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The end of FACTORY racing

Jumkie said:
Why do you hate MotoGP so much? Maybe you don't understand it, or you should go watch something else.



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+1 and a whole shitload of friends that don't post here but watch the sport and support it.
 
ROCKGOD01 said:
Suddenly WSBK sounds way more interesting and I would bet it is better racing. These ........ want to make bike racing like NASCAR with all their control this control that. .... YOU! The spirit of MOTO GP is, our company can build a better bike, and our rider is better than yours, NO, OUR company can....OH YEAH prove it!!! So now some dimwit will contest that the "frames" are still a prototype and that the motors are still this manufacturer and Blah blah blah.



HEY DORNA, all your "cost" saving efforts cost everyone more money, the 800's in your infinate wisdom suck ..... You come up with these "ideas" and tell us the racing etc etc is going to be better, well..it's not. DORNA, Ezy, I hope you really consider the brand of motoGP because everything you are doing, save for the 1000cc's coming back, is pretty .......



Oh and no matter how hard you try to ride the coattails of the real MOTOGP, these ........ bikes that are mere shadows of what a modern GP bike should be.



But fear not my purist friends. The bike makers will not fall in line. They would sooner let Motogp die in the hands of these educated morons than smear their company names with these glorified club racers and club bikes. Do you think Honda would love to hear the announcers stating that the frame their motor sits in junk chassis with barely enough money in the team to buy some toilet paper? HEll no. Problem is that Dorna is uninspired, they have lost the fire and passion of the sport that boasts the worlds best.....hmmmmmm the worlds best. Not that is just a whole other issue to isn't it? Are they really the worlds best riders on the best machines? I say no...Hey Dorna, get a clue fast.
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I hate to break the news but Dorna didn't bring you the 800s, it was Honda. Dorna is actually taking away the power of the MSMA to make rules and formats for the racing.

Dorna has been unable to persuade Motorcycle Sport Manufacturers Association (MSMA) factories to lower their lease prices. At the same time the MSMA has been unable to maintain the original 'promise' of five factory two-bike teams. Originally, at the dawn of the switch from MotoGP 990s to the current 800cc fours, the then five members in good standing of the MSMA -- Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, Kawasaki and Ducati -- were contracted to enter a minimum of two factory bikes per team during the five-year period from 2007 through the 2011 season.
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http://moto-racing.s...s-a-crt-pt-iii/

These are the facts of the rules and who really has been in control of GP

In earlier days when the MSMA held most of the power and the manufacturers had autonomy and the power of the veto, they could change any rules they didn't like. But these rules, approved by Dorna, IRTA, the FIM and the MSMA, cannot be overridden by even a unanimous MSMA vote. Dorna with their automatic support from IRTA and their power to cast tiebreaking votes in the Grand Prix Commission are in the catbird seat.



Introducing new rules that further favor CRT teams, however, could be headed off under current rules by a unanimous MSMA negative vote. But Dorna, in spite of some reports, has not yet signed a new contract with the MSMA; a pre-agreement has been reached. Dorna believe that the current rules package sets the stage for an eventual MotoGP series with factory teams unable to dominate the series simply by making more power, and the Spanish rights holder will never give the MSMA back the power it once had to write the rules and then change them whenever there was unanimous agreement.
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ROCKGOD01 said:
Suddenly WSBK sounds way more interesting and I would bet it is better racing. These ........ want to make bike racing like NASCAR with all their control this control that. .... YOU! The spirit of MOTO GP is, our company can build a better bike, and our rider is better than yours, NO, OUR company can....OH YEAH prove it!!! So now some dimwit will contest that the "frames" are still a prototype and that the motors are still this manufacturer and Blah blah blah.



HEY DORNA, all your "cost" saving efforts cost everyone more money, the 800's in your infinate wisdom suck ..... You come up with these "ideas" and tell us the racing etc etc is going to be better, well..it's not. DORNA, Ezy, I hope you really consider the brand of motoGP because everything you are doing, save for the 1000cc's coming back, is pretty .......



Oh and no matter how hard you try to ride the coattails of the real MOTOGP, these ........ bikes that are mere shadows of what a modern GP bike should be.



But fear not my purist friends. The bike makers will not fall in line. They would sooner let Motogp die in the hands of these educated morons than smear their company names with these glorified club racers and club bikes. Do you think Honda would love to hear the announcers stating that the frame their motor sits in junk chassis with barely enough money in the team to buy some toilet paper? HEll no. Problem is that Dorna is uninspired, they have lost the fire and passion of the sport that boasts the worlds best.....hmmmmmm the worlds best. Not that is just a whole other issue to isn't it? Are they really the worlds best riders on the best machines? I say no...Hey Dorna, get a clue fast.
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I see what your saying but isn't it the MSMA, particularly Honda, that wanted to bring on the 800's to make it safer?



If Ezpleta's objective is to create an environment where teams can build their own chassis and buy engines from any manufacturer they so please (especially if those engines are prototype engines) then I'm all for it.



Basically I'm in favor of seeing a full grid of bikes like Team Roberts. It would be nice to see that V5 or V4 sodl to teams on the grid while still having the manufacturers racing if they want to remain involved.



But for now this seems necessary in order to shake up the status quo and reach that objective
 
All this scorn being poured on Dorna (and believe me, they deserve plenty of scorn) and it's all the fault of the factories. The MSMA want fuel limits, 800cc, as much electronics as possible. The MSMA don't care about racing, other than as a driver for development. If MotoGP dies, it will be a mere inconvenience for them.



If you are a purist, then these 800cc bikes are the ultimate Grand Prix motorcycles, and they are all the result of rules the MSMA made. Fast, reliable, as close to perfection as a motorcycle can be.
 
Jumkie said:
Why do you hate MotoGP so much? Maybe you don't understand it, or you should go watch something else.



<
Click to expand...



That reminds me of all those neo-con ........ after 9/11, who answered any criticism of US policy with the question "Why do you hate America?" while it was them, the idiots like Bill O'Reilly who really hate America.
 
HUMOR FAILURE



Would somebody care to explain it to Kropo?
 
Kropotkin said:
Went to the Yamaha tech presentation. They said their electronics are predictive, and cut power before slides or wheelies start. The ECU knows exactly where it is on the track, despite having no GPS, just works it out from wheel sensors and engine speed
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Yeah I just came from the Ducati Tech Presentation. They had a guy spinning 2 sticks together trying to create a fire.

They said their electronics cut power before podiums and wins start. Their ECU always knows where its on the track as well. Its a complex system. If there are 20 bikes on the track and 4 of them are Ducati it knows that it's somewhere between 17th and 20th place
 
JohnnyKnockdown said:
Yeah I just came from the Ducati Tech Presentation. They had a guy spinning 2 sticks together trying to create a fire.

They said their electronics cut power before podiums and wins start. Their ECU always knows where its on the track as well. Its a complex system. If there are 20 bikes on the track and 4 of them are Ducati it knows that it's somewhere between 17th and 20th place
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Now that's ....... funny!
 
JohnnyKnockdown said:
Yeah I just came from the Ducati Tech Presentation. They had a guy spinning 2 sticks together trying to create a fire.

They said their electronics cut power before podiums and wins start. Their ECU always knows where its on the track as well. Its a complex system. If there are 20 bikes on the track and 4 of them are Ducati it knows that it's somewhere between 17th and 20th place
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....... awesome!



This whole thread rules. This is why I come to PS.
 
JohnnyKnockdown said:
Yeah I just came from the Ducati Tech Presentation. They had a guy spinning 2 sticks together trying to create a fire.

They said their electronics cut power before podiums and wins start. Their ECU always knows where its on the track as well. Its a complex system. If there are 20 bikes on the track and 4 of them are Ducati it knows that it's somewhere between 17th and 20th place
Click to expand...



The Suzuki presentation was also interesting. Their ECU has a time-sensitive feature: it cuts power by 10% for the first 8 months of the year, finally reaching maximum HP in October. The system is also tied in to rule changes: it provides a power boost just before the rules change which can last for up to 12 months, before sliding back slowly into oblivion.
 
hawkdriver said:
It ruins the racing for me when I see two of the same bikes going into a corner and one has a bucking rear wheel while the other is smooth and planted, this is electronics.
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Too true. Valencia.



Pedrosa: "I'm not totally satisfied with the set up of the bike yet, we need to improve the front tonight with the mechanics." In other words, fix my ....... electronics, now!



Rossi "I’m quite fast in T2 and T3, which are twisty, but I lose a lot in T1 and T4, where I have a hard time braking like I should, and where the bike tends to wheelie too much on acceleration." That means: tell that ........ to stop playing with the sticks and fix the damn wheelie control.



Hayden "For tomorrow, we need to try to get more confidence in the front, to be able to attack the corners." In other words, he still cant have Rossi's front forks.



Spies : "I have to say thank you Yamaha for a great bike." Thanks microsoft for the predictive learning electronics.



Stoner: "We felt comfortable though and the feeling in the bike was pretty good, with a similar set up to the test we had here last year and we put in a good lap." What setting was it that you discovered in the test last year? In the test Gabarini used a pair of pliers to cut the 50 wires to the electronic sensors. Now it feels like a bike again.
 
Smooth and predictable is faster than bucking and weaving. Doesn't matter if you take the electronics away, the manufacturers will do everything in their power to make things smooth.



The problem is fuel capacity. We've seen plenty of sideways riding during qualifying throughout the entire 800cc era. The electronics are still equipped during qualifying, but the rider can do as he pleases b/c the fuel computer is not rationing fuel. During the race, the fuel computer decides how much power is sent to the rear wheel. It's a damn shame b/c the rider should be able to apply the throttle as he pleases to change the balance of the bike. This allows him to adjust balance for each corner, and it allows him to adjust the balance as the tires wear, the fuel burns off, and he starts realizing the strengths/deficiencies of his race day setup.



The MSMA have really shot themselves in the foot with this 21L rule. The fuel capacity restrictions are going to cost the MSMA control of the sport, and the market value of 800cc and high-tech electronics is impaired by angry fans who despise the quality of 21L racing.



I don't understand why Honda/Yamaha have let affairs deteriorate so rapidly. The MSMA have no allies in the GPC, and they have apparently received a vote of no-confidence from Bridgepoint. The miserable state of affairs has given Dorna the political capital they need to go after the MSMA.



The MSMA are willing to endure this hell so a guy in a white lab coat can have his way? It beggars belief.
 

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