Thread watched MotoGP: 2024 Round 3 Grand Prix of The Americas April 12-14

[michaelm]

Future looks grey for Marquez:

You can but hope I guess.

 

[mylexicon]

Marquez's peak is over. Crashing at Cota,some 10 corners after hitting P1 was very bad. I think he will not be able to win race any more.

Look at the competition: Ducati strongest but KTM and Aprilia are competitive: Vinales 2 sprint wins and 1 race win, Acosta 2 consecutive podium and can only growing. Marquez has to fight Martin, Bagnaia and Bastinanini in a good Ducati day, and fight Ducati guys + Vinales + Acosta in a bad Ducati day. Race incident/accident with Bagnaia and Martin in Portugal and Cota show that young generation riders always ready to be ruthless with him.

Future looks grey for Marquez: Acosta will be KTM future, Ducati has Bagnaia & many others, Aprilia has Vinales, Yamaha & Honda cannot recover soon.

Marquez is mortal, not washed up.

I’m not a fan, but I’m sympathetic and sad to see him reduced to desperation by a team boss who couldn’t beat him so he bought hydraulic ride height devices from a former Mercedes F1 engineer.

Marquez situation reminds me of the legend of John Henry. Henry was the greatest drillman working on the American railroads, but the ascent of steam power drills threatened his livelihood. In a bid to save his profession, he decided to race a steam drill team to see who could tunnel through a mountain fastest. John Henry won, but the contest was so taxing that it cost him his life.

Marquez is not bound by the laws of physics, but perhaps he is bound by folklore. If he wants to use his skills to win another world title against the ride height machine, it seems like fate may require him to put his career on the line. He will have to accept that winning number seven will require risks and personal sacrifice that will shorten his career. He will have to let go of eight to get to seven.

 

[ApriliaRS250]

He also rode without a big piece of the oh so important aero most of the race and brake problems from the get go. So maybe that caused him to crash

I said cota will show if he still has got it, and despite the result it didnt looked so bad really. I guess we have to wait another round and see what he pulls of at jerez

 

[warthog1]

You can but hope I guess.

A more polite response than was deserved, but it was good.

 

[JPSLotus]

The front brake is why Marc crashed out of the lead.

I thought it was another unforced error, but he was having front brake problems leading up to that.

So I have to reevaluate my thoughts on his performance.

Missing part of the aero, and struggling with a front brake not working and he goes into the lead for a little bit on last years Ducati which is obviously a lesser bike than this years since none of the other GP23 riders seem to know what to do with the bike. He still has it. I don't know if he can win a title again without getting on the right bike, but I'd have to think the Ducati brass are taking note of what he is able to do on a bike against far superior bikes yet again. If he can start stringing Sunday results to go with the Saturday results, he might be able to dig himself out of the points hole, but it'll be difficult to do.

That all being said, I'm not convinced time has passed him by yet.

It would be a critical mistake to underestimate his motivation on the track. It's almost Doohan-esque to watch. Stoner would have quit after Jerez 2020, so would a lot of other riders. He stuck it out and he has shown he can still ride. It's a pity Ducati can't just give him a GP24 because Prosecco and Jorge wouldn't be keeping up with him if he had one of their bikes.

 

[Hollywood]

I do not understand all this doom and gloom for Marquez... He was the fastest Ducati rider on Sunday. Its true he was having issues with the brakes, part of that is probably due to still needing more seat time. Marqez has always been a rider that finds the limit by going past it and often crashing, I remember a couple weekends where he would crash every practice session and still win the race on Sunday.

 

[Keshav]

The front brake is why Marc crashed out of the lead.

I thought it was another unforced error, but he was having front brake problems leading up to that.

So I have to reevaluate my thoughts on his performance.

Missing part of the aero, and struggling with a front brake not working and he goes into the lead for a little bit on last years Ducati which is obviously a lesser bike than this years since none of the other GP23 riders seem to know what to do with the bike. He still has it. I don't know if he can win a title again without getting on the right bike, but I'd have to think the Ducati brass are taking note of what he is able to do on a bike against far superior bikes yet again. If he can start stringing Sunday results to go with the Saturday results, he might be able to dig himself out of the points hole, but it'll be difficult to do.

That all being said, I'm not convinced time has passed him by yet.

It would be a critical mistake to underestimate his motivation on the track. It's almost Doohan-esque to watch. Stoner would have quit after Jerez 2020, so would a lot of other riders. He stuck it out and he has shown he can still ride. It's a pity Ducati can't just give him a GP24 because Prosecco and Jorge wouldn't be keeping up with him if he had one of their bikes.

Look at the way Vinales has rebounded (ok ok, at least for now). If he can give a dominant performance like that, its not unreasonable to think Marquez (always a much more talented rider) who managed last year to podium on the ...... Honda, to still have some surprises up his sleeve. .... me, I LOVED watching him pass by Pecco and Co. on his way to the front. I’d give $100.00 to see the looks on their collective faces at that moment.

 

[JPSLotus]

Look at the way Vinales has rebounded (ok ok, at least for now). If he can give a dominant performance like that, its not unreasonable to think Marquez (always a much more talented rider) who managed last year to podium on the ...... Honda, to still have some surprises up his sleeve. .... me, I LOVED watching him pass by Pecco and Co. on his way to the front. I’d give $100.00 to see the looks on their collective faces at that moment.

This why I'm not willing to write Marc off right now.

He's still ....... fast even not being totally at one with the Ducati. But when he said after the race that he started figuring out how the Ducati really works, I thought that was ominous.

Martin suddenly isn't running his mouth anymore now that he's seen reality and Pecco, I don't rate him highly at all. He's another placeholder world champion that needed the best bike on the grid to do it and still managed to nearly .... it all up. This is not a season he's going to be able to finish back or crash out of races and still expect to be back in contention for the title by the midpoint.

I'd really love to know what is going through Gigi and Tardozzi's heads at this moment.

 

[MdubSTYLIE]

If Marc was on the gp24 he'd be smoking these foo's.

 

[JPSLotus]

If Marc was on the gp24 he'd be smoking these foo's.

I almost wonder if there's any scenario in which Ducati would pony up a GP24 for him.

 

[PRS717]

Marquez's peak is over. Crashing at Cota,some 10 corners after hitting P1 was very bad. I think he will not be able to win race any more.

"Excuse me, sir but your glass appears to be half empty. Allow me to give you a new glass that is half full." One could argue that even leading the race, albeit very shortly, with a bike he's not yet 'one' with and which was missing a wing and had bad brakes, is something positive. The view of his crash from the helicopter indicates the front went very early. Did he lock it up trying to get the brakes to work? He's only going to get better as he develops a feel for the GP23. This is the first time the younger guns have had to race a fully fit Marc on a bike that's not a steaming pile of poo. Pecco's already cracking.

 

[michaelm]

I almost wonder if there's any scenario in which Ducati would pony up a GP24 for him.

Or at least the end of season GP23. As it stands the unimproved/undeveloped GP23 may not be as good as the GP22 as has been discussed.

 

[michaelm]

I almost wonder if there's any scenario in which Ducati would pony up a GP24 for him.

Imo MM has a 2 year window and it will already be difficult this year obviously.

Acosta is coming, and if MM thought FQ was a serious rival while FQ was/is good Acosta already looks better, he rides with considerably more equanimity for a start. I am talking young Acosta vs old MM of course, Acosta would have to be close to the best ever to be comparable with young MM.

This might be good for MM next year actually, Ducati will need the best rider or riders they can get on full factory bikes to combat Acosta, and if Acosta continues to outshine the other KTM riders KTM might like to see what MM can do on a full factory KTM, with MM’s Red Bull connection not unhelpful to his cause as well.

 

[p4p1]

Imo MM has a 2 year window and it will already be difficult this year obviously.

Acosta is coming, and if MM thought FQ was a serious rival while FQ was/is good Acosta already looks better, he rides with considerably more equanimity for a start. I am talking young Acosta vs old MM of course, Acosta would have to be close to the best ever to be comparable with young MM.

This might be good for MM next year actually, Ducati will need the best rider or riders they can get on full factory bikes to combat Acosta, and if Acosta continues to outshine the other KTM riders KTM might like to see what MM can do on a full factory KTM, with MM’s Red Bull connection not unhelpful to his cause as well.

That is a really good point I hadn't considered. If Acosta continues on his current trajectory, Ducati will need to have Marquez on a current spec bike, among others if they wish to continue their dominance. I think Marquez will remain at Ducati, the question remains whether it is in red or blue and how many factory engineers he will have available to him.

 

[MdubSTYLIE]

I almost wonder if there's any scenario in which Ducati would pony up a GP24 for him.

Give him Morbidelli's bike.

 

[Barbedwirebikerr]

Give him Morbidelli's bike.

Ducati already announced Pramac only get one GP25 next season.

 

[michaelm]

Ducati already announced Pramac only get one GP25 next season.

 

[michaelm]

Ducati would be entitled to think pre season and thus far in the season that Pramac are wasting one of their factory bikes if Morbidelli was the best they could get, so perhaps not unreasonable to send the bike elsewhere next year.

 

[mikesbytes]

I’m still guessing that MM will be on a GP25 at Gresini in 25

 

[#22]

The brake issue might have contributed to the crash but it doesn't explain why Marc made several highly risky moves that easily could've resulted in both riders crashing.
He sure seemed way over his head yesterday.

I would argue otherwise. I watched the race again and his move on Martin seems to be because he lost his brakes. I may be wrong of course, but I don't see him making that move through choice.

Absolutely. Not the end of the world.

Maybe he's trying Pecco's strat of having most of his DNFs in the first half of the championship to later have a dominant run. Don't knock it till you try it!

Beat me to it!

Future looks grey for Marquez: Acosta will be KTM future, Ducati has Bagnaia & many others, Aprilia has Vinales, Yamaha & Honda cannot recover soon.

You mean the guy currently 5th in the championship and 30 points off the leader? You really think He and Vinales are a decent match for Acosta? If you do, the future is even greyer for you.

The front brake is why Marc crashed out of the lead.

I thought it was another unforced error, but he was having front brake problems leading up to that.

So I have to reevaluate my thoughts on his performance.

Exactly, he was leading the race on a GP23, which is known to be further from the GP24 than the GP22 was from the 23, with a missing peice of aero and dodgy brakes...

Missing part of the aero, and struggling with a front brake not working and he goes into the lead for a little bit on last years Ducati which is obviously a lesser bike than this years since none of the other GP23 riders seem to know what to do with the bike. He still has it. I don't know if he can win a title again without getting on the right bike, but I'd have to think the Ducati brass are taking note of what he is able to do on a bike against far superior bikes yet again. If he can start stringing Sunday results to go with the Saturday results, he might be able to dig himself out of the points hole, but it'll be difficult to do.

That all being said, I'm not convinced time has passed him by yet.

It would be a critical mistake to underestimate his motivation on the track. It's almost Doohan-esque to watch. Stoner would have quit after Jerez 2020, so would a lot of other riders. He stuck it out and he has shown he can still ride. It's a pity Ducati can't just give him a GP24 because Prosecco and Jorge wouldn't be keeping up with him if he had one of their bikes.

Yep, Fabio just signed with Yamaha for big money, knowing he will unlikely win another title. The fact Marquez dumped big money for a competitive bike shows he is still hungry imo.

I do not understand all this doom and gloom for Marquez... He was the fastest Ducati rider on Sunday. Its true he was having issues with the brakes, part of that is probably due to still needing more seat time. Marqez has always been a rider that finds the limit by going past it and often crashing, I remember a couple weekends where he would crash every practice session and still win the race on Sunday.

Fear and jealousy.

Look at the way Vinales has rebounded (ok ok, at least for now). If he can give a dominant performance like that, its not unreasonable to think Marquez (always a much more talented rider) who managed last year to podium on the ...... Honda, to still have some surprises up his sleeve. .... me, I LOVED watching him pass by Pecco and Co. on his way to the front. I’d give $100.00 to see the looks on their collective faces at that moment.

Likewise!

This why I'm not willing to write Marc off right now.

He's still ....... fast even not being totally at one with the Ducati. But when he said after the race that he started figuring out how the Ducati really works, I thought that was ominous.

Martin suddenly isn't running his mouth anymore now that he's seen reality and Pecco, I don't rate him highly at all. He's another placeholder world champion that needed the best bike on the grid to do it and still managed to nearly .... it all up. This is not a season he's going to be able to finish back or crash out of races and still expect to be back in contention for the title by the midpoint.

Yep, I have long said the same about Pecco and how this yr would be the real test of his legacy, So far, he is failing. Acosta is doing a sterling job but he is still a rookie and I noticed that some riders are racing him a bit harder now, like the wide block pass that Martin did on him in the Sprint.

I'd really love to know what is going through Gigi and Tardozzi's heads at this moment.

Likewise.

Or at least the end of season GP23. As it stands the unimproved/undeveloped GP23 may not be as good as the GP22 as has been discussed.

Good point, and more realistic than a GP24 imo.

Imo MM has a 2 year window and it will already be difficult this year obviously.

Acosta is coming, and if MM thought FQ was a serious rival while FQ was/is good Acosta already looks better, he rides with considerably more equanimity for a start. I am talking young Acosta vs old MM of course, Acosta would have to be close to the best ever to be comparable with young MM.

This might be good for MM next year actually, Ducati will need the best rider or riders they can get on full factory bikes to combat Acosta, and if Acosta continues to outshine the other KTM riders KTM might like to see what MM can do on a full factory KTM, with MM’s Red Bull connection not unhelpful to his cause as well.

I’m still guessing that MM will be on a GP25 at Gresini in 25

It's because of Michael M comment that I'm going to disagree. I think Ducati factory have to offer him a factory seat to fight Acosta alone. However, it's a very good point made that, with Binder (as much as I love him) looking lukewarm at the moment, what are the odds of Red Bull and KTM going all in for an Acosta/Marquez lineup in 2025?