The end of FACTORY racing

Kropotkin · Nov 1, 2011

birdman said:
Dont show the graph to Ducati what with that new controversial sportbike they have Bayliss developing. Dont show Aprilia either what with all the money they wasted developing a V-4 for the street. Dont tell BMW who just joined the sport 1000 market for some reason, I dont know why since apparently there's no money or no future in it?

BMW: It's a niche they have to be in to add some cachet to their products.

Aprilia: Ask them how many RSVs they've sold. Make sure you have a box of kleenex and a comforting shoulder for them to cry on before you do.

Ducati: You know what the biggest selling bikes for Ducati are? Here's a tip: they don't have clipons.

beefsupreme · Nov 1, 2011

povol said:
He used the name John Galt for a reason. He could have just said greedy evil capitalist when referring to potential sponsors or the manufacturers.

It takes a little bit of an objectivist obsession ("punish success") to think Ezpeleta and Dorna are hippies who are out to create some sort of socialist nightmare in MotoGP just because they want to make racing's economics more rational. Honda will still be able to pay top dollar for the best riders, even if everyone was on spec chassis with stock motors (which they won't be).

birdman · Nov 1, 2011

Kropotkin said:
It's a niche they have to be in to add some cachet to their products.

Good. Otherwise known as advertising. Apply it to all of the manufacturers. Suddenly sport bikes arent such as waste of money after all, even if they fail to top the market segment. Oh and by the way selling bikes is a competition. There's no garantee of success. Look back over R1 sales history.

Kropotkin · Nov 1, 2011

birdman said:
Good. Otherwise known as advertising. Apply it to all of the manufacturers. Suddenly sport bikes arent such as waste of money after all, even if they fail to top the market segment. Oh and by the way selling bikes is a competition. There's no garantee of success. Look back over R1 sales history.

Sportsbikes have their place, as a niche product for a select audience. But I can tell you from personal experience that manufacturers everywhere, of all kinds of motorcycle equipment from bikes to clothing to accessories, are walking away from the sportsbike market. It is costing me money.

two-stroke · Nov 1, 2011

Krop is the man, man.

birdman · Nov 1, 2011

Kropotkin said:
Sportsbikes have their place, as a niche product for a select audience. But I can tell you from personal experience that manufacturers everywhere, of all kinds of motorcycle equipment from bikes to clothing to accessories, are walking away from the sportsbike market. It is costing me money.

Its always been that way. When moneys tight, the first think to cut is the luxury items. Its happening on a much wider scope than just sportbikes.

Now apply the theory you just stated to motogp. Sportbikes, niche audience, walking away from the market, costing me money. Why say .... the manufacturers its all their fault?

Mick D · Nov 1, 2011

Sportbikes are hardly a "luxury item" if you buy used

... on average a harley costs more. Sportbikes are however a small market appealing to far less people (of ALL ages) than cruiser/touring bikes. Manufacturers can be, and are a problem in motorsports when they get to control the show... kinda like when the big banks and insurance companies have no watchdogs and are allowed to deregulate at will...

birdman · Nov 1, 2011

mylexicon said:
I think it is pretty clear how Bridgepoint will redefine SBK and MotoGP. SBK will go back to its roots with sales, sales, and more sales. MotoGP will become an insane circus (like the 990cc era) which provides bountiful funding for IRTA and the commercial rights interests. The rumors you've relayed about a spec-ECU and 16,000rpm rev limits make sense. It would certainly create an insane circus, and epic engines like the Honda V5 would be legal. SBK is less clear. Limited-production, high-margin SBKs sold primarily to race teams and wealthy individuals (homologation specials, basically) or Supersport rules for mass-produced cookie cutters?

Best solution Ive read. Please do this Bridgepoint. Do they create an engine market for say the V5 to be sold to CRT or just allow it for everyone? If its for everyone will it become exclusive again? So maybe they have to sell it first to make it affordable.

mylexicon · Nov 1, 2011

hawkdriver · Nov 1, 2011

birdman said:
Its always been that way. When moneys tight, the first think to cut is the luxury items. Its happening on a much wider scope than just sportbikes.

Now apply the theory you just stated to motogp. Sportbikes, niche audience, walking away from the market, costing me money. Why say .... the manufacturers its all their fault?

Well who should we blame for the price of the bikes on the grid. What was so wrong with the 990s. Who wanted the rules that killed Suzuki GP effort. Who wanted the fuel limit rules that are making racing so expensive. Who pushed that even further by making sure the 1000's are going to also only get 21liters. It wasn't Dorna or the riders.

birdman · Nov 1, 2011

hawkdriver said:
Well who should we blame for the price of the bikes on the grid. What was so wrong with the 990s. Who wanted the rules that killed Suzuki GP effort. Who wanted the fuel limit rules that are making racing so expensive. Who pushed that even further by making sure the 1000's are going to also only get 21liters. It wasn't Dorna or the riders.

What is the price of the current Suzuki vs the 990 one, I have no idea? But in performance terms the fuel restricted 800cc Suzuki (and Ducati) won more races and podiums than the 990 versions!

If there are NO sponsors, anything is too expensive. Kroppo just stated even clothing manufacturers are walking away from the sportbike market. Makes it sound like a wider problem than motogp. And Motogp are sportbikes afterall.

Mick D · Nov 1, 2011

povol said:
The pervasive "punish success" mindset of todays generation...

Hmmm... depends on how you define success, doesn't it? If "success" is amassing more than you'll ever need or use at the expense of others then maybe the current western definition should change...

hawkdriver · Nov 1, 2011

birdman said:
What is the price of the current Suzuki vs the 990 one, I have no idea? But in performance terms the fuel restricted 800cc Suzuki (and Ducati) won more races and podiums than the 990 versions!

If there are NO sponsors, anything is too expensive. Kroppo just stated even clothing manufacturers are walking away from the sportbike market. Makes it sound like a wider problem than motogp. And Motogp are sportbikes afterall.

So we can agree that no matter who was responsible the current bikes on grid are to expensive and the sport will die with no sponsors. The sponsors who are attracted to the sport because of the advertising don't want to pay what it currently takes to have their name on the side of a GP bike. We have to make the bikes cheaper. Can we agree to this

birdman · Nov 1, 2011

hawkdriver said:
So we can agree that no matter who was responsible the current bikes on grid are to expensive and the sport will die with no sponsors. The sponsors who are attracted to the sport because of the advertising don't want to pay what it currently takes to have their name on the side of a GP bike. We have to make the bikes cheaper. Can we agree to this

Yep

barbedwirebiker · Nov 1, 2011

Kropotkin said:
Something to add to the debate:

http://motomatters.c...t_3_politi.html

"If they want to race with just six bikes [two factory Ducatis, two factory Hondas, two factory Yamahas - DE], that's fine, they will be world champions and I will focus on the other 16 bikes on the grid," the Dorna boss told AS.

From the horses mouth?? Bye Bye Suzuki?

povol · Nov 1, 2011

Beef Supreme said:
It takes a little bit of an objectivist obsession ("punish success") to think Ezpeleta and Dorna are hippies who are out to create some sort of socialist nightmare in MotoGP just because they want to make racing's economics more rational. Honda will still be able to pay top dollar for the best riders, even if everyone was on spec chassis with stock motors (which they won't be).

Dorna is trying to appease the whining masses [you the fan] who cry that Honda is evil and they are not being properly entertained. Its the fan who wants to punish success, that is, unless success is coming from a different source.

povol · Nov 1, 2011

Kropotkin said:
I used the name John Galt because I knew I would get an Ayn Rand Junior High whine out of someone. For the record, I don't think capitalists are evil or greedy. Well, not all of them. And you clearly know nothing about the Prince.

It sounds like Atlas Shrugged was an attack on your senses.,

Keshav · Nov 1, 2011

Mick D said:
Hmmm... depends on how you define success, doesn't it? If "success" is amassing more than you'll ever need or use at the expense of others then maybe the current western definition should change...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPkOv0-u6A0

Jumkie · Nov 1, 2011

Dang, this thread went deep. I love PS. Its what GP wants to be, high-powered, ongoing drama, and entertaining.

Jumkie · Nov 1, 2011

barbedwirebiker said:
"If they want to race with just six bikes [two factory Ducatis, two factory Hondas, two factory Yamahas - DE], that's fine, they will be world champions and I will focus on the other 16 bikes on the grid," the Dorna boss told AS.

From the horses mouth?? Bye Bye Suzuki?

A rather convenient assumption, well done sir.

The end of FACTORY racing

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