Will Hayden ever win a race for Ducati?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rgvneil @ Nov 11 2008, 02:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It'd be nice to see Nicky on the top step of the podium again but winning outside the States and after a proper race with no dnfs from anyone else. But God help us if he does, this place is already a Nicky worshipping arena.

It is very unlikely for Nicky to win again outside of the states. I think the GP09 is going to be an outstanding bike, but there are 4 other guys with as much or more speed than Nicky. He can win Laguna and I think he has an even better chance in his back yard at Indy. I think this season will determine a lot as to how Nicky is viewed historically. The last few years have been down for Nicky, but his promising results on Michelin to finish his Honda career give hope that he will be battling for podiums next year! He will work hard to shake down the Ducati and I think he is viewing this as the biggest challenge of his career.

Hayden's time in MotoGP is up. No way he could won again. His next win will be in WSBK in max. 2 years time. So, Hayden's troops must be patient and wait for better times.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (#41 @ Nov 12 2008, 01:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hayden's time in MotoGP is up. No way he could won again. His next win will be in WSBK in max. 2 years time. So, Hayden's troops must be patient and wait for better times.
Are you Alberto Puig?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Nov 10 2008, 10:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>All titles are worth the same amount. Grow up, kid.

I don't think this is guy is just some sour-grapes kid in denial. I really believe that Pinky and all his various incarnations are Rossiholics who are constitutionally incapable of being honest. A sort of milder form of the kind of psychotic "Holocaust Deniers" - Flat Earth Proclaimers and those who don't believe people went to the moon in '69 - it's a form of genuine clinical paranoia. And it's ....... pointless to argue with irrational people. You might as well stand around on some street corner arguing physics with some homeless lunatic with a garbage sack full of beer cans over his shoulder. Save your breath. You'll never "win". You could chop off his ....... legs and he'd still be fully convinced of his being capable of beating you in a 50 yard dash.

or, you all could start talking about haydens changes at ducati for a change? you know, what the subject of this topic is about?

keep in mind that although people might have different opinions about riders than the mayority of the people on here, they are not necessarily Pinky or CSAWCV etc. there are people out there who think hayden sucks, some of you dont like perdosa and some of you dont like stoner.

BACK ON TOPIC
I think hayden will have a hard time on the duc in 2009. my expectations are higher for him in 2010 thats when I hope to see him to be a real podium contender

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Nov 12 2008, 10:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't think this is guy is just some sour-grapes kid in denial. I really believe that Pinky and all his various incarnations are Rossiholics who are constitutionally incapable of being honest.
Without wanting to buy into the alter ego question the original pinky was pretty definitely an aussie stoner fan who was formerly critical of rossi as well as hayden.

I would be surprised if nicky was consistently as fast as stoner, but I am a casey fan. I expect podiums , and as others have said he is a chance of a win particularly at the american rounds, at phillip island and possibly valencia depending of course on how good the hrc and factory yamaha bikes are next year.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RCV600RR @ Nov 12 2008, 01:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Are you Alberto Puig?

Truth hurts, no? Puig, like me here, just said truth about Hayden's lack of riding skills and his hypocritical behavior at the end of this season after Honda showed him the exit door finally.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Nov 12 2008, 06:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Without wanting to buy into the alter ego question the original pinky was pretty definitely an aussie stoner fan who was formerly critical of rossi as well as hayden.

I would be surprised if nicky was consistently as fast as stoner, but I am a casey fan. I expect podiums , and as others have said he is a chance of a win particularly at the american rounds, at phillip island and possibly valencia depending of course on how good the hrc and factory yamaha bikes are next year.

Not all of them are Pinky - but they're of a "type". I agree that Hayden isn't likely to catch up to Stoner's pace in 2009. I like him and do hope that his inability last year to finish as well as he started will be a thing of the past - when he's on B-Stones. It's be a shame if he turned into the American Ron Haslam. Of course Haslam never won a championship. In the end if Nicky turns out to be a one-trick-pony . . . it was still one hell of trick.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Nov 12 2008, 03:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>In the end if Nicky turns out to be a one-trick-pony . . . it was still one hell of trick.
I have the same view of stoner's championship, and surely rossi being in the field adds to rather than detracts from their respective achievements.

I too like nicky and hope he is back consistently fighting for podiums and wins next year, even more so now he is on a ducati from my personal perspective. Tyre wear doesn't seem to be a big issue for ducati, nor fuel economy which may also have contibuted to nicky's late race slowing on the pneumatic honda. In my view what nicky needs most is a bike with raw power and this at least ducati should be able to offer him.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (#41 @ Nov 13 2008, 02:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Truth hurts, no? Puig, like me here, just said truth about Hayden's lack of riding skills and his hypocritical behavior at the end of this season after Honda showed him the exit door finally.
I wish I had a 'lack of riding skills' if it meant I could beat Mladin to an AMA SBK title as a teenager and win a MotoGP championship. Damn.

Will Hayden ever win a race for Ducati?? simple....... NO.

Sometimes the Champion wins the title with a lot of wins and sometimes the wins are more even across more than a single dominant rider. It is like a very low or very high scoring baseball or football game. You know that it was a very exciting defensive or offensive struggle.

Maybe people only remember Rossi and expect everybody to win like Rossi? He is a very dominant rider, but that is not normal. Remember, he is the only 1 in 30 years to even get close to Angel/Ago numbers, let alone go past. We are lucky to see the races right now, our kids will know him only in stories and recordings. But not everybody can be that dominant all the time, not even Rossi.

In any case, winning a title is a great honor, no matter how many wins you have. In fact, if you think about it, it was an eventful enough season that we are still talking about it years later. Hayden's name remains alive because of the fantastic 2006 season. People must also remember that Hayden lost the title/points lead in Portugal. Rossi then lost it at Valencia. It is too bad because he could have been the only rider to have titles on the 990, but now Hayden also shares that honor with him.

Give respect where it is due. In 5 years of 990s, Rossi took 4 titles and Hayden took 1. That's not bad for either rider.

(FWIW, my desktop wallpaper is only ever Rossi or Bayliss and sometimes Haga)

EDIT : to stay on topic...

Unfortunately, I think it is obvious that Hayden is struggling on the Ducati. Stoner was fast from the very beginning. There was no learning curve. Hayden's times are not back of the field, but on a sorted 990, he was consistent top 5 and even top 3. Now, it is quite possible that he will buck the trend of all the Ducati non-Stoners and actually get faster over time with the bike. I would like to see that. However, I think analysis of his very first tests are enough to cause concern for Hayden fans, but it IS a first test... maybe he'll get there, just using a different route than Stoner. If he does eventually get top 3 and/or wins, it will be a large feather in his cap doing what nobody else not named Stoner could do.

I think the very interesting comparison will be Sete v Hayden. I expect them to be pacing pretty close, but I wonder if we will see a large gap between the two over the season. I guess I wouldn't really be surprised either way.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RCV600RR @ Nov 13 2008, 02:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I wish I had a 'lack of riding skills' if it meant I could beat Mladin to an AMA SBK title as a teenager and win a MotoGP championship. Damn.

hayden as himself didn't win a MotoGP title. he has his place in history books as only rider whose championship winning title was donated from his rival manufacturer.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tamada6 @ Nov 13 2008, 12:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>hayden as himself didn't win a MotoGP title. he has his place in history books as only rider whose championship winning title was donated from his rival manufacturer.


Donated implies willingly

Nothing was ever given willingly.

If Yamaha underestimated something then stiff ...., they didn't bring the title over with a cake and some make a wish candles. They were still in it until Vale binned it in the last race.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Parc Ferme @ Nov 13 2008, 02:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hayden's name remains alive because of the fantastic 2006 season.

"fantastic 2006 season"? he picked up less points than gibernau in his two runner-up seasons. he had just 2 miserly wins (one was gifted) in 17 races despite seated on best bike on the grid. melandri on that customer's shitbox called gresini honda picked up 3 wins. rossi had 3 more wins on lesser bike than hayden. anorexic rookie pedrosa on same 990 beast as hayden (hayden prefered such bikes according to his fanboys here) had same number of victory as hayden in his fourth premier class season. and that is a fantastic season? what a poor sport MotoGP would been if we mark that type of rider's season as fantastic.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>People must also remember that Hayden lost the title/points lead in Portugal. Rossi then lost it at Valencia. It is too bad because he could have been the only rider to have titles on the 990, but now Hayden also shares that honor with him.

rossi lost title in shanghai, le mans and laguna because of yamaha's fault. hayden had a perfect reliability record, so no need for cry about dany's manoevre in estoril. fortunately hayden didn't share any honor with rossi apart from that he rode same bike as rossi in 2003.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy Roo @ Nov 13 2008, 02:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Donated implies willingly

in this case no.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>They were still in it until

that was miracle if we considered what shitbox rossi's m1 was in 2006. and that suggested how incompetent hayden really is because he didn't secure title before the last race on far superior bike than rossi had.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Marijke @ Nov 12 2008, 01:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>keep in mind that although people might have different opinions about riders than the mayority of the people on here, they are not necessarily Pinky or CSAWCV etc. there are people out there who think hayden sucks, some of you dont like perdosa and some of you dont like stoner.
This comment sucked me into posting on this ridiculous thread. Geez Mari, if you can't see that #41, Tamada6, 27, are all the same Pinky, then you have more naive issues than I had previously thought. Please, open your eyes for a moment and see the obvious.

Most of us (apparently not you and a few others) cannot distinguish who is who around here. I can distinguish between honest members who have differing opinions as oppose to the same person with differing aliases. Wake up. This thread is a total joke, that is why it merits no posts by me, but only what you said here was way too much for me to stomach. Call it what it is--simply a pinky thread. Don't try to make a case that its about differing opinions, that has nothing, nothing to do with it, this .... using multiple aliases is a mockery to the integrity of this forum and you; by either naively not know this or pretending not to realize its the same person, on both counts, its making you look stupid. This falls far short of thoughtful logical debate, and as you know, plenty here can hold their own when it comes to sound debating of opinions. 117 posts and counting; and the big joke is, he is making a fool of you.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tamada6 @ Nov 13 2008, 01:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>in this case no.

Look, as much as I am avoiding work at the moment and take some solace in arguing with the many personalities of Sybil (the anti Hayden combined with the tortured syntax etc etc.) I am not going on with this beyond the following.

If it was donated it was willingly given. If in this case "No" then why is that different to any other team or rider in the series? Everyone sets out to exploit the other guy’s weakness whatever it is, play your own strength and steal away from whoever it may be the title.

Isn't it time for your medication?

I'm no Hayden fan, but I do wish him all the best. He certainly impressed towards the end of the season after he came back from injury.
I'd like to see him mix it with the usual suspects, it would be great for racing.

If he can come to terms with the Duc and ride it (unlike Melandri did or didn't!) he will be in the top 4 or 5 without a doubt.

As for winning? Probably not, but I ain't going to put money on it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy Roo @ Nov 13 2008, 02:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Isn't it time for your medication?

"Are you off your meds or something?" Billy Bob Thornton as Willie in Bad Santa

http://www.moviewavs.com/php/sounds/?id=go...offyourmeds.wav