Round 4: Gran Premio Red Bull de España 2017

moto vudu said:

I didn't dismiss Stoner's claim, I just consider it his opinion... not a fact.

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An opinion that was largely vindicated.

Stoner's initial verdict is mentioned here...

To finish first, first you must finish | Motor Sport Magazine

I remember this very well, particularly the circumstances. By the second half of the season it had become the general consensus in the paddock and press that the f & r profiles were in disharmony but in August, it was Lorenzo that credited Stoner with having first identifying this back in the Sepang pre-season test. Here's what he had originally said when asked about how the feeling over the Michelin tyres and why so many riders had crashed in the afternoon of testing.

"There's a little point after probably 45°, that it goes down just a little bit more, that it doesn't seem to match with the rear with some of the profiles that we've tested. And that gives everybody a little bit a nervous feeling, and essentially why people are struggling into Turn 5, a big fast open corner, going in, when the bike goes light, it doesn't like that feeling, and it gets the bike a little nervous, and I think that's when the front wants to break away. Everybody has been having a very similar crash there." The crashes were happening either on the way into the corner, or on the way out, both points where the rider is transitioning across that sensitive area. Other riders will just tell you, "it was a strange crash."

An interesting piece from Kropotkin demonstrating why one should be wary of dismissing feedback from Casey Stoner as mere 'opinion'.

https://motomatters.com/analysis/2016/02/05/casey_stoner_s_ducati_motogp_test_your_q.html

Changing the subject, I have to say that I was astonished by KTM's decision to opt for a screamer configuration. I was recalling the first appearance of the 990 Desmosedici in 2003 which of course was also a screamer - squirming and writhing and desperate to be unleashed within its flimsy trellis cage. Like Ducati, I wasn't at all surprised that KTM elected to work with steel given their pedigree and the rapid changes that can be effected during the development process. Unlike the 990 Ducati, power is a problem and whilst wringing as many ponies as possible from the new plant may slash a few tenths in a straight line, such a difficult combination is hardly beneficial to lap times or progressive feedback. Also perplexing, given that both riders had extensive experience on the big-bang M1. I always feel that thrusting riders into the melee of a moto gp grid on a newly designed racing motorcycle running a screamer engine is a hiding to nothing. I think back to the original M1, the Cube and the ZX-RR - all career wreckers. Small surprise then that they're testing the supposedly softer 'uneven' firing order in the future interest of mechanical grip, corner exit tyre management.

Screw Pol and Bradley's lap times, it sounds .... now.

Good results for a number of riders and teams there and perhaps Honda have found something with all of them in the top 12 within 1.002 seconds, and whilst we have come to expect it from Yamaha to see this from Honda is impressive although it is only practice where so much hinges on timing.

Great confidence building results though for Pedrosa and of course Lorenzo (not to mention the MarcVDS boys) but as usual, the old guy lurking well within striking range and no doubt very comfortable.

Disappointing from Dovi but we all have bad days but this will make his job harder for the race.

Again, just practice but one suspects that there is a lot more confidence in some helmets after that session

Don't know why he didn't try the back brake before.

MotoGP Spain: Rear brake helping Lorenzo tame Ducati | MotoGP 0

danski said:

Don't know why he didn't try the back brake before.

MotoGP Spain: Rear brake helping Lorenzo tame Ducati | MotoGP 0

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Old dog.

At least he recognises that which he now needs to do and is working on it, sure maybe slower than ideal but working on it shows a positive approach (would be interesting to see data for Yamaha to see if all riders use the rear as little as JL).

moto vudu said:

The problems some riders have had isn't proof that the front and rear tire profiles do not match. Stoner didn't claim the profiles for the Bridgestones didn't match, yet many riders had crashes on them which that felt were inexplicable or claimed they didn't know the reason.

I didn't dismiss Stoner's claim, I just consider it his opinion... not a fact.

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Good, I am glad you are finally on board, because yours and JKant's very frequently posted non- evidence based opinions are not fact either, particularly given you guys constantly accuse others of bias, conspiracy theories, having "congealed" an inaccurate consensus etc.

I will however continue to back the opinion of a rider of Stoner's stature who has actually ridden the tyres over yours.

moto vudu said:

Stoner gave his opinion, doesn't make him correct. Lap records don't continue to fall with mismatched front & rear tires. Perhaps the issue was on the GP16 Stoner was testing where the front and rear weren't properly matched. I don't hear Marquez, Rossi, Pedrosa, Crutchlow, or Vinales, claiming the front and rear tire profiles don't match. It's an in-active test rider with the least amount of time on the tires making that claim.

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:spin::spin::spin:
So.... we should value the insight of some code jockey over that of a multiple time world champion?

p4p1 said:

We're my eyes deceiving me or did I see Lorenzo backing it in a little?

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Only way to be certain is to verify that with Barry.

*****BREAKING NEWS*****

We go to Wolf Blitzer in the Situation Room...



Wolf: Well I'm here with some breaking news on this newly developing story. An internet poster on a backwater internet forum that discusses motorcycle racing has made the bold claim double world champion Casey Stoner who retired in 2012 knows less than he does. We've been able to get Mr. Vudu on the satellite feed to discuss his shocking views. Mr. Vudu is an IT worker who spends a lot of time on computers. Now, we go to Texas for a word with Mr. Vudu.



Wolf: Do you care to elaborate Mr. Vudu? No? I think we're having satellite feed troubles...we'll be back after these messages from our sponsors.

Cracking lap from Pedrosa gets him pole just barely. Marquez's lap was sensational, too bad he couldn't pull off the pole with that lap.

Honda front row lockout...will be an interesting race tomorrow no doubt.

JPSLotus said:

*****BREAKING NEWS*****

We go to Wolf Blitzer in the Situation Room...

Wolf: Well I'm here with some breaking news on this newly developing story. An internet poster on a backwater internet forum that discusses motorcycle racing has made the bold claim double world champion Casey Stoner who retired in 2012 knows less than he does. We've been able to get Mr. Vudu on the satellite feed to discuss his shocking views. Mr. Vudu is an IT worker who spends a lot of time on computers. Now, we go to Texas for a word with Mr. Vudu.

Wolf: Do you care to elaborate Mr. Vudu? No? I think we're having satellite feed troubles...we'll be back after these messages from our sponsors.

Click to expand...

Fake news! Everybody knows that Vudu has the best information. Everything he says will be really really great.
He's so smart that he doesn't need to know anything or rely on mere logic or for that matter reality.
He's so really really smart. After all he won all his arguments and you didn't. So he must be right.
Watch out, he's draining the swamp!

Its okay to be off topic if you guys are funny. Carry on.


Hondas seem to have this one on lock as long as everything goes to course.

I'm really interested to read about what Honda has done for this weekend with their bikes. I'm inclined to think that Jerez test they did must have been very beneficial with getting a good setup for this circuit. But perhaps they've made even bigger strides with getting the ECU dialed in.

I was hoping to see Jorge make it to the second row, but just didn't have enough. Overall he has looked very impressive so far for the weekend. It really brings to light how important using the rear brake can be, and in particular the Ducati. Only question now is what the tire life will be for the race. There's no doubt MM will be going Hard/Hard since temps will be up further, as will most of the Honda's...talk Pedrosa may go hard on the front.

Hoping for an exciting race tomorrow. How good would it be to see Pedrosa and Marquez having a good battle?

I reckon Dani is going to remind Marc he isn't just a CE11 type teammate, and hopefully a win this early in the season will boost his confidence.
The Yamaha's seem to be on the back foot here but Sunday may be a different story depending on what they work on tonight.
I think Lorenzo will start well but fade from the middle of the race.

Arrabbiata1 said:

An opinion that was largely vindicated.

Stoner's initial verdict is mentioned here...

To finish first, first you must finish | Motor Sport Magazine

I remember this very well, particularly the circumstances. By the second half of the season it had become the general consensus in the paddock and press that the f & r profiles were in disharmony but in August, it was Lorenzo that credited Stoner with having first identifying this back in the Sepang pre-season test. Here's what he had originally said when asked about how the feeling over the Michelin tyres and why so many riders had crashed in the afternoon of testing.

"There's a little point after probably 45°, that it goes down just a little bit more, that it doesn't seem to match with the rear with some of the profiles that we've tested. And that gives everybody a little bit a nervous feeling, and essentially why people are struggling into Turn 5, a big fast open corner, going in, when the bike goes light, it doesn't like that feeling, and it gets the bike a little nervous, and I think that's when the front wants to break away. Everybody has been having a very similar crash there." The crashes were happening either on the way into the corner, or on the way out, both points where the rider is transitioning across that sensitive area. Other riders will just tell you, "it was a strange crash."

An interesting piece from Kropotkin demonstrating why one should be wary of dismissing feedback from Casey Stoner as mere 'opinion'.

https://motomatters.com/analysis/2016/02/05/casey_stoner_s_ducati_motogp_test_your_q.html

Click to expand...

No, Stoner's opinion has not been largely validated. Casey Stoner does not know more about designing race tires than Michelin engineers. The front and rear profiles are exactly how Michelin wants them. The riders shouldn't have thought they could ride Michelins exactly the same way as Bridgestones. There wouldn't be much point in switching tire manufacturers if the new manufacturer was forced to give their tires the same characteristics as the previous manufacturer. If the Michelin front doesn't have as much grip as the Bridgestone front, that's GREAT! That's the beautiful part about it, the riders have to adapt their styles to a different tire. It's like hopping out of a Porsche and into a Ferrari then complaining the Ferrari is defective because it doesn't drive exactly like the Porsche.

You should always be wary of the opinion from anyone. Einstein wasn't even always right and Stoner definitely isn't always right.

Keshav said:

:spin::spin::spin:
So.... we should value the insight of some code jockey over that of a multiple time world champion?

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A lot of active MotoGP riders aren't echoing Stoner's opinion. It's foolish to simply accept whatever Stoner says as fact without seeking other sources to verify his claims.

JPSLotus said:

*****BREAKING NEWS*****

We go to Wolf Blitzer in the Situation Room...

Wolf: Well I'm here with some breaking news on this newly developing story. An internet poster on a backwater internet forum that discusses motorcycle racing has made the bold claim double world champion Casey Stoner who retired in 2012 knows less than he does. We've been able to get Mr. Vudu on the satellite feed to discuss his shocking views. Mr. Vudu is an IT worker who spends a lot of time on computers. Now, we go to Texas for a word with Mr. Vudu.

Wolf: Do you care to elaborate Mr. Vudu? No? I think we're having satellite feed troubles...we'll be back after these messages from our sponsors.

Click to expand...

Funny, but considering you like to throw e-punches when you aren't able to handle them in return... perhaps you should just stick to analyzing on-track action. Would hate for you to have to hit that speed dial button for a moderator.

moto vudu said:

Funny, but considering you like to throw e-punches when you aren't able to handle them in return... perhaps you should just stick to analyzing on-track action. Would hate for you to have to hit that speed dial button for a moderator.

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I can handle your punches just fine.

So what are your thoughts on the fact that neither rider you have your tribal banner attached failed to make the front row of the grid? When none of your boys wind up on the front of the grid, you suddenly don't have a whole lot to say. I thought you were a fan of the racing, or is it only exciting when you feel assured of your opportunity to glory-hunt?

danski said:

I reckon Dani is going to remind Marc he isn't just a CE11 type teammate, and hopefully a win this early in the season will boost his confidence.
The Yamaha's seem to be on the back foot here but Sunday may be a different story depending on what they work on tonight.
I think Lorenzo will start well but fade from the middle of the race.

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I wonder if Dani will have the race pace or not. Don't mind him winning tomorrow, but it would be nice to see him have a good battle for the lead. Feels like awhile since we've seen that out of him.

JPSLotus said:

I can handle your punches just fine.

So what are your thoughts on the fact that neither rider you have your tribal banner attached failed to make the front row of the grid? When none of your boys wind up on the front of the grid, you suddenly don't have a whole lot to say. I thought you were a fan of the racing, or is it only exciting when you feel assured of your opportunity to glory-hunt?

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I simply think they have some work to do overnight and in tomorrow's warm-up. What happens on Sunday will always be more important than practice and qualifying. It's all about race pace and managing the tires over race distance.

moto vudu said:

I simply think they have some work to do overnight and in tomorrow's warm-up. What happens on Sunday will always be more important than practice and qualifying. It's all about race pace and managing the tires over race distance.

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Indeed they do. What do you feel their prospects are for successfully making this a less than certain Honda victory?