Round 13: 2016 San Marino Grand Prix - Misano World Circuit Marco Simoncelli

moto vudu · Sep 10, 2016

JPSLotus said:
The rear tire under acceleration has a wider contact patch...contact patch was within the track limits. Close to the edge, but did not exceed. His front tire was already up off the ground under acceleration.

Picture shows you're wrong. Like I said, nothing you can type will change the pixels in the pic. You can keep trying if you're bored enough.

JPSLotus · Sep 10, 2016

Something else you may not know Vudu, the track limit in the spot where Lorenzo was, is not perfectly straight. You can see in the picture or video that it is a bit wider to the left in the spot where Lorenzo was, that you think he was exceeding the limits.

MdubSTYLIE · Sep 10, 2016

Jorge Lorenzo motogp's human thermometer. I appreciate that I can tell the exact weather at the circuit judging only by where JLo places in practice, quali, and race,

JPSLotus · Sep 10, 2016

Enjoy Vudu...if he really did exceed the track limits, race direction would have taken it away. Rossi wasn't even the first rider of the day to have his time canceled.

moto vudu · Sep 10, 2016

JPSLotus said:
Enjoy Vudu...if he really did exceed the track limits, race direction would have taken it away. Rossi wasn't even the first rider of the day to have his time canceled.

Yep, clearly shows he exceeded the track limits, but RD didn't take it away. Lorenzo would still be on pole either way, he just wouldn't have been the first under 1:32 today.

yamfan · Sep 10, 2016

moto vudu said:
Hahaha, Jorge's rear tire exceeded the limit MORE than his front. I thought you'd at least try to make a case for the front contact patch!!

The track curves outward underneath Lorenzo's bike as its on the apex of the corner. The blurry still you've posted just about shows this. True, if you assume a straight line where Lorenzo is he looks out, but he's actually marginally inside as he was leaned over further a bit earlier when his front wheel came through the area, bringing the contact area of his tyre further inwards at the time.
We all see what we want to see, but RD don't just give things away like track records where there is doubt. If they were sure he was out I'm positive they'd have cancelled the lap, especially as he was leading anyway.

JPSLotus · Sep 10, 2016

moto vudu said:
Yep, clearly shows he exceeded the track limits, but RD didn't take it away. Lorenzo would still be on pole either way, he just wouldn't have been the first under 1:32 today.

There wasn't any exceeding of the limits except in your own mind.

JPSLotus · Sep 10, 2016

yamfan said:
The track curves outward underneath Lorenzo's bike as its on the apex of the corner. The blurry still you've posted just about shows this. True, if you assume a straight line where Lorenzo is he looks out, but he's actually marginally inside as he was leaned over further a bit earlier when his front wheel came through the area, bringing the contact area of his tyre further inwards at the time.
We all see what we want to see, but RD don't just give things away like track records where there is doubt. If they were sure he was out I'm positive they'd have cancelled the lap, especially as he was leading anyway.

The thing Vudu doesn't quite understanding is the camera is shooting from an angle. There's perspective distortion at play here. Makes it look like Lorenzo went wider than he really did.

moto vudu · Sep 10, 2016

yamfan said:
The track curves outward underneath Lorenzo's bike as its on the apex of the corner. The blurry still you've posted just about shows this. True, if you assume a straight line where Lorenzo is he looks out, but he's actually marginally inside as he was leaned over further a bit earlier when his front wheel came through the area, bringing the contact area of his tyre further inwards at the time.
We all see what we want to see, but RD don't just give things away like track records where there is doubt. If they were sure he was out I'm positive they'd have cancelled the lap, especially as he was leading anyway.

We're not discussing the apex of the corner, this occurs after Lorenzo exited the corner. Yes, there is a slight curve in the rumble-strip (track edge), but Lorenzo still got both his contract patches over the limit.

michaelm · Sep 10, 2016

moto vudu said:
Yep, clearly shows he exceeded the track limits, but RD didn't take it away. Lorenzo would still be on pole either way, he just wouldn't have been the first under 1:32 today.

So Jorge by your argument fraudulently and due to prejudice on Race Direction's part only got pole by 0.138 seconds rather than 0.338 seconds.

You guys really don't have much to cling to these days do you?

moto vudu · Sep 10, 2016

JPSLotus said:
The thing Vudu doesn't quite understanding is the camera is shooting from an angle. There's perspective distortion at play here. Makes it look like Lorenzo went wider than he really did.

Replace Lorenzo with Rossi and you'd be screaming about RD getting it wrong and Rossi getting away with a lap that shouldn't have counted.

GeniusAtTwerk · Sep 10, 2016

michaelm said:
It is a matter of record anywhere you care to look over the years 2006 to 2012.

If you want to quibble Stoner was on a Ducati, or on an LCR Honda with discarded Michelin tyres for 5 of those 7 years, as against 2 on a Ducati for Rossi and 5 on a Yamaha, and Stoner's record against any and all Ducati riders over those years is 25:1, and 25:0 in dry races or races in which he did not only need to finish ahead of Rossi to win a world championship.

It is also the case Rossi did not get within 1.5 seconds of Stoner's best time from the immediately preceding race weekend in the 2010 Valencia post season test, at the same time that Stoner was immediately faster than Dani Pedrosa on the 2010 Honda.

I'm not denying that 3 years of GOAT-like performance pace and also results wise (even though 08 and 09 were inconsistent due to various factors) is a huge plus for his case. In 2011 he had then positioned himself to make push for GOAThood but let his supporters down. 2011 he did what he had to, on a completely dominant Honda after Pedrosa got taken out it would've been incredible had he not won the title. Telling that Lorenzo was able to challenge so long into the season. Then next year on the best bike again he was behind Dani and Lorenzo before taking himself out and then retired at 27. After which his successor Marquez has proven himself to be clearly superior.

Even not retiring his level wasn't really enough to match Marquez and Rossi but retiring so early obviously takes him out of any discussions as the massive lack of longevity hurts him severely.

moto vudu · Sep 10, 2016

michaelm said:
So Jorge by your argument fraudulently and due to prejudice on Race Direction's part only got pole by 0.138 seconds rather than 0.338 seconds.

You guys really don't have much to cling to these days do you?

You don't do very well debating on here without trying to twist the words of others to make something you can argue against. I already stated that I didn't care about RD not scrubbing the lap, but I'm posting because Lorenzo DID exceed the track limit and was given a pass. RD did him a favor, that record lap COULD have been rightfully scrubbed.

JPSLotus · Sep 10, 2016

moto vudu said:
Replace Lorenzo with Rossi and you'd be screaming about RD getting it wrong and Rossi getting away with a lap that shouldn't have counted.

Resorting to a hypothetical scenario that can never be proven either way is the sign of your failing argument.

GeniusAtTwerk · Sep 10, 2016

michaelm said:
As well as unfamiliarity with the logical process, memory is obviously a problem for you, but (alas for you) not for me.

You can attempt to shift the ground all you like as is your wont, and doubtless will now follow the script from the Monty Python argument sketch, but you very specifically proclaimed a 37 year old Rossi superior to recent/current day Jorge Lorenzo.

You seem confused again.

Rossi > Marquez (clear after he wins this year) > Lorenzo > Stoner in terms of greatness.

Rossi > Lorenzo since 2014.

In different posts I'm talking about different things, go figure.

moto vudu · Sep 10, 2016

JPSLotus said:
Resorting to a hypothetical scenario that can never be proven either way is the sign of your failing argument.

But, but... it's the camera angle.. it's making it look like Lorenzo is wide but he's actually a foot inside the track limit. No bro, that's a sign of your failing argument. You're at a MAJOR disadvantage because of a screenshot and gif that you posted clearly showing you're wrong but you aren't man enough to admit it.

GeniusAtTwerk · Sep 10, 2016

JPSLotus said:
Enjoy Vudu...if he really did exceed the track limits, race direction would have taken it away. Rossi wasn't even the first rider of the day to have his time canceled.

Wait, you are seriously arguing his contact patches weren't outside the track there? My goodness, and the funniest thing is that it doesn't even matter.

michaelm · Sep 10, 2016

moto vudu said:
Replace Lorenzo with Rossi and you'd be screaming about RD getting it wrong and Rossi getting away with a lap that shouldn't have counted.

No actually. I don't really care whether Lorenzo gets pole when he has competitive pace, he almost invariably jumps his main rivals at the start from anywhere on the front 2 rows in such circumstances.

JPSLotus · Sep 10, 2016

moto vudu said:
But, but... it's the camera angle.. it's making it look like Lorenzo is wide but he's actually a foot inside the track limit. No bro, that's a sign of your failing argument. You're at a MAJOR disadvantage because of a screenshot and gif that you posted clearly showing you're wrong but you aren't man enough to admit it.

Who said he is a foot inside the track?

Resorting to straw men now because you have nothing else to go on?

I already stated he was close to the edge yes, but he never put two wheels off fully.

Try again Vudu.

povol · Sep 10, 2016

moto vudu said:
We're not discussing the apex of the corner, this occurs after Lorenzo exited the corner. Yes, there is a slight curve in the rumble-strip (track edge), but Lorenzo still got both his contract patches over the limit.

I wasnt going to make any judgement from a still shot at an angle, but the video just posted clearly shows Lorenzo did not violate track limits. Sometimes you can come off as the bigger man if you admit when you are wrong.

Round 13: 2016 San Marino Grand Prix - Misano World Circuit Marco Simoncelli

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