Misano * RACE* thread

[L8Braker]

Well I won't comment on the race incident in turn 2, it's been debated and everyone will see something that someone else doesn't see. It was a bonehead move IMO but it's racing. Crushed for Hayden and Edwards.
Congrats to Rossi. I wish I could say the race was exciting compared to WSBK. In any case I can't believe the wait we have until the next round. I will say the competition is getting better and the next race should be exciting with the return of Casey and Nick's new found confidence on the bike (which I hope translates into the next round).

 

[Jumkie]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (surendhar @ Sep 8 2009, 12:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>As seen in this picture they are taking different lines and hence the different speed differential which would have caused this carnage. But yes de angelis should take the blame but is Jlo also responsible!?!? (as he seems to cut in sharply to take the corner thus forcing Edwards to brake heavily)

You are mistaken my friend, Lorenzo cuts across as much as anybody in front of him (this is called race line) but he was still ahead of Colin. Suren, I think you may be confusing different ‘race line’ with different speed (in the case of Deagnelis, impossible speed). Its happens regularly where people take different race lines but that doesn't mean the guy behind 'checks up'. Look at a 250 race; this is most defined & apparent there. The picture you show is from the front, but look on the side and you will see that Lorenzo is ahead of Colin causing zero disruption to Colin's SPEED. Its like saying Pedora cut in front of Colin. Well yeah, because he was ahead. You imply that when Lorenzo does that he somehow slowed down. Post some pics from the side. Its only AFTER DeAngelis makes contact that Edwards is he thrust into Lorenzo NOT BEFORE. that's how hard DeAgelis came in, enough energy to push Edwards into Lorenzo.

Surenhar, you boys are saying that Lorenzo slowed down, or cutting in, causing DeAngelis to come in so fast if Edwards had not made contact with Lorenzo until the hit from behind. Look at it from the side, you will see Lorenzo on the outside and already you can detect DeAngelis too hot.

Look closely at your own picture (2). Edwards wheel has not even touched Lorenzo's and DeAngelis bike is alread on the ground (see underneath). That means Edwards touches Lorenzo AFTER torpedo.



My god, how is this even debatable?

 

[Jumkie]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Sep 8 2009, 01:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I dont think in any of my posts i suggested hayden was to blame in any way,did i ?

although he was not to blame for the crash he is to blame for the unsportsmanlike behaviour after. If someone crashed into me on the road and i started swearing and threatening violence i would be arrested. Why should nicky get a free pass. If its nicky that does it it's called passion. if another rider behaves like that peeps scream for a ban.

The only violence you're gonna see is my "upper cut " in your gold teeth if I come to stay next year.

Btw ya clown, Nicky didn't actually hit GayAngelis (which he should have) , I'd say that was pretty restrained against a man who just tried to kill you.

Pay this man no mind people, he's just trying to have a go at Hayden fans because we pointed out Rossi putting foot squarely in mouth last week.

Keep running your mouth poofta. I'll have you know on Arab's bequest, I'm exercising and bulking up some muscle. I'm gonna get you sucka.

 

[babelfish]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 8 2009, 04:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Look closely at your own picture (2). Edwards wheel has not even touched Lorenzo's and DeAngelis bike is alread on the ground (see underneath). That means Edwards touches Lorenzo AFTER torpedo.

FYI the pic(2) where taken after the touch between Edwards and Lorenzo.

 

[Jumkie]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Sep 8 2009, 08:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>FYI the pic(2) where taken after the touch between Edwards and Lorenzo.

Post some pics just before and just after pic two then please. I want to see this contact from Edwards on Lorenzo BEFORE Deangelis' torpedo.

 

[babelfish]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 8 2009, 05:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Post some pics just before and just after pic two then please. I want to see this contact from Edwards on Lorenzo BEFORE Deangelis' torpedo.

I'm not saying Edwards hit Lorenzo before the angel slide tacle edwards, just that the pic were taken after Edwards' bike hit Lorenzo's.

 

[Jumkie]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Sep 8 2009, 02:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm not saying Edwards hit Lorenzo before the angel slide tacle edwards, just that the pic were taken after Edwards' bike hit Lorenzo's.

Ok, fair enough. I can't remember what your take was Babel, but do you think it was DeAngelis who screwed up or Lorenzo? (Sorry, but I've read so many opinions I can't remember yours).

 

[babelfish]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 9 2009, 12:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ok, fair enough. I can't remember what your take was Babel, but do you think it was DeAngelis who screwed up or Lorenzo? (Sorry, but I've read so many opinions I can't remember yours).
I don't have a strong opinion on this one. Surly a bad mistake/misjudgment by the angel but also a very typical race incident where there is a number of factors leading to the actual accident.
You can't blame Lorenzo for the accident, that's for sure, but his line created a situation and that was the first in a chain that gave the result. The strange thing is that entering turn 2 Edwards and De angelis have very similar line and speed, but Edwards soon slow down because of the traffic ahead, De Angelis doesn't. I don't know if this is because his view are blocked by edwards, a death wish, moon phase or most likely a slightly different and more aggressive line preventing him from braking as hard as Edwards. I'm just guessing but surly his mistake was going in too hot, problem is that he committed to his line and entry speed long before anyone could guess Lorenzo's slow entry, slamming the door. He probably should have forseen trouble though and stayed more conservative but all in all this is a clear race incident and AFAIK none of teams seemed to think differently as I've heard of no protests.

 

[Jumkie]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Sep 8 2009, 03:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>all this is a clear race incident
What is not a "racing incident"? Are there any kinds of crashes that you think are not within the mere realm of "racing incident'? I for one think DeAngelis doesn't qualify since he came in at an impossible speed. Not even sure if he applied the brakes. Seems to have used Edwards for that.

BTW, I pretty much disagreed with 95% of your take (I suppose that is progress since I usually disagree 100%). Your post seemed very diplomatic Babs. Not tiyical of you. Not sure how this Lorenzo thing has crept into the conscience of this crash, but it seems to have got legs. I for one blame Canepa.

 

[VHMP01]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 8 2009, 10:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Post some pics just before and just after pic two then please. I want to see this contact from Edwards on Lorenzo BEFORE Deangelis' torpedo.

I used to be able to insert pictures... how the hell do I do it now?

 

[VHMP01]

I am going to get flamed for this... am I not? If it is any trouble bring'em down Ben please!

 

[VHMP01]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 8 2009, 01:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>...You are saying Rossi and Lorenzo slowed down...

.... DeAngelis, he's an .....!

No compa, When I mentioned the difference between Rossi’s and Lorenzo´s speed before the clash, is to point out how much faster Rossi took that corner entrance… So it seems Lorenzo slowed down more than others, therefore Edwards catching up and barely touching him (I think). Of course the effect grows and piles up… So I am not excusing De Angelis (Stupid mistake) but a bit of the same apply to Lorenzo on my view. Hayden was just a victim clearly, so in the heat of the moment I may have reacted equally. Afterwards an apology from both to the public, if it must not be to De Angelis, should have been said.

 

[surendhar]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Sep 9 2009, 11:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>No compa, When I mentioned the difference between Rossi’s and Lorenzo´s speed before the clash, is to point out how much faster Rossi took that corner entrance… So it seems Lorenzo slowed down more than others, therefore Edwards catching up and barely touching him (I think). Of course the effect grows and piles up… So I am not excusing De Angelis (Stupid mistake) but a bit of the same apply to Lorenzo on my view. Hayden was just a victim clearly, so in the heat of the moment I may have reacted equally. Afterwards an apology from both to the public, if it must not be to De Angelis, should have been said.

+1 Exactly my thoughts, you had put it better than me.

Jumkie, I agree with you that DeAngerous made a stupid mistake but even Jlo contributed to it.. But thats only my opinion.

 

[babelfish]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 9 2009, 12:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What is not a "racing incident"? Are there any kinds of crashes that you think are not within the mere realm of "racing incident'? I for one think DeAngelis doesn't qualify since he came in at an impossible speed. Not even sure if he applied the brakes. Seems to have used Edwards for that.

BTW, I pretty much disagreed with 95% of your take (I suppose that is progress since I usually disagree 100%). Your post seemed very diplomatic Babs. Not tiyical of you. Not sure how this Lorenzo thing has crept into the conscience of this crash, but it seems to have got legs. I for one blame Canepa.

Canepa allways has the blame for every thing

People seem very eager to point fingers at someone, and in this case few doesn't point at De Angelis and non should point at Lorenzo. That doesn't change the fact that his choice of line and slow speed at a point led to other events that eventually resulted in the crash.

A racing incident is AFAIK by definition all incidents that receive no reaction from the officials.
They don't deal out blame to anyone but we still do

When they do receive a reaction it's no a "Racing incident" anymore.

Look at the new pic's and see how De Angelis and Edwards speed were virtually the same at the entrance of the turn. That suddenly change dramatically and if someone can find a reason for that, then you have the direct cause of the accident. I think Edwards with the best pov and most experience saw what was coming at around Pic3 and slowed down, while De Angelis were more occupied about getting ahead of Hayden.

 

[babelfish]

Double post