Round 13: 2016 San Marino Grand Prix - Misano World Circuit Marco Simoncelli

p4p1 · Sep 16, 2016

moto vudu said:
No, you listened to the post race conference and put words in Rossi's mouth to create something you could be "outraged" about. You didn't state that Rossi said Pedrosa's pass was "too aggressive' like it was YOUR opinion, you posted it like it was Rossi's. You're entitled to your opinions, just don't try to make pass off your opinions as Rossi's.

It is fair to assume that if Rossi calls something a Marquez pass something he was so upset about during one race that he punted him off the track it's not a complement and a back handed passive aggressive complaint.

Much like you assume that Lorenzo saying its Rossis style to overtake cleanly and other riders pass cleaner was Lorenzo saying Rossi is a dirty rider. Which he is see Sepang 2015.

GeniusAtTwerk · Sep 16, 2016

Quoting myself: "But when Rossi brought up Marquez at Silverstone, Lorenzo said "it's your opinion", implying Lorenzo thought there was a difference."

Rossi's move being too aggressive and difference between him and a rider objectively thought of as one of the most aggressive passers in the grid, if not the most, making extremely aggressive moves. Within that context it doesn't seem Lorenzo is especially accepting of Rossi's riding at least.

GeniusAtTwerk · Sep 16, 2016

p4p1 said:
It is fair to assume that if Rossi calls something a Marquez pass something he was so upset about during one race that he punted him off the track it's not a complement and a back handed passive aggressive complaint.

Much like you assume that Lorenzo saying its Rossis style to overtake cleanly and other riders pass cleaner was Lorenzo saying Rossi is a dirty rider. Which he is see Sepang 2015.

1 race out of 65 or so, compared to Lorenzo generalizing Rossi's passing compared to other riders.

Jumkie · Sep 16, 2016

p4p1 said:
It is fair to assume that if Rossi calls something a Marquez pass something he was so upset about during one race that he punted him off the track it's not a complement and a back handed passive aggressive complaint.

Much like you assume that Lorenzo saying its Rossis style to overtake cleanly and other riders pass cleaner was Lorenzo saying Rossi is a dirty rider. Which he is see Sepang 2015.

On both counts Vudu is ....... He painted himself into a corner trying to defend Rossi using his standard...double standard. Haha.

If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.

Gaz · Sep 16, 2016

GeniusAtTwerk said:
Rossi's move being too aggressive and difference between him and a rider objectively thought of as one of the most aggressive passers in the grid, if not the most, making extremely aggressive moves. Within that context it doesn't seem Lorenzo is especially accepting of Rossi's riding at least.

Interesting that you compare Marquez as someone who is 'objectively thought of as one of the most aggressive passers in the grid' as a way of trying to deflect any criticism of Rossi when Marquez is just as objectively recognised as the one rider on the grid who is more like Rossi than is any other rider.

Since he entered MotoGP (and to a degree prior) all comparisons were between MM and VR in terms of marketability, riding and yes, their aggressiveness and single minded determination on a bike.

To call Rossi aggressive is (IMO) not incorrect as he is one of the most aggressive riders out there. If he sees a gap and he wants to get past then he will go for that gap, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't work (Jerez) but he will make the effort. It is just as recognised that when trying to pass Rossi you will be made to work harder than you will with many other riders (assuming that it is a fight for position and VR has no issue to slow him) as it is Rossi's style to defend his position and he does it better than many.

Without aggression these guys could not and would not have achieved that which they have as they will temper aggression and use it to their advantage. Rossi is a master at the hard racing pass and has been for years (again, sometimes they go wrong) and there are many examples where he has made another rider decide to fight or cede position.

Point is, to call a rider aggressive is in many ways a compliment and does not have to correlate to a dirty rider (IMO) just as to call a rider clean, does not have to correlate to a weaker rider.

The point for mine from the weekend was more that Esparagaro and Lorenzo have started to 'call out' Rossi which to me indicates an undercurrent of discontent within the paddock with some riders now no longer being intimidated by the shadow cast.

I have enjoyed so the various forums of late who are saying that Rossi is entitled to an opinion but other riders are not which is in itself an indicator of the state of affairs of the sport

p4p1 · Sep 16, 2016

GeniusAtTwerk said:
1 race out of 65 or so, compared to Lorenzo generalizing Rossi's passing compared to other riders.

It's not Rossis only transgression though it's his worst.

Iamapony · Sep 16, 2016

What are we to make of this piece here? While I find the title misleading, it seems this throws a wrench into all kinds of opinions on various sides. Simon Claims Marc thinks Jorge is a girlie-man and Rossi is his squeeze. Or something like that.
(If it is a re-post, I have no idea how I missed it.)

moto vudu · Sep 16, 2016

p4p1 said:
It is fair to assume that if Rossi calls something a Marquez pass something he was so upset about during one race that he punted him off the track it's not a complement and a back handed passive aggressive complaint.

Much like you assume that Lorenzo saying its Rossis style to overtake cleanly and other riders pass cleaner was Lorenzo saying Rossi is a dirty rider. Which he is see Sepang 2015.

You can assume anything you want, doesn't mean you're correct. Rossi said Pedrosa's pass was GOOD. There's nothing back-handed or passive-aggressive about it... good pass! Rossi would/will do the same to Pedrosa if he needs to. It's racing.

I'm not assuming anything about Lorenzo, in fact I never made comments about what he said until Jumkie tried to drag me into his weak debate.

birdman · Sep 16, 2016

moto vudu said:
No, you listened to the post race conference and put words in Rossi's mouth to create something you could be "outraged" about. You didn't state that Rossi said Pedrosa's pass was "too aggressive' like it was YOUR opinion, you posted it like it was Rossi's. You're entitled to your opinions, just don't try to make pass off your opinions as Rossi's.

Naturally we have to interpret more than simply the words. For example after the incident at Jerez 2011 when Stoner asked Rossi "how's the shoulder" then patted him on the shoulder I think (I can't actually read his mind so it's just an interpretation) he was being sarcastic.

When Lorenzo said Rossi was an aggressive rider Rossi laughed. Again people laugh when the are happy no? But my interpretation was the laugh was sarcastic.

When Rossi said Pedros pass was Marquez like Pedro laughed. You tell me, was it because he was happy or was it the same reaction as Rossi's? As in haha .... you!

Jumkie · Sep 16, 2016

Iamapony said:
What are we to make of this piece here? While I find the title misleading, it seems this throws a wrench into all kinds of opinions on various sides. Simon Claims Marc thinks Jorge is a girlie-man and Rossi is his squeeze. Or something like that.
(If it is a re-post, I have no idea how I missed it.)

Hahaha, what wrench? This guy has the journalistic capacity that Uccio has in managing a team. Not sure why you think this piece changes anything. I'm laughing because as part of our discussion we've mentioned ...... journalists, put this guy near the top, in a pool of exceedingly ...... "journalists".

"Lorenzo went on the WARPATH...."

Colorful. Sensational!

"But, both recipient and provider of many equally aggressive moves while locked in a VARIOUS battle with Rossi himself only a week before, the Repsol Honda was left SURPRISED by Lorenzo’s response when questioned.

(Really, was he "surprised"?)

“I was a little bit far behind them when it happened, but I could see that he overtook. For me, it was a normal overtake. Yes, of course, it was AGGRESSIVE, but when you are in a home circuit you always give more. Valentino is always really smart and he knew that Jorge had a good pace, so he made an aggressive move but within the limit.”

Take a look at this guy's smug face. I wonder if his nickname is Simon VUDU. His breaking news heading is 'Marc sides with Rossi'...EXCEPT Marquez said the pass was AGGRESSIVE! Jesus. No wonder this sport is ruined by boppers. Meaning has been turned on its head. Hard racing was ok until Rossi moaned about it to high heaven last year.

Last week at Silverstone the boppers were crying Marquez was up to his dirty little ways supposedly, but at Misano, hey, that's just racing Lorenzo.

Here is my headline: Marquez sides with Lorenzo that pass was "aggressive"!

Marquez said, describing Rossi's pass as "aggressive".

All of convoluted "journalists" created drama, that Rossi is now employing to garner sympathy (as if he needed it for his minions) is STILL THE AFTERMATH of Rossi's last year debacle. This is a Rossi creation, and the aftershocks have continued to contaminate the sport with custard colored feces.

If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.

p4p1 · Sep 16, 2016

Iamapony said:
What are we to make of this piece here? While I find the title misleading, it seems this throws a wrench into all kinds of opinions on various sides. Simon Claims Marc thinks Jorge is a girlie-man and Rossi is his squeeze. Or something like that.
(If it is a re-post, I have no idea how I missed it.)

What a dog .... article. I would say something but it would pretty much just be a repeat of what Jumkie said.

Gaz · Sep 16, 2016

Iamapony said:
What are we to make of this piece here? While I find the title misleading, it seems this throws a wrench into all kinds of opinions on various sides. Simon Claims Marc thinks Jorge is a girlie-man and Rossi is his squeeze. Or something like that.
(If it is a re-post, I have no idea how I missed it.)

Geez that is laughable.

Poorly written and for someone called a 'reporter' it is somewhat embarrassing when being reproduced in or on a site such as MCN as it is quite amateurish in so many ways with clickbait assumption.

Ah well, lets see if MCN censor comments ............

p4p1 · Sep 16, 2016

I think DORNA made a mistake business wise in the Sepang aftermath. Marquez after Rossi is the most media friendly rider they've had. He's arguably the most exciting on track rider as well, they(and Rossi) managed to alienate fans from supporting Marquez by their continued support of Rossis conspiracy and actions. Rossi only has a couple of years left Marquez meanwhile has a minimum of 10 but will more likely be 15, while I'm certainly biased in the fact I believe Rossi should've been called out for everything leading up to after Sepang the media manipulation by Rossi and DORNA has as I've seen turned Marquez fans into Rossi fans which is a short term plan that likely will cost them millions in the long term. Turning Rossi into the bad guy(he was for the record) wouldn't have lost them money at all as there would still be the good vs evil battle going on plus the yellow horde wouldn't have seen anything wrong with his despicable actions. Now what they have is a rider who is media friendly, fan friendly and a balanced and well adjusted adult(compared to his rivals) who normally gives very good answers to difficult questions painted as an outcast and the bad guy in a situation where he was and is the innocent party. I see this hurting them in the long term, manipulating some of the media to turn Rossi fans into Marquez fans because of his blatant cheating and petulance would've been a good long term business move IMO.

PS cbf proof reading as I'm about to go get food. There could be some mistakes or not so clear language I'm there.

michaelm · Sep 16, 2016

GeniusAtTwerk said:
This is getting embarrassing now.

What, that you don't understand the reference? I don't think you have sufficient insight to be embarassed.

I will spell it out for you. You approach any discussion of Rossi as though it was a theological debate, and you a medieval theologian.

michaelm · Sep 16, 2016

p4p1 said:
I think DORNA made a mistake business wise in the Sepang aftermath. Marquez after Rossi is the most media friendly rider they've had. He's arguably the most exciting on track rider as well, they(and Rossi) managed to alienate fans from supporting Marquez by their continued support of Rossis conspiracy and actions. Rossi only has a couple of years left Marquez meanwhile has a minimum of 10 but will more likely be 15, while I'm certainly biased in the fact I believe Rossi should've been called out for everything leading up to after Sepang the media manipulation by Rossi and DORNA has as I've seen turned Marquez fans into Rossi fans which is a short term plan that likely will cost them millions in the long term. Turning Rossi into the bad guy(he was for the record) wouldn't have lost them money at all as there would still be the good vs evil battle going on plus the yellow horde wouldn't have seen anything wrong with his despicable actions. Now what they have is a rider who is media friendly, fan friendly and a balanced and well adjusted adult(compared to his rivals) who normally gives very good answers to difficult questions painted as an outcast and the bad guy in a situation where he was and is the innocent party. I see this hurting them in the long term, manipulating some of the media to turn Rossi fans into Marquez fans because of his blatant cheating and petulance would've been a good long term business move IMO.

PS cbf proof reading as I'm about to go get food. There could be some mistakes or not so clear language I'm there.

They are venture capitalists. Short term is the name of the game. They may well plan to sell out before Rossi is done.

Which is the problem with handing over a sport like gp bike racing with all its traditions to such people.

danski · Sep 16, 2016

Gaz said:
Geez that is laughable.

Poorly written and for someone called a 'reporter' it is somewhat embarrassing when being reproduced in or on a site such as MCN as it is quite amateurish in so many ways with clickbait assumption.

Ah well, lets see if MCN censor comments ............

Lol, that is badly written,
"the Repsol Honda was left surprised by Lorenzo’s response when questioned."
So he's been dissed by Marc and he's now asking the bike questions:spin:

GeniusAtTwerk · Sep 17, 2016

Gaz said:
Interesting that you compare Marquez as someone who is 'objectively thought of as one of the most aggressive passers in the grid' as a way of trying to deflect any criticism of Rossi when Marquez is just as objectively recognised as the one rider on the grid who is more like Rossi than is any other rider.

Since he entered MotoGP (and to a degree prior) all comparisons were between MM and VR in terms of marketability, riding and yes, their aggressiveness and single minded determination on a bike.

To call Rossi aggressive is (IMO) not incorrect as he is one of the most aggressive riders out there. If he sees a gap and he wants to get past then he will go for that gap, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't work (Jerez) but he will make the effort. It is just as recognised that when trying to pass Rossi you will be made to work harder than you will with many other riders (assuming that it is a fight for position and VR has no issue to slow him) as it is Rossi's style to defend his position and he does it better than many.

Without aggression these guys could not and would not have achieved that which they have as they will temper aggression and use it to their advantage. Rossi is a master at the hard racing pass and has been for years (again, sometimes they go wrong) and there are many examples where he has made another rider decide to fight or cede position.

Point is, to call a rider aggressive is in many ways a compliment and does not have to correlate to a dirty rider (IMO) just as to call a rider clean, does not have to correlate to a weaker rider.

The point for mine from the weekend was more that Esparagaro and Lorenzo have started to 'call out' Rossi which to me indicates an undercurrent of discontent within the paddock with some riders now no longer being intimidated by the shadow cast.

I have enjoyed so the various forums of late who are saying that Rossi is entitled to an opinion but other riders are not which is in itself an indicator of the state of affairs of the sport

I'm not making any distinction between aggressiveness/dirtyness of Rossi and Marquez or other riders, Lorenzo is the one who SEEMS to make that distinction, something that Rossi (and me) opposed to. I don't think any riders currently are dirty (as in their defining trait), to me Marquez seems to be the one who skirts around the edges of that definition the most, Rossi probably 2nd.

GeniusAtTwerk · Sep 17, 2016

p4p1 said:
It's not Rossis only transgression though it's his worst.

What do you mean? I meant that Rossi finding Marquez' riding unacceptable/dirty 1 or 2 races out of 65 doesn't mean when Rossi calls a random pass Marquezesque that pass is dirty in his opinion. Especially when in the 1 or 2 races in question Marquez' overall aggressiveness wasn't the issue.

Mick D · Sep 17, 2016

michaelm said:
They are venture capitalists. Short term is the name of the game. They may well plan to sell out before Rossi is done.

Which is the problem with handing over a sport like gp bike racing with all its traditions to such people.

39% owned by CPPIB.

"Pension funds tend to make investments for the longer term, and are less concerned with piling on debt on their companies and more on generating a reliable and constant return, to help service their pension payments."

Richy56 · Sep 17, 2016

GeniusAtTwerk said:
I'm not making any distinction between aggressiveness/dirtyness of Rossi and Marquez or other riders, Lorenzo is the one who SEEMS to make that distinction, something that Rossi (and me) opposed to. I don't think any riders currently are dirty (as in their defining trait), to me Marquez seems to be the one who skirts around the edges of that definition the most, Rossi probably 2nd.

After last year Rossi is beyond dirty, I would put him on a par with a dogs scrotum

Round 13: 2016 San Marino Grand Prix - Misano World Circuit Marco Simoncelli

p4p1

GeniusAtTwerk

GeniusAtTwerk

Jumkie

Gaz

p4p1

Iamapony

moto vudu

birdman

Jumkie

p4p1

Gaz

p4p1

michaelm

michaelm

danski

GeniusAtTwerk

GeniusAtTwerk

Mick D

Richy56

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