Round 13: 2016 San Marino Grand Prix - Misano World Circuit Marco Simoncelli

GeniusAtTwerk · Sep 17, 2016

michaelm said:
What, that you don't understand the reference? I don't think you have sufficient insight to be embarassed.

I will spell it out for you. You approach any discussion of Rossi as though it was a theological debate, and you a medieval theologian.

I don't understand the reference, but that wasn't the reason I am embarrassed for you. It's the lack of response to any of my points I make in my posts yet quoting me for some reason that was the embarrassing part.

GeniusAtTwerk · Sep 17, 2016

Richy56 said:
After last year Rossi is beyond dirty, I would put him on a par with a dogs scrotum

Roger that.

danski · Sep 17, 2016

Richy56 said:
After last year Rossi is beyond dirty, I would put him on a par with a dogs scrotum

Dogs scrotums are pretty clean, they're always licking them.

Richy56 · Sep 17, 2016

Daniboy said:
Dogs scrotums are pretty clean, they're always licking them.

Not Rossis dogs, his dogs can't reach their scrotums their egos are too big.

Gaz · Sep 17, 2016

Daniboy said:
Dogs scrotums are pretty clean, they're always licking them.

My dogs have no scrotums, just a place where they once were ............. and like all males, I shed a tear for their loss

Yeah, ...... show off .......s they are.

Damn it, I am sure that if man could lick his scrotum then many men would do so ............ ermmm, only as an experiment mind

Gaz · Sep 17, 2016

GeniusAtTwerk said:
I'm not making any distinction between aggressiveness/dirtyness of Rossi and Marquez or other riders, Lorenzo is the one who SEEMS to make that distinction, something that Rossi (and me) opposed to. I don't think any riders currently are dirty (as in their defining trait), to me Marquez seems to be the one who skirts around the edges of that definition the most, Rossi probably 2nd.

I would put them on par just that one is more overt about his 'riding on the edge' whilst the other is far more subtle and has the benefit of being a media darling well loved within the sport and thus, like many people in similar positions, often their flaw or actions are excused because of their legend.

But that said, I am glad that you did not throw Ianonne into the mix (as some have in some forums) as for mine, he is not dirty just maniacal and somewhat uncaring of consequence (was going to type stupid in riding terms but that may be read to harsh)

p4p1 · Sep 17, 2016

I don't believe Marquez to be a dirty rider, he is hard and aggressive but other than his rookie year I don't remember any *valid* complaints about him being dirty. Iannone is probably the most dangerous man on the grid but I don't see him as dirty either just as Gaz said somewhat maniacal on his approach(though I believe him when he said he wasn't trying to pass Dovi and I give him a pass for the Lorenzo crash for no other reason than Lorenzo was going just way slower than anyone expected and it wa terrible timing when he came up to Lorenzo.).

Rossi however is dirty IMO and we don't need to rehash old stuff as to why he is.

danski · Sep 17, 2016

p4p1 said:
I don't believe Marquez to be a dirty rider, he is hard and aggressive but other than his rookie year I don't remember any *valid* complaints about him being dirty. Iannone is probably the most dangerous man on the grid but I don't see him as dirty either just as Gaz said somewhat maniacal on his approach(though I believe him when he said he wasn't trying to pass Dovi and I give him a pass for the Lorenzo crash for no other reason than Lorenzo was going just way slower than anyone expected and it wa terrible timing when he came up to Lorenzo.).

Rossi however is dirty IMO and we don't need to rehash old stuff as to why he is.

Yes but as soon as you say stuff like that it will always end up in a rehash , if you look at every overtake through all the years what % would you end up with as clean moves and what % aggressive/unclean?

p4p1 · Sep 17, 2016

GeniusAtTwerk said:
What do you mean? I meant that Rossi finding Marquez' riding unacceptable/dirty 1 or 2 races out of 65 doesn't mean when Rossi calls a random pass Marquezesque that pass is dirty in his opinion. Especially when in the 1 or 2 races in question Marquez' overall aggressiveness wasn't the issue.

Misunderstanding on my part, I don't think Rossi thought it was a dirty move. I believe he wasn't happy about the aggressiveness of the pass which was his reason to call it a Marquez pass. Of course we all could be reading too much into what was a throwaway statement(and arguably correct as Pedrosa isn't known of an aggressive riding style) but Rossi has generally chosen his words with the media very carefully and I don't think that this is any different.

Lorenzo 'sooking' has been blown so far out of proportion as he didn't bring it up, he said to the reporter that if he brought it up then he must think it was too aggressive. He then states that he thought Rossi had the pace to get past him and didn't need to make such an aggressive pass but it's Rossis style to pass aggressively and other guys overtake cleaner. All true, as stated earlier in this thread Pedrosa and Rossis reaction to similar comments were very similar these guys know each other very well and I think the way Pedrosa reacted to what Rossi said is a pretty good way of deducing just how the comment was meant.

p4p1 · Sep 17, 2016

Daniboy said:
Yes but as soon as you say stuff like that it will always end up in a rehash , if you look at every overtake through all the years what % would you end up with as clean moves and what % aggressive/unclean?

If I walk past 1000 girls a year but .... one I'm a rapist.

We can talk about Sepang last year obviously, I believe but obviously it's not concrete that someone as experienced as Rossi may have had an idea of where Marquez was in Argentina. Laguna 2013 is a big one for me that gets overlooked because Marquez due to lack and godlike talent managed to not crash after being pushed off the track despite being in front. 2011 Jerez, 2010 Motegi I'm sure other guys can name way more races than I can. He kicked a bike in the smaller classes.

Rossi has also been very dirty off track as well using the media and fans against his rivals.

danski · Sep 17, 2016

p4p1 said:
If I walk past 1000 girls a year but .... one I'm a rapist.

We can talk about Sepang last year obviously, I believe but obviously it's not concrete that someone as experienced as Rossi may have had an idea of where Marquez was in Argentina. Laguna 2013 is a big one for me that gets overlooked because Marquez due to lack and godlike talent managed to not crash after being pushed off the track despite being in front. 2011 Jerez, 2010 Motegi I'm sure other guys can name way more races than I can. He kicked a bike in the smaller classes.

Rossi has also been very dirty off track as well using the media and fans against his rivals.

So 4-5 out of hundreds maybe over a thousand is not a massive percentage is it? As in the vast majority of moves are clean. Some of your examples are questionable too, Jerez 2011 would have been a clean pass had he stayed on , motegi was a straight up fight in which neither rider backed down.

Gaz · Sep 17, 2016

Daniboy said:
So 4-5 out of hundreds maybe over a thousand is not a massive percentage is it? As in the vast majority of moves are clean. Some of your examples are questionable too, Jerez 2011 would have been a clean pass had he stayed on , motegi was a straight up fight in which neither rider backed down.

Jerez was an accident caused by an overambitious move ............ simply put, Rossi ...... up, no more no less.

Motegi is a different matter where one rider decided to involve himself in the championship of a second rider, his team mate no less when the rider involving himself was already well out of contention due to injury.

danski · Sep 17, 2016

Gaz said:
Jerez was an accident caused by an overambitious move ............ simply put, Rossi ...... up, no more no less.

Motegi is a different matter where one rider decided to involve himself in the championship of a second rider, his team mate no less when the rider involving himself was already well out of contention due to injury.

Dani, the nearest challenger was out of the race which made Lorenzo's decision to engage in a bare knuckle fight a bit strange , he could have rode behind Rossi in a safe 4th and still made good points on Dani. Rossi returning from his leg break had a lot to prove and shouldn't really have been censured by Lin Jarvis for his 'crime'

JPSLotus · Sep 17, 2016

Daniboy said:
Dani, the nearest challenger was out of the race which made Lorenzo's decision to engage in a bare knuckle fight a bit strange , he could have rode behind Rossi in a safe 4th and still made good points on Dani. Rossi returning from his leg break had a lot to prove and shouldn't really have been censured by Lin Jarvis for his 'crime'

According to Rossi, you don't race people who are involved in a championship.

Regardless of points lead, Lorenzo was involved in the championship, whereas Rossi was not.

Double standards in play.

Why should Lorenzo ride to a safe 4th if he doesn't want to?

danski · Sep 17, 2016

JPSLotus said:
According to Rossi, you don't race people who are involved in a championship.

Regardless of points lead, Lorenzo was involved in the championship, whereas Rossi was not.

Double standards in play.

Why should Lorenzo ride to a safe 4th if he doesn't want to?

Because after the first few passes and repasses he should have realised Rossi was not going to lie down, Lorenzo was nearly 3 race wins ahead so had a very comfortable margin over Dani , his 4th place meant he could finish top 10 in Sepang and win the title.

Gaz · Sep 17, 2016

Daniboy said:
Dani, the nearest challenger was out of the race which made Lorenzo's decision to engage in a bare knuckle fight a bit strange , he could have rode behind Rossi in a safe 4th and still made good points on Dani. Rossi returning from his leg break had a lot to prove and shouldn't really have been censured by Lin Jarvis for his 'crime'

Sorry Dani but .........

Rossi rode with his ego and allowed that to control his actions on the track.

Lorenzo had NOT won the world title at the time and Rossi should have ridden for Yamaha (no way would Rossi ever ride for a team mate) and not gotten himself involved in a dog fight with Lorenzo. Sure he could have passed if he wanted but he should have done so with NO risk to his team mate and the likely Yamaha world champion.

We have seen the feelings of Rossi with regards to situations similar to that of Lorenzo in 2010 and yet somehow, Lorenzo seems again to be the bad guy for wanting or expecting that his team mate would be less aggressive in passing if/when it occurred.

Jarvis was right to censure Rossi and really he should have been more public in his comments as it was petulance extreme to put at risk a likely Yamaha world champion, but it was also thoroughly expected at the time for the dummy had already been spat ............ and that dummy was NOT spat by Lorenzo

Gaz · Sep 17, 2016

Daniboy said:
Because after the first few passes and repasses he should have realised Rossi was not going to lie down, Lorenzo was nearly 3 race wins ahead so had a very comfortable margin over Dani , his 4th place meant he could finish top 10 in Sepang and win the title.

It isn't about the passes though Dani, it is about the aggression of the passes within the larger circumstance of a world championship at stake.

Rossi did collide with Lorenzo on at least one of the passes ........... unnecessarily so and as such it could have resulted in a fall and injury to Lorenzo which may have led to a tighter world championship, or worse (from Yamaha's perspective), a lost world title.

You can say all you want that the title was all but wrapped up, but try telling Mick Doohan that titles cannot be lost through injury.

Excuses abound for Rossi but as we saw in 2015, what is good for the goose is definitely not good for the gander.

Edit. I should add that my views on the issue are the same today as they were at the time and have not been altered by the 2015 shenanigans

JPSLotus · Sep 17, 2016

Daniboy said:
Because after the first few passes and repasses he should have realised Rossi was not going to lie down, Lorenzo was nearly 3 race wins ahead so had a very comfortable margin over Dani , his 4th place meant he could finish top 10 in Sepang and win the title.

Gaz said what I would have like to pretty well.

Lorenzo said the following post-race...

“This was a big battle between Valentino and I, two warriors with the killer instinct. I have to say that at some points I do not think he was completely fair, we were both on the limit but some of his moves were maybe a bit too much and he touched me and pushed me wide when I don’t think it was right.”

“We are teammates, I am fighting for the Riders’ Championship but we are both fighting for the Teams’ and Manufacturers’ Championship as well and we have to remember this.”

In fact, Rossi was warned by Furusawa about it...

The 23-year-old was so angered that he complained to Yamaha management and Rossi was told by senior race boss Masao Furusawa not to adopt similar tactics in a fight against his team-mate in the future

Sepang MotoGP: Jorge Lorenzo silent on Motegi row | MCN

Yes Rossi had something to prove, but he did it in his usual petulant and stupid manner that again put another rider at risk for nothing more than a 3rd place.

yamfan · Sep 17, 2016

JPSLotus said:
Gaz said what I would have like to pretty well.

Lorenzo said the following post-race...

In fact, Rossi was warned by Furusawa about it...

Yes Rossi had something to prove, but he did it in his usual petulant and stupid manner that again put another rider at risk for nothing more than a 3rd place.

Indeed, Rossi came back with his famous "if I'm not allowed to race I might as well stay at home". Double standards indeed, given his 2015 call for riders to stay out of the championship.
During the 2010 Motegi race, Rossi showed his sinister side by attempting to run Lorenzo off the track, one could argue he was trying to injure him and put him out of the championship. Although it's pure conjecture, given his recent behaviour it's not beyond doubt.

danski · Sep 17, 2016

yamfan said:
Indeed, Rossi came back with his famous "if I'm not allowed to race I might as well stay at home". Double standards indeed, given his 2015 call for riders to stay out of the championship.
During the 2010 Motegi race, Rossi showed his sinister side by attempting to run Lorenzo off the track, one could argue he was trying to injure him and put him out of the championship. Although it's pure conjecture, given his recent behaviour it's not beyond doubt.

I think everyone can agree that his 2015 call was part of his meltdown and pure fantasy on his part. I disagree completely that he would attempt to injure Lorenzo.

Round 13: 2016 San Marino Grand Prix - Misano World Circuit Marco Simoncelli

GeniusAtTwerk

GeniusAtTwerk

danski

Richy56

Gaz

Gaz

p4p1

danski

p4p1

p4p1

danski

Gaz

danski

JPSLotus

danski

Gaz

Gaz

JPSLotus

yamfan

danski

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