worse a fatality. How could anyone justify the doctor clearing him for riding. He was on pain killers, one could argue clouding his judgement. He was also in extreme pain, that would have certainly detracted from his focus.

If it all went pear shaped, how would the doctor that cleared him for racing look standing before a judge and jury after someone had died from a direct or indirect result of him allowing an unfit person to ride a motorcycle at a racetrack.

How would he convince the jury or judge that his judgement to allow this person to race a high speed motorcycle was correct, how would it sound. A person who had broken his collar bone in a high speed motorcycle accident, undergone surgery under anaesthetic to put metal plates and screws into his collarbone. Then returned to the racetrack with his arm in a sling, dosed himself up on pain killers and hopped back on the motorcycle to compete in the race less than 24 hrs after surgery, was involved in an accident and somebody is now dead.

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Don't forget Lorenzo snapped it again at Germany a few races later. Hard ........

It would never go to a judge or court. When you sign on a for a race there is that thing called a disclaimer and in massive letters it states "Motorsport is dangerous" therefore your excepting the risk and consequences.

michaelm said:

I am considerably happier about Lorenzo's situation of riding in pain rather than what seems likely happened with Petrucci ie riding with his brain not working properly, or impaired in comparison with how his brain normally operates anyway. I am not sure what analgesia Lorenzo had, but I would have similar reservations for similar reasons to systemic narcotic analgesia, but not so much to local anesthetic; if these guys were not allowed to ride in pain they would mostly probably never ride. If you recall Lorenzo had races off when he had problems with concussion in his rookie year in 2008, but rode that year with reputed bilateral ankle fractures.

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I agree with you mate, riding with a concussion is different to riding with pain and pain killers and would effect your ability in a much more severe way. But still would have been a 'hard sell' to justify if Lorenzo had of crashed or had an incident, but he didn't and Petrucci did. Thats why he is being scrutinised.

I'm sure Petrucci would have been the one pushing to ride, the doctor didn't force his decision. The doctor is in a tough position, Petrucci should have know better.

The whole '5 races to get a full factory bike in 2017' wouldn't have detracted from his desire to ride either.

Richy56 said:

Don't forget Lorenzo snapped it again at Germany a few races later. Hard ........

It would never go to a judge or court. When you sign on a for a race there is that thing called a disclaimer and in massive letters it states "Motorsport is dangerous" therefore your excepting the risk and consequences.

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Fair point, I was really starting to wonder how a lot of those doctors would sleep some nights otherwise.

AJV80 said:

Fair point, I was really starting to wonder how a lot of those doctors would sleep some nights otherwise.

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