The end of FACTORY racing

hawkdriver · Oct 15, 2011

Oh man that is the best news I've seen in a while. Real engine builders and motorcycle parts companies being able to get into the market and giving them a reason to produce parts for the fastest bikes in the world. Parts that will be based around 1000cc engines that are in the bikes we can buy. This gonna do for the motorcycle engine what nascar did for the small block V8, mark my words we'll soon see complete heads and engine kits at reasonable prices for the 1000s. Good bye ...... fuel limit rules, give us power!

hawkdriver · Oct 22, 2011

Well dorna will not be spending any more money to help any factory team or Sat team that uses a factory bike. It looks like they are going to continue with 2012 commitments but 2013 is gonna be all about the CRTs.

http://www.as.com/mo...dasdaimot_1/Tes

Kropotkin · Oct 23, 2011

hawkdriver said:
Well dorna will not be spending any more money to help any factory team or Sat team that uses a factory bike. It looks like they are going to continue with 2012 commitments but 2013 is gonna be all about the CRTs.

http://www.as.com/mo...dasdaimot_1/Tes

.... the factories. They brought it on themselves.

BarryMachine · Oct 23, 2011

Is this really the big problem you guys are making it out?

Its just change

so it could actually be even better.

Jumkie · Oct 23, 2011

Kropotkin said:
.... the factories. They brought it on themselves.

I like the bravado. Lots of emotion. However, didn't they also keep the series going?

motortom · Oct 23, 2011

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHpdgHTINik

Kropotkin · Oct 23, 2011

Jumkie said:
I like the bravado. Lots of emotion. However, didn't they also keep the series going?

They kept it alive by strangling it. They demanded rules which ensured that only a factory could afford to compete. They paid off their credit card debts by consolidating their loans into one giant bankruptcy.

No. They did not keep the series going. Or perhaps they kept it going down the road to perdition....

.... 'em. I hope Carmelo gives the CRT bikes 28 liters of fuel.

hawkdriver · Oct 23, 2011

Kropotkin said:
.... the factories. They brought it on themselves.

I agree 100% .... Honda, the 800s, and the ...... lease bike monopoly they have enjoyed. Time to put racing back into the hands of the teams.

mylexicon · Oct 25, 2011

Kropotkin said:
They kept it alive by strangling it. They demanded rules which ensured that only a factory could afford to compete. They paid off their credit card debts by consolidating their loans into one giant bankruptcy.

No. They did not keep the series going. Or perhaps they kept it going down the road to perdition....

.... 'em. I hope Carmelo gives the CRT bikes 28 liters of fuel.

My assessment of the situation is similar. Notes had a good comment in his latest series on speedtv.com

He said the factories should not be allowed to dominate by simply creating more horsepower. Maybe "simply" doesn't do the engineering justice, but mankind has basically played the horsepower-per-liter-game to it's ultimate conclusion. Horsepower-per-gallon isn't appropriate for motorcycles or sprint racers, imo.

Factories are god for the sport, but not for the rulebook.

Keshav · Oct 30, 2011

Kropotkin said:
.... the factories. They brought it on themselves.

Ain't it the truth.

Kropotkin · Oct 31, 2011

Something to add to the debate:

http://motomatters.com/analysis/2011/10/31/the_2012_motogp_revolution_part_3_politi.html

Tom · Oct 31, 2011

Kropotkin said:
Something to add to the debate:

http://motomatters.c...t_3_politi.html

Hypothetically if the CRT rules work well and the grid sees plenty of bikes with some decent riders and exciting battles and they get most of the TV time, do you think there is any chance the factories would sacrifice their right to 'claim' other teams engines in order to race under the same rules and unify the series? Or do you think they are more likely to continue racing for the title in a 6 bike battle of electronics?

cliche guevara · Oct 31, 2011

i just can't see any manufacturer competing in a series that consists of a maximum of 6 riders.

personally, i wouldn't be surprised if at the end of 2012 all factory teams withdraw their support

Mick D · Oct 31, 2011

It will be interesting to see how this all plays out... Change should be good for the series overall, especially if things work out the way the article describes. Unfortunately there's that pesky law of unintended consequences...

Kropotkin · Oct 31, 2011

Tom said:
Hypothetically if the CRT rules work well and the grid sees plenty of bikes with some decent riders and exciting battles and they get most of the TV time, do you think there is any chance the factories would sacrifice their right to 'claim' other teams engines in order to race under the same rules and unify the series? Or do you think they are more likely to continue racing for the title in a 6 bike battle of electronics?

Once Ezpeleta has taken the rule-making ability away from the MSMA, he'll start changing the rules for the factory bikes as well. We will end up with just 1 class in MotoGP, probably rev-limited to 16K, probably with a spec ECU, and the factory bikes will still win, as they will have the factory riders.

povol · Oct 31, 2011

Kropotkin said:
Something to add to the debate:

http://motomatters.c...t_3_politi.html

Ezpeleta pointed to the irony that Moto2 had faced such heavy criticism when it was announced, but was now probably the most eagerly awaited race of the weekend.

Absolute nonsense, all you have to do is look at any bike racing forum, especially this one," which i consider to be the best on the internet", to see that Moto2 is nowhere near as anticipated as the GP bikes. There is more discussion about GP qualifying in one event, than a whole years worth of Motro2 discussion.

two-stroke · Oct 31, 2011

Interesting times.

Imagine - a 26 rider motogp grid in 2013, with 6 or 7 different engines and the same amount of frames racing against each other.

It may be a dream, but that sounds pretty damn good to me.

spooky · Oct 31, 2011

povol said:
Ezpeleta pointed to the irony that Moto2 had faced such heavy criticism when it was announced, but was now probably the most eagerly awaited race of the weekend.

Absolute nonsense, all you have to do is look at any bike racing forum, especially this one," which i consider to be the best on the internet", to see that Moto2 is nowhere near as anticipated as the GP bikes. There is more discussion about GP qualifying in one event, than a whole years worth of Motro2 discussion.

In terms of the show it is probably the most anticipated. For me personally though its always about the big bikes, even when most of 800cc races were boring as ...., occasionally, just occasionally you get a fantastic race, like Catalunya '07, Laguna '08 or Catalunya '09!

cliche guevara · Oct 31, 2011

two-stroke said:
Interesting times.

Imagine - a 26 rider motogp grid in 2013, with 6 or 7 different engines and the same amount of frames racing against each other.

It may be a dream, but that sounds pretty damn good to me.

it sounds like f1 is being reduced to CART in a way.but i always liked cart so bring it on....

edit: also , i'm not so sure how this will influence street bikes. regular 1000s are far too expensive these days

are current wsbk engines roughly what we will get in CRT?

povol · Oct 31, 2011

spooky said:
In terms of the show it is probably the most anticipated. For me personally though its always about the big bikes, even when most of 800cc races were boring as ...., occasionally, just occasionally you get a fantastic race, like Catalunya '07, Laguna '08 or Catalunya '09!

If that was the case, Dorna would have packed the manufacturers bags for them, and booted them to the curb. They are hedging their bets because they themselves do not know how the customer will react to uninspiring machines posing as GP bikes. I for one do not see bike racing as having unlimited growth potential, it just doesnt appeal to the masses. There is the risk of alienating the core GP fan and Dorna knows it. If that happens, GP is dead. Put it this way, if Moto 2 was a stand alone series and GP was a stand alone series, and they were both racing on the same weekend, which would you pay to go see. Even under current regs, im guessing the number would be 20 to 1 if not higher in favor of GP. I dont think i know one person who attends a GP event because of Moto2. Its a nice sideshow for the main event. If they turn GP into a glorified Superbike series, either GP or WSBK is dead.

The end of FACTORY racing

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