Round 13: 2016 San Marino Grand Prix - Misano World Circuit Marco Simoncelli

JPSLotus said:

Kropo backed the journalist as being reputable.

Just stop already.

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How many times have you called Kropo out? And suddenly his word is gospel?
Hmmmm

Daniboy said:

You 99% poopoo journo's till one comes up with a tale of dastardly doings by Mr Rossi, the truth of the matter is that Spanish and Italian journo's routinely invent and print controversy about the opposing national rider. When it was MM/JL in 2013 there were not many stories at all.

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You do have a point about "yellow journalism" (that's actually a real term). I just don't think Rossi going ballistic on Pedrosa was A made up story. Rossi took issue with Iannone too, a fellow countryman.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_journalism

If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.

Daniboy said:

How many times have you called Kropo out? And suddenly his word is gospel?
Hmmmm

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I've called Kropo out for refusing to acknowledge what Rossi did last year as well as his need to tread carefully on the subject in his reporting. He knows exactly what I am talking about. My problem with Kropo and the rest is for not being straightforward about Rossi and the seeking to trivialize his behavior.

He was willing to vouch for the journo's rep on this one which isn't the same as what I have called him out for.

Try again.

Dani, here's the thing, it was an unflattering story about Rossi.

We all know how unflattering stories about Rossi are treated by the media at large; with a 10 foot pole.

Hell look at you, Twerk and Vudu. The three of you can't even deal with stuff that paints Rossi in a not-so-good light.

Michael Scott, is the best known journalist out there who has been willing to admit on record who and what Valentino Rossi really is.

JPSLotus said:

I've called Kropo out for refusing to acknowledge what Rossi did last year as well as his need to tread carefully on the subject in his reporting. He knows exactly what I am talking about. My problem with Kropo and the rest is for not being straightforward about Rossi and the seeking to trivialize his behavior.

He was willing to vouch for the journo's rep on this one which isn't the same as what I have called him out for.

Try again.

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So if you doubt his ethics in other areas why would his approval of A.N.Other journo carry any more weight? Perhaps the journalistic corps routinely agree with each other.

JPSLotus said:

Dani, here's the thing, it was an unflattering story about Rossi.

We all know how unflattering stories about Rossi are treated by the media at large; with a 10 foot pole.

Hell look at you, Twerk and Vudu. The three of you can't even deal with stuff that paints Rossi in a not-so-good light.

Michael Scott, is the best known journalist out there who has been willing to admit on record who and what Valentino Rossi really is.

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OMG so the alien thing is true Yes brilliant writer but just as biased as any other hack. As with the recent happenings in this country, one day a respected journalist , the next a self serving scaremonger.
And I don't always see VR in 'the yellow glow' he has faults, he has qualities but I don't dwell on either.

Daniboy said:

So if you doubt his ethics in other areas why would his approval of A.N.Other journo carry any more weight? Perhaps the journalistic corps routinely agree with each other.

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Here's what you wrote:

the truth of the matter is that Spanish and Italian journo's routinely invent and print controversy about the opposing national rider

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You tried to paint it as a typically nationalist bent of reporting.

Kropo thought enough to retweet it, which should have removed all doubt to it being simply a Spanish journo backing a Spanish rider.

There's nothing that supports your assertion this was invented or ginned up to create controversy.

Daniboy said:

OMG so the alien thing is true Yes brilliant writer but just as biased as any other hack. As with the recent happenings in this country, one day a respected journalist , the next a self serving scaremonger.
And I don't always see VR in 'the yellow glow' he has faults, he has qualities but I don't dwell on either.

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Michael Scott was on record pulling the curtain back on Rossi over a decade ago with regards to his behavior. This was well before the Jerez 2005 incident that changed the minds of some about the type of rider and person Rossi really is at the end of the day.

JPSLotus said:

Here's what you wrote:



You tried to paint it as a typically nationalist bent of reporting.

Kropo thought enough to retweet it, which should have removed all doubt to it being simply a Spanish journo backing a Spanish rider.

There's nothing that supports your assertion this was invented or ginned up to create controversy.

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So do you deny that happens?
He RT'd it but did it appear in any other reputable publication? It's a moot point anyway as VR's late season press engagements were not his best efforts.

Daniboy said:

So do you deny that happens?
He RT'd it but did it appear in any other reputable publication? It's a moot point anyway as VR's late season press engagements were not his best efforts.

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Whether it happens or not is irrelevant to this particular incident Dani. I've not been arguing about whether it happens or does not happen as it has nothing to do with the larger issue at hand in this case.

This didn't occur at a press conference, and as is, the incident in question Kropo retweeted was on October 26, 2015 which was the day after the Sepang race.

Why would it have gotten play from the majority of journalists who had written or were writing their PR damage control pieces for VR by that point?

Hmm, how does that work? In the middle of writing a spirited defense of VR, that all hinges upon his assertion several days earlier that Marc Marquez conspired to .... him over by beating Jorge Lorenzo --his challenger for the 2015 title-- at Phillip Island, and now followed up with the Sepang shitfest...the journalists are going to offer a counterpoint? Something they refused to do after taking VR's word at face value and running with it. They are suddenly going to interject with a, "Oh and by the way, Rossi approached Pedrosa after Aragon to complain about being raced hard for position"?

It would undermine the working thesis nearly every single writer had, which was: MM ...... VR at PI, MM was ....... with VR at Sepang, and VR was trying to talk some sense into the ungrateful wretch. The few who tried to look at it more evenly, still managed to get in that MM shared some of the BLAME, because look at what that little THUG did at Phillip Island! The gall!

Hahaha, I mean the whole thing was a train wreck. What makes it even funnier is after all you guys were all so sure MM was out to .... VR because VR claimed it, and now suddenly, something unflattering about VR that should have been talked about in the wake of Sepang, is a, "Well we can't really trust that, Spaniard journos like to back Spaniard riders, and Italian journos do the same thing for Italian riders. So we can't TRUST THIS, OH NO SIREE!"

JPSLotus said:

Whether it happens or not is irrelevant to this particular incident Dani. I've not been arguing about whether it happens or does not happen as it has nothing to do with the larger issue at hand in this case.

This didn't occur at a press conference, and as is, the incident in question Kropo retweeted was on October 26, 2015 which was the day after the Sepang race.

Why would it have gotten play from the majority of journalists who had written or were writing their PR damage control pieces for VR by that point?

Hmm, how does that work? In the middle of writing a spirited defense of VR, that all hinges upon his assertion several days earlier that Marc Marquez conspired to .... him over by beating Jorge Lorenzo --his challenger for the 2015 title-- at Phillip Island, and now followed up with the Sepang shitfest...the journalists are going to offer a counterpoint? Something they refused to do after taking VR's word at face value and running with it. They are suddenly going to interject with a, "Oh and by the way, Rossi approached Pedrosa after Aragon to complain about being raced hard for position"?

It would undermine the working thesis nearly every single writer had, which was: MM ...... VR at PI, MM was ....... with VR at Sepang, and VR was trying to talk some sense into the ungrateful wretch. The few who tried to look at it more evenly, still managed to get in that MM shared some of the BLAME, because look at what that little THUG did at Phillip Island! The gall!

Hahaha, I mean the whole thing was a train wreck. What makes it even funnier is after all you guys were all so sure MM was out to .... VR because VR claimed it, and now suddenly, something unflattering about VR that should have been talked about in the wake of Sepang, is a, "Well we can't really trust that, Spaniard journos like to back Spaniard riders, and Italian journos do the same thing for Italian riders. So we can't TRUST THIS, OH NO SIREE!"

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Never believed any of that PI stuff, not sure why you persist with that notion. I still would like to see actual evidence of the Aragon incident that comes from a source beyond question.

David Emmet gained nothing by retweeting what he did, so there's no reason to believe that it wasn't true unless you don't want to. As JPS said it was against a lot of what him and other journos were pedalling.

Edit to add: am reading the article now Krop wrote about Sepang now, one of the earliest lines says how a tragedy happened because '3 great riders let their masks slip' which for one thing is ....... ......... One rider let his mask slip, one was innocent and the other was showing his displeasure of his closest competition being allowed to cheat.

2nd edit: 'Marquez showed himself to be a petty man' because going toe to toe with someone who calls you a cheat is petty.

'Márquez to one side after Rossi's attack and tell him to behave with dignity, that if he wants to race Rossi, he should do so fairly and cleanly?' - he did

p4p1 said:

David Emmet gained nothing by retweeting what he did, so there's no reason to believe that it wasn't true unless you don't want to. As JPS said it was against a lot of what him and other journos were pedalling.

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And there's no reason to believe it was true unless you want to, that is my point , people believe or add credence to things they want , based upon their allegiances .

Daniboy said:

And there's no reason to believe it was true unless you want to, that is my point , people believe or add credence to things they want , based upon their allegiances .

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Like I said, while I don't agree with a lot of what Kropo writes when it comes to analyzing particular situations, he's also not in the habit of advancing what could be deemed yellow journalism. See, my issue with him is about not taking stronger positions where certain situations have warranted it, and opting instead to try and straddle the line.

So has Vudu called ........ on Rossi yet?

Surely he's not employing a double standard.

If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.

Daniboy said:

Yes, I respect Jorge's tweet, why do think that Vale's gesture was empty? I put Nicky's tweet on because Dani has copped a lot of hatred for his mistake in Estoril ten years ago that carried on for too long.

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You were way late on that one as well .................. had already been posted but you obviously didn't go back that far in the thread

Daniboy said:

If he's seething then an empty gesture it is most definitely not, yes he was extremely disappointed but he gave a personal congratulation and rightly so.
Why not stop clutching at any straw to attack VR?

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Seething at not winning his home race .............. yes, absolutely.

Empty gesture ............. I go with not as he has no (current) beef with Pedrosa and to be fair, he does not see Pedrosa as a championship threat.

Yes, whilst he may have given up 5 points to Pedrosa in this event, he gained points on those against whom he is genuinely battling so I suspect he would be pissed and seething, but genuinely ok to happy with Dani winning

yamfan said:

I agree with your statement and have to admit I based my opinion on his past behaviour. I do however suspect Lorenzo noticed Rossi's anger (behind the scenes and away from any cameras) and decided to create a bit of mischief in the press conference, knowing that he would bite immediately, as was the case.

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I think Lorenzo has decided that he is leaving an as he does not like the place so much he will leave a huge turd unflushed.

The press conference and his comments were just the start of that turd.

Jumkie said:

So has Vudu called ........ on Rossi yet?

Surely he's not employing a double standard.

If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.

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The only double Vudu gets involved in is when both Rossi and Uccio's nuts are on his chin.

GeniusAtTwerk said:

I don't think for took offense in Lorenzo not being happy in that move, but rather Lorenzo saying that (all) other riders overtake more cleanly, which is clearly not true. I remember in the video he started laughing after that statement and the first counter-argument Rossi gave was that Marquez made 10 of these moves in the previous race, which would seem to support my theory.

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But Lorenzo also said 'it is my opinion and I am entitled to it no, your opinion may be different', and in that, Lorenzo is 100% correct.

As for VR himself, well he mentioned Marquez's pass and all fair to him, but he has complained of others over the years (I do believe that Elias and Toseland have already been mentioned, not that Toseland passed him much, and there have been others) so he does need to reign in somewhat his reactions (and before it is mentioned, yes, heat of moment of press conference so things easily overlooked/forgotten until retrospect)

Jumkie said:

So has Vudu called ........ on Rossi yet?

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No, hell is yet to freeze over

Daniboy said:

Never believed any of that PI stuff, not sure why you persist with that notion. I still would like to see actual evidence of the Aragon incident that comes from a source beyond question.

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i specifically didn't mention you in regard to PI when making a similar general point to JPS myself, but that general point is that the conjecture Rossi made about PI, said with certainty to the world press at large and which will quite likely blight the remaining careers of 2 great riders just as the careers of several previous Rossi rivals were blighted, was just that, complete conjecture. To be aghast about a couple of guys on this obscure forum blighting Rossi's reputation, as Genius (not a bad bloke for a Rossi zealot) is, would seem to be rather a splinters and logs situation, particularly since he will brook no disagreement with Rossi's own conjecture.

If what that Spanish journalist said is only what you would expect from a biased Spanish journalist, what is it exactly we should expect from one Valentino Rossi given recent and indeed past form?

I also have a lot of time for David Emmett myself, he is passionate about the sport and seems to try to be accurate, and actually often says when he is engaging in conjecture. He had nothing to gain from the fairly unequivocal statement supporting that Spanish journalist, and indeed a lot to lose given that he is trying (struggling apparently) to make a living from a sport where being anti-Rossi is not exactly a sound commercial strategy. I am not sure Jumkie has ever condemned him as a liar or inaccurate, just for not not being a sufficiently trenchant critic of Rossi and other elements of the status quo by Jumkie's lights.If the guy concerned is a leading Spanish journalist, as well as possibly being biased he is also the most likely to have heard on the grapevine what someone like Dani Pedrosa thinks, which Dani is certainly not going to broadcast to the world at large publicly particularly at a time when his compatriots are the subjects of a witch hunt. It would have been hearsay anyway, just as MM's opinions about Rossi's actions at Argentina and Asssen were his opinions only and not trotted out by him at pre-race press conferences. Part of the crux of all this is that Rossi was prepared to voice so vehemently without proof what were at best suspicions.

Rossi stated the ten or so Marquez overtakes at Silverstone. Marquez, a childhood Rossi fan has studied Rossi's style and overtakes. He adopts the same overtaking style and has even replicated some of Rossi's more audacious ones. I really don't understand how Rossi can complain about a guy using the same techniques as himself that are if anything, done better by the youngster.