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MM has to win the title on another manufacturer before being declared greater than Stoner....


Stoner might have had even more raw talent than MM, but here's some shocking news for ya:

MM's titles: 7

CS's titles: 2


Take your time to do the math and then get back at us :D
 
MM has to win the title on another manufacturer before being declared greater than Stoner....


Stoner might have had even more raw talent than MM, but here's some shocking news for ya:

MM's titles: 7

CS's titles: 2


Take your time to do the math and then get back at us :D

It will never be known. Does Marquez hassle and pester stoner at close quarters forcing him to error, or does stoner break out, forcing Marquez to error overriding the limit to keep in contention? We do know, Casey can start a race at pace, ala Lorenzo, and clear out. Marquez has done so this year, when track suited.

Crystal ball ..... Marc doesn't win debut season, with Casey at HRC. Stoner relishes and appreciates the challenge. Doesn't retire. Marquez champ 2014. Lorenzo 2015. Who wins 2016?? ..... Rossi might have had his chance?
 
MM has to win the title on another manufacturer before being declared greater than Stoner....


Stoner might have had even more raw talent than MM, but here's some shocking news for ya:

MM's titles: 7

CS's titles: 2


Take your time to do the math and then get back at us :D

On the face of it I’d venture to say they’d have been on-track equals - but Marquez’ immunity to the politics and social media ........ along with his being at ease with the demands for PR work would have given him the edge. All the the media circus nonsense seemed to defuse Stoner’s focus.
 
Here's my 2 cents:

in terms of RAW talent Stoner is the best rider in the history of the sport, or at least of the one I witnessed (I follow MotoGP since I was 10 aka '02).

But Casey, despite being a God on a motorcycle (and I literally mean that), was not a racing animal. Never liked dogfights and never had the killer instinct. The lack of this "mean" side was one of the main things that burned him out.

Marquez adores taking aggressive overtakes. He gives no ..... who's in front of him he'll just come in trying to smash you. This is the main difference between the two.

While due to his immense speed, on certain tracks (like Phillip Island) Stoner would have been uncatchable even for the best Marquez, on a championship contention I personally have no doubt: MM would have beat him.


Of course would have been amazing to see even for just one year: team mates, so no bike advantage for any of the two, MM having his strongest point in the beginning/middle of the turn and Stoner having it in the middle/exiting... the battles between the two would have been orgasmic, no argument about that.
 
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Here's my 2 cents:

in terms of RAW talent Stoner is the best rider in the history of the sport, or at least of the one I witnessed (I follow MotoGP since I was 10 aka '02).

But Casey, despite being a God on a motorcycle (and I literally mean that), was not a racing animal. Never liked dogfights and never had the killer instinct. The lack of this "mean" side was one of the main things that burned him out.

Marquez adores taking aggressive overtakes. He gives no ..... who's in front of him he'll just come in trying to smash you. This is the main difference between the two.

While due to his immense speed, on certain tracks (like Phillip Island) Stoner would have been uncatchable even for the best Marquez, on a championship contention I personally have no doubt: MM would have beat him.


Of course would have been amazing to see even for just one year: team mates, so no bike advantage for any of the two, MM having his strongest point in the beginning/middle of the turn and Stoner having it in the middle/exiting... the battles between the two would have been orgasmic, no argument about that.

You underestimate Stoners ability to enter the turns.

Marc would of only had an advantage in breaking and Maybe corner entry judging by how he just throws the bike down into it.

Stoner would already have the rear out and smoking (if he wanted it to) before hitting mid corner giving him great grip as he would get the bike up sooner as well because of that.

I remember In catalunya 2011 Jorge's bike was as smooth as it could be and I could see Stoner just pull away a bit more at every corner, I couldn't quite understand where the difference was until I saw the slowmo replay on one of the left handers. DAMN
 
Well, you must be a genius if you understood what Stoner was doing. Other top riders who followed him out of curiosity and in hope to learn something have said they couldn't learn anything because they didn't understand how he was doing it.
 
Well, you must be a genius if you understood what Stoner was doing. Other top riders who followed him out of curiosity and in hope to learn something have said they couldn't learn anything because they didn't understand how he was doing it.

Never said I understood how he did it.

I did however understand how what he did gave him an advantage.

I remember an interview with Espargaro or Bautista not sure, who said the exact same you did.

I followed Stoner out of curiosity and could NOT understand how the .... he rode. that alone is amazing.
 
On the face of it I’d venture to say they’d have been on-track equals - but Marquez’ immunity to the politics and social media ........ along with his being at ease with the demands for PR work would have given him the edge. All the the media circus nonsense seemed to defuse Stoner’s focus.

If you read his bio, you come away with the distinct impression of a very solitary, loner kind of kid, totally obsessive in the way he deconstructed the circuits he raced at, totally happy just to travel from race to race seeing and hanging out with just a few pals and having meals with mom and dad. On those occasions when he just walked away from the field, unlike some riders who will say they feel alone and disconnected from the action, you got the feeling he was happiest then, without the distraction of other riders, instead, just reading the track and beating his own best performances. It never seemed he was all that invested in beating his rivals, just the track, because; he was just that good, and he knew it.
 
Absolutely he will. He'll finish his contract with HRC next season and move on to Suzuki probably and win on his first attempt.
Then he'll do it again on yet a different bike after that.
He is unstoppable.

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first marc isnt leaving hrc till 10. after that he goes to ducati. much like any f1 guy wanting to go to ferrari). also his brother is going to pramac. he will automatically become untouchable (to me he is already) when he wins on the ducati. where do you come up with suzuki. ducati has audi and marlboro the money is unlimited. honda is dwarfed by volkswagon group.
 
Dovi out of the Q2. For all the criticism Rossi gets for not being at the top of his game at 40, he should be commended for showing more competitiveness than Dovi, who is the one that actually looks like he's on the verge of retirement. He's riding with such disinterest this year and already conceding defeat...

i think he knows its over for this year. marc deflated him
 
Just the usual nonsense.
Marquez is in reality sbsolutely hopeless on a bike obviously. My gran could win on that Repsol Honda sitting backwards. Just look how easy Lorenzo, Pedrosa, Crutchlow & Nakagami can stick it on the podium and win races week in week out (!).


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exactly marc has 185 points (too bad for TX it would be more) the next closest honda rider has 67 points. can anyone tell me the last time another honda besides Marquez has won a race. i think it was crutchlow in austrilia 2 years back. so how is the honda so dominant.
 
Honda probably would have dropped Pedrosa if Stoner hadn’t retired. Marquez gives them the spanish rider Repsol want and both Marquez and Stoner are undeniably better than Pedrosa.

this was the plan
 
ive said this a million times to describe stoner and marquez.

stoner is lebron james. amazing talent but not hungry and not clutch. did lebron win yes but he didnt care if he lost there was always next year. same with stoner always another race or another year i did great im a legend im going fishing

marquez is jordan. hes savage losing isnt an option. he doesnt want to just win he wants to destroy you.

i love stoner but he would never ever be marquez. never had the heart
 
I'd say Stoner had loads of heart, but not where MM's is. MM's heart is in winning. He absolutely loves it and will get into serious dogfights to get the next win. Stoner was different. He definitely didn't care for dogfights but instead, clean racing. He was more into the bike and getting it around the circuit as quickly as possible.
 
first marc isnt leaving hrc till 10. after that he goes to ducati. much like any f1 guy wanting to go to ferrari). also his brother is going to pramac. he will automatically become untouchable (to me he is already) when he wins on the ducati. where do you come up with suzuki. ducati has audi and marlboro the money is unlimited. honda is dwarfed by volkswagon group.
Marc isn't driven by money as much as proving how much better a rider he is to the rest of the field.
He'll go to Suzuki just to prove he can do it on the smallest of the "Big 4".
Then he'll move and do it all again.
This HRC stint is just the beginning.
What records he hasn't already obliterated soon will be.
He'll maybe throw Rossi & co a few scraps.
Marc my words, he's Suzuki bound. And I can't wait.

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first marc isnt leaving hrc till 10. after that he goes to ducati. much like any f1 guy wanting to go to ferrari). also his brother is going to pramac. he will automatically become untouchable (to me he is already) when he wins on the ducati. where do you come up with suzuki. ducati has audi and marlboro the money is unlimited. honda is dwarfed by volkswagon group.

Time and again it’s been shown that money is not everything. Honda’s decades of GP racing experience repeatedly trumps carloads of money. Red Bull is huge and yet progress is dauntingly slow despite KTM’s long racing heritage. And KTM built a really first rate 250 bike for the old F2 series.
 
I’m still not convinced he leaves Honda. Rossi nor Stoner didn’t leave Honda/Yamaha/Ducati because they wanted another challenge. Rossi left Honda and Yamaha over his ego, Stoner left Ducati because he was being thrown under the bus. Marquez is happy, has won when Honda doesn’t have the best bike on the grid and probably feels 0 need to prove anything to the Valeban who are the only ones on the needs to win on another bike train.
 
I'd say Stoner had loads of heart, but not where MM's is. MM's heart is in winning. He absolutely loves it and will get into serious dogfights to get the next win. Stoner was different. He definitely didn't care for dogfights but instead, clean racing. He was more into the bike and getting it around the circuit as quickly as possible.

I think the not wanting to dogfight thing is something of a myth, at Ducati he was riding a bike on which it was well nigh impossible to dogfight, no one else including Rossi who could out dog fight him on the nimble Yamaha could get the Ducati to negotiate corners at all or manage lap times much closer than 2 seconds to Stoner’s.

I agree he was very different to MM, without his ferocious drive/desire to win and erase all records in the sport, and he competed more against the maximum potential of his bike and against the circuit than against other riders. He also didn’t enjoy the Valeban stuff, while in MM’s case it seems to have only increased his motivation, and how he has stood up to same is one of the things I most admire about MM.

No way Stoner would ever have prevailed over MM long term/over a decade or more as MM seems likely to do against current competition imo, but with the form and focus he had in his 2 title years it would have been a contest, also imo. I still find Stoner’s riding style epic and prefer it to MM’s equally laws of physics defying style, and could watch Stoner do laps on his own all day, particularly around PI where it seemed he could just about win on a tricycle.
 
Never said I understood how he did it.

I did however understand how what he did gave him an advantage.

I remember an interview with Espargaro or Bautista not sure, who said the exact same you did.

I followed Stoner out of curiosity and could NOT understand how the .... he rode. that alone is amazing.

You may be thinking Ben Spies who in a video (trying to find it) said something like that 'when he follows a lot of the guys he can see why they are so fast, he may not be able to replicate it on that day but he can see, but Casey does some things on a bike that there is no way I (Spies) could do'

It was said in a video where a number of riders spoke of Stoner after his retirement
 
You may be thinking Ben Spies who in a video (trying to find it) said something like that 'when he follows a lot of the guys he can see why they are so fast, he may not be able to replicate it on that day but he can see, but Casey does some things on a bike that there is no way I (Spies) could do'

It was said in a video where a number of riders spoke of Stoner after his retirement

The interview i saw was in 2009 I think....He was still on the Duc for sure.

And was a Spanish Rider, we used to get a huuuuuuuuge free coverage for motogp in Spain back in the day, sad how times have changed.\
 

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