Joined Apr 2011
1K Posts | 87+
Pangea
bluegreen
Yes Bradley Smith has done far better than I expected him to.....he was also very courageous riding thru the pain with that nasty hand injury. Good luck to him next year.
Yes Bradley Smith has done far better than I expected him to.....he was also very courageous riding thru the pain with that nasty hand injury. Good luck to him next year.
Joined Mar 2005
7K Posts | 20+
Woody Creek
Talpa
Your theory is that Valentino, with podium places hanging directly in front of his surely salivating maw, chose not to get involved because Jorge's development direction is opposed to what Valentino would like? Jorge will dictate development of the Yamaha for the foreseeable future, assuming Yamaha is smart enough to keep him under contract, regardless of whether Valentino finishes fourth or fourteenth.
Or perhaps I'm misunderstanding your theory, and that's Valentino didn't want to get involved because he and Jorge don't get on. You know what I'd say to that? Get stuffed. That'd be awfully rich coming from the man who was perfectly content to allow Colin Edwards to do his donkey work for him, and was none too pleased when Jorge began getting equal treatment.
Not that I buy into either theory (I firmly believe Valentino simply couldn't keep up, even with Lorenzo doing his best to back everyone up), but the portrait you're painting of Rossi is not a flattering one.
Your theory is that Valentino, with podium places hanging directly in front of his surely salivating maw, chose not to get involved because Jorge's development direction is opposed to what Valentino would like? Jorge will dictate development of the Yamaha for the foreseeable future, assuming Yamaha is smart enough to keep him under contract, regardless of whether Valentino finishes fourth or fourteenth.
Or perhaps I'm misunderstanding your theory, and that's Valentino didn't want to get involved because he and Jorge don't get on. You know what I'd say to that? Get stuffed. That'd be awfully rich coming from the man who was perfectly content to allow Colin Edwards to do his donkey work for him, and was none too pleased when Jorge began getting equal treatment.
Not that I buy into either theory (I firmly believe Valentino simply couldn't keep up, even with Lorenzo doing his best to back everyone up), but the portrait you're painting of Rossi is not a flattering one.
Joined Jul 2007
5K Posts | 1K+
unda cheese
QuitterPete is back. Have you no faith man!!
Just because Rossi has had 3 god awful, .....,pathetic, embarassing,uninspiring lackluster,crappy, did I mention embarassing seasons you are ready to give up. I thought you were a Scotsman not an Aussie. Stiffin your ...... lips mate. Has anyone bothered to notice that the Yams not piloted by Lorenzo the last 3 years are ....., pathetic, embarassing, uninspiring, lackluster, crappy,did I mention embarassing? Anyone seen Cal lately? Bradley who? I think it's time we shine the light on Lorenzo and realize that without him the Yamaha Gp program isnt quite the juggernaut Its made out to be.
Rossi is riding the tailor made jorgecycle who is applying a flawless style that is emulated by no other Rider on the grid.
I am skeptical that anyone else could win on the Yam consistently if it takes that type of perfection to win.
Yamaha has had a year of feedback from Rossi and while they wont cater development in his direction surely his 2014 jorgetino cycle will be better suited to him then the 2013 jorge cycle.
Im not counting him out of the game just yet. Making a tough choice in changing crew chiefs this late in the game reeks as desperation to many but tells me he still has the fire and wants to win.
Just because Rossi has had 3 god awful, .....,pathetic, embarassing,uninspiring lackluster,crappy, did I mention embarassing seasons you are ready to give up. I thought you were a Scotsman not an Aussie. Stiffin your ...... lips mate. Has anyone bothered to notice that the Yams not piloted by Lorenzo the last 3 years are ....., pathetic, embarassing, uninspiring, lackluster, crappy,did I mention embarassing? Anyone seen Cal lately? Bradley who? I think it's time we shine the light on Lorenzo and realize that without him the Yamaha Gp program isnt quite the juggernaut Its made out to be.
Rossi is riding the tailor made jorgecycle who is applying a flawless style that is emulated by no other Rider on the grid.
I am skeptical that anyone else could win on the Yam consistently if it takes that type of perfection to win.
Yamaha has had a year of feedback from Rossi and while they wont cater development in his direction surely his 2014 jorgetino cycle will be better suited to him then the 2013 jorge cycle.
Im not counting him out of the game just yet. Making a tough choice in changing crew chiefs this late in the game reeks as desperation to many but tells me he still has the fire and wants to win.
Talpa
I rather suspect Jorge may see it as conforming to the new paradigm as opposed to hypocrisy. Admittedly Dani had done nothing this year to deserve the treatment he received (other than riding for HRC), but Jorge's pass on him this weekend was no worse than MM's last corner pass on Jorge at Jerez, which as it stands provided the championship winning margin. MM's late season take-out of Dani also arguably resulted in a potentially critical 5 points extra for MM, to say nothing of the points loss for Dani.
I personally don't necessarily totally approve of 250cc Jorge, but that guy had easily enough aggression to match MM as I have said previously.
I rather suspect Jorge may see it as conforming to the new paradigm as opposed to hypocrisy. Admittedly Dani had done nothing this year to deserve the treatment he received (other than riding for HRC), but Jorge's pass on him this weekend was no worse than MM's last corner pass on Jorge at Jerez, which as it stands provided the championship winning margin. MM's late season take-out of Dani also arguably resulted in a potentially critical 5 points extra for MM, to say nothing of the points loss for Dani.
I personally don't necessarily totally approve of 250cc Jorge, but that guy had easily enough aggression to match MM as I have said previously.
Joined Apr 2008
7K Posts | 3K+
Out of Nowhere
michaelm
Agree - many on here are that are happy to pillory Marc Marquez simply weren't around or watching the emergent 'Hormone' Lorenzo on a 125 and worse still - his adolescent anger on a 250. Sachsenring 2005 is a good starting point. At least for all his wild style MM has an even temperament and a cool head. Equanimity wins races - Lorenzo knows that now.
Agree - many on here are that are happy to pillory Marc Marquez simply weren't around or watching the emergent 'Hormone' Lorenzo on a 125 and worse still - his adolescent anger on a 250. Sachsenring 2005 is a good starting point. At least for all his wild style MM has an even temperament and a cool head. Equanimity wins races - Lorenzo knows that now.
Joined Apr 2008
7K Posts | 3K+
Out of Nowhere
JohnnyKnockdown
I agree. Back in 2007 most had no trouble in believing the Ducati was .... and it was stoner making the difference. Funny how they can't carry the same logic over to Lorenzo on the Yam.
I agree. Back in 2007 most had no trouble in believing the Ducati was .... and it was stoner making the difference. Funny how they can't carry the same logic over to Lorenzo on the Yam.
chopperman
I don't think most thought that the 2007 Ducati was crap, rather the opposite at the time, although some including me became convinced that its straightline advantage was counterbalanced by deficiencies in other aspects in retrospect, and from an admittedly fanboy perspective thought even in 2007 that Stoner was contributing significantly. It was invincible against the 2007 opposition if you could ride it though.
Otherwise I think the parallel is apt. No doubt for whatever reason, mainly involving talent imo, with possibly some contribution from the current Yamaha peculiarly suiting him as seemed to be the case with Stoner and the 2007 Ducati, that Jorge is the only one capable of getting a Yamaha anywhere near the HRC bikes at the moment, one of the reasons I have become a Lorenzo fan.
I don't think most thought that the 2007 Ducati was crap, rather the opposite at the time, although some including me became convinced that its straightline advantage was counterbalanced by deficiencies in other aspects in retrospect, and from an admittedly fanboy perspective thought even in 2007 that Stoner was contributing significantly. It was invincible against the 2007 opposition if you could ride it though.
Otherwise I think the parallel is apt. No doubt for whatever reason, mainly involving talent imo, with possibly some contribution from the current Yamaha peculiarly suiting him as seemed to be the case with Stoner and the 2007 Ducati, that Jorge is the only one capable of getting a Yamaha anywhere near the HRC bikes at the moment, one of the reasons I have become a Lorenzo fan.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
chopperman
Well for starters compa, the overwhelming opinion was that the GP07 was the best bike on the grid and far ahead of the others. It took years to put this erroneous assessment to rest. As opposed to most people understanding that both the RCV & M1 works bikes are capable of wins this year where the factory RCV is slightly ahead of the M1 (except for Povol). That is, this year's factory M1's not ridden by Jorge are capable of wining, both the factory and satellite version have regularly been on the podium.
The M1 is the 2nd best factory machine, Lorenzo, like Stoner won the races they did respectively. But the magnitude in parity between the M1 to the RCV is far smaller than the GP07 was to anything else on the grid, still is. Les I remind you, that if u consider Crutchlow's opinion worth anything (for the record, I have my doubts) he said Lorenzo could win on his Tech3. Other than the only 2 factory RCV, the next best thing are all 4 of the M1s.
Well for starters compa, the overwhelming opinion was that the GP07 was the best bike on the grid and far ahead of the others. It took years to put this erroneous assessment to rest. As opposed to most people understanding that both the RCV & M1 works bikes are capable of wins this year where the factory RCV is slightly ahead of the M1 (except for Povol). That is, this year's factory M1's not ridden by Jorge are capable of wining, both the factory and satellite version have regularly been on the podium.
The M1 is the 2nd best factory machine, Lorenzo, like Stoner won the races they did respectively. But the magnitude in parity between the M1 to the RCV is far smaller than the GP07 was to anything else on the grid, still is. Les I remind you, that if u consider Crutchlow's opinion worth anything (for the record, I have my doubts) he said Lorenzo could win on his Tech3. Other than the only 2 factory RCV, the next best thing are all 4 of the M1s.
Jumkie
I don't think many said "it's the best bike". It sure was the fastest though ! The long straights of catalyuna and mugello showed that. The Duc would be past in the twistys only to mug the position back on the straight. Trouble is the ps gimps (boners) could not differentiate the different meaning of "fast" and "best".
2nd best factory machine hahaha. you're not wrong but in this case 2nd best is last. just look how Rossi's 4th place finish is perceived here.
I don't think many said "it's the best bike". It sure was the fastest though ! The long straights of catalyuna and mugello showed that. The Duc would be past in the twistys only to mug the position back on the straight. Trouble is the ps gimps (boners) could not differentiate the different meaning of "fast" and "best".
2nd best factory machine hahaha. you're not wrong but in this case 2nd best is last. just look how Rossi's 4th place finish is perceived here.
Joined Aug 2013
342 Posts | 1+
Louisiana, USA
My memory's a little hazy, but I recall when Stoner was winning on the GP07, people were attributing that success more to the bike than they did to Stoner. When Stoner was eating pavement on the Duc and complaining about how the front end was worthless, people attributed that not to the Duc's shortcomings on the bike but to Stoner's lack of skill. It seems comical now, but just a few short years ago people were penciling Ducati in for the title after Vale jumped to the Italian factory, with stories being written about how awesome it would be for an Italian to win the title on an Italian bike.
Of course, we now all know what really happened: the Duc was an awful machine and Stoner was making it look a lot better than it was. If Jorge ever jumps ship (unlikely, but you never know) and an "ordinary" rider takes his place, then we'll know just how limited the M1 really was and how hard he had to ride it to race at such a high level. I'm willing to bet Jorge is pulling some serious magic tricks to keep the M1 at the front of the grid.
Of course, we now all know what really happened: the Duc was an awful machine and Stoner was making it look a lot better than it was. If Jorge ever jumps ship (unlikely, but you never know) and an "ordinary" rider takes his place, then we'll know just how limited the M1 really was and how hard he had to ride it to race at such a high level. I'm willing to bet Jorge is pulling some serious magic tricks to keep the M1 at the front of the grid.
Joined Apr 2008
7K Posts | 3K+
Out of Nowhere
rezonator636
Great post.
From what I understand Jorge's set up/suspension settings is/are diametrically the opposite to that of his teammate. Where once the steep tall settings of the M1 favoured Rossi under the harder tyre compound, the situation has changed and Lorenzo/Forcada have perfectly harmonised the strengths of both rider and machine to exploit the package to its maximum. All the Yamaha riders including Rossi have openly stated that when they try to emulate Lorenzo's braking, lean angle and corner speed they crash. As we know, and as has been well documented, Lorenzo rides the thing like a giant 250. It doesn't like getting crossed up or out of shape, and it relies heavily on edge grip of the tyre. Undoubtably he would have to majorly compromise/adapt his style and approach should the rumoured defection to HRC in 2015 become a reality.
EDIT: ...Although it is also generally accepted that the RCV213v is the best machine on the grid and believed to be easier to find and push to the limit, it still does not mean that it is a simple proposition riding it at sustained the level required to secure regular race wins or a title. I think Jorge would encounter some degree of difficulty adapting to this 'alien' (pardon the pun) style.
Great post.
From what I understand Jorge's set up/suspension settings is/are diametrically the opposite to that of his teammate. Where once the steep tall settings of the M1 favoured Rossi under the harder tyre compound, the situation has changed and Lorenzo/Forcada have perfectly harmonised the strengths of both rider and machine to exploit the package to its maximum. All the Yamaha riders including Rossi have openly stated that when they try to emulate Lorenzo's braking, lean angle and corner speed they crash. As we know, and as has been well documented, Lorenzo rides the thing like a giant 250. It doesn't like getting crossed up or out of shape, and it relies heavily on edge grip of the tyre. Undoubtably he would have to majorly compromise/adapt his style and approach should the rumoured defection to HRC in 2015 become a reality.
EDIT: ...Although it is also generally accepted that the RCV213v is the best machine on the grid and believed to be easier to find and push to the limit, it still does not mean that it is a simple proposition riding it at sustained the level required to secure regular race wins or a title. I think Jorge would encounter some degree of difficulty adapting to this 'alien' (pardon the pun) style.
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