Misano * RACE* thread

[chopperman]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Sep 7 2009, 04:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Please

How can it be Jorge's fault when the two riders directly behind him slowed and adjusted their lines? How can it be Lorenzo's fault when DeAngelis is charging quixotically up the inside under the false pretense that his extraordinary skill is causing him to gain ground on Colin and Nicky?

Jorge is to blame? For what? For exercising discretion by slotting in behind his teammate and refusing to pull por fuera on his teammate during the first lap?

DeAngelis is absolutely at fault. Furthermore, DeAngelis was a ....... yesterday, no, he was a triple ....... yesterday. He 1) crashed and scored 0 points 2) failed to finish in his home grand prix and 3) he managed to take out both of the manufacturers from whom he's currently seeking employment for 2010.
hahaha the haydenettes are all crying

Put it this way lexyboy. if your travelling up the freeway in a line of traffic and the knob head 4 cars up slams his breaks on for no reason. you slam yours on but the car behind you runs up the back of you, who fault is it ?

well it the person who ran up the back of you's fault but it was the knob head who slamed his brakes on for no reason that caused it.

you haydenettes yould stop being so emotional and use yur powers of reason

 

[gsfan]

Well not exactly the same. A highway is not a race track and visa versa. You have to be able to trust the guys you are going at lethal speeds with.

 

[Jumkie]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teomolca @ Sep 7 2009, 02:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'll cut some slack to De Angelis, yeah he made a mistake, knocked 2 riders out (almost 3) but AFAIK this is the first time he does it, the guy is fighting for a job and he's in his home GP.

i think thats what u said about Pedrosa. This was not a simple mistake, just like Pedrosa, they wer both blinded by ther visions of glory. You guys sure give a big pass to people who in a moment of blind stupidity ruin the hard work of an entire team. From the lowest go-for boy to the team manager to the riders being professional.

If DeAngelis would hav torpedoed Rossi and perhaps blown his lead u guys mite b yelling bloody murder. Im not sure if ur a Lorenzo fan Teo but he also got clipped. This fool DeAngelis had no consideration that his blind hope for a successful home GP could just as easily took Lorenzo out of the title hunt. Do u remember how much was made of Elias crash on Rossi? For an entire year they didnt let it go and sited this as part of the reason he lost the title.

Maybe because it hasnt happened to ur fav rider that people are so quick to let it go. Yes, iv been very vocal, alot of it is tongue and cheek & silly venting, but u guys calling it a simple "mistake" or "racing incident" are way off base. These guys hav been racing for years. Even if they are rookies to the class should not be a pass for such blind unprofessionalism and stupidity.

 

[Jumkie]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Sep 7 2009, 04:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Sorry, watched this again. I'm mistaken. Jorge certainly had parked it, and really didn't look fast through the turn, but it was Colin who had to back off the throttle because of this. As a consequence, DeAngelis who was arriving faster, had nowhere to go. Watch it - you can visibly see Edwards slow because of Jorge.


These maneuvers are only really questionable IMO when the rider has no chance of making the turn or keeping it rubberside down
I respectfully disagree brotha. Take another look at the speed difference between all the riders going into that turn, including Rossi. Now compare that to DeAngelis. He did exactly what you mention in your second point, "rider had no chance of making the turn" . The speed difference between DeAngelis was flawed before he took everybody out, not the other way around.

 

[ROCKGOD01]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Sep 7 2009, 07:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>hahaha the haydenettes are all crying

Put it this way lexyboy. if your travelling up the freeway in a line of traffic and the knob head 4 cars up slams his breaks on for no reason. you slam yours on but the car behind you runs up the back of you, who fault is it ?

well it the person who ran up the back of you's fault but it was the knob head who slamed his brakes on for no reason that caused it.

you haydenettes yould stop being so emotional and use yur powers of reason

Rog you know that it in no way was Haydens fault. If that happend to Rossi there would be such outcry about it the site would be bogged down so much cause of it. The guy in back should be the one to be careful but Alex didn't show any restraint and racecraft at all. It was him trying to live up to his billboards as though he is championship material.

 

[mylexicon]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Sep 7 2009, 12:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>hahaha the haydenettes are all crying

Put it this way lexyboy. if your travelling up the freeway in a line of traffic and the knob head 4 cars up slams his breaks on for no reason. you slam yours on but the car behind you runs up the back of you, who fault is it ?

well it the person who ran up the back of you's fault but it was the knob head who slamed his brakes on for no reason that caused it.

you haydenettes yould stop being so emotional and use yur powers of reason

Hayden's season was shot a long time ago, he recently signed a contract extension for 2010, and he had a very slim chance of making the box this weekend. I have no Haydenette motivation, only anger towards another moronic 250 child who takes out front runners and ruins races.

It just frequently happens that Hayden is one of their favorite targets.

 

[Mastodon]

de Angelis himself even said he went in too fast and deep. it doesn't matter if Rossi was there or no one was there, de Angelis got over anxious and ...... up the first turn. no matter what track you are at you have to be careful in the first few turns, nevermind one as tight as Misano.

 

[chopperman]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Sep 6 2009, 05:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>....... charlie .... screaming rossi's down when we all saw rossi clear turn 2 and we could all see it was a tech3 bike in the gravel. what a knob, .... off back to oz cos you know .... all about gp. was he actually watching the race prior to the crash ? i dont think so.

the way i saw it. lorenzo slowed a tad to much causing nicky and colin to break quite hard. rainbow was carrying to much speed to avoid the yanks. stupid hot headed move by rainbow.

masterful rider by the doctor.
i called
rossi
lorenzo
capi
dan in my pics, nearly came true.
Ok ladys, thats look at what i said before all the haydenettes start slitting there wrists

 

[GatorDuc]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mastodon @ Sep 7 2009, 04:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>de Angelis himself even said he went in too fast and deep. it doesn't matter if Rossi was there or no one was there, de Angelis got over anxious and ...... up the first turn. no matter what track you are at you have to be careful in the first few turns, nevermind one as tight as Misano.

"No race has ever been won in the first corner; many races have been lost there."

I agree, and find it difficult to understand how this crash is even debatable, but then again, it seems EVERY crash is heavily debated on this forum (and it's enjoyable to read the opinions) based on the author's rider bias. However, I was under the impression that it's a well know axiom of racers to "restrain" themselves when going into the first corner of the race (or second in this case). I think it's obvious de Angelis did'nt show such restraint.

 

[babelfish]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GatorDuc @ Sep 7 2009, 11:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>"No race has ever been won in the first corner; many races have been lost there."

I agree, and find it difficult to understand how this crash is even debatable, but then again, it seems EVERY crash is heavily debated on this forum (and it's enjoyable to read the opinions) based on the author's rider bias. However, I was under the impression that it's a well know axiom of racers to "restrain" themselves when going into the first corner of the race (or second in this case). I think it's obvious de Angelis did'nt show such restraint.

I guess the American lynch mob create some reactions.
But it sure is as you say entertaining, especially regarding the authors bias. For sure no coloured glasses here

 

[chopperman]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Sep 7 2009, 10:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I guess the American lynch mob create some reactions.
But it sure is as you say entertaining, especially regarding the authors bias. For sure no coloured glasses here

It's fun to clash swords with the haydonettes again aint it

there filling the void for the stoner apologists

 

[JohnnyKnockdown]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Sep 7 2009, 06:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It's fun to clash swords with the haydonettes again aint it

there filling the void for the stoner apologists

Jumkie add C-man to your list of Pinky aliases because he's become quite the hater this weekend.
Rog you've done some serious fishing today.
Of course I'm pissed that it was Hayden that went down but I was as equally upset
because initially I thought it was Rossi or Lorenzo that went down.
What would that have done to the championship. How pissed would Dorna be if it was Lorenzo.

 

[Jumkie]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GatorDuc @ Sep 7 2009, 02:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>"No race has ever been won in the first corner; many races have been lost there."

I agree, and find it difficult to understand how this crash is even debatable, but then again, it seems EVERY crash is heavily debated on this forum (and it's enjoyable to read the opinions) based on the author's rider bias. However, I was under the impression that it's a well know axiom of racers to "restrain" themselves when going into the first corner of the race (or second in this case). I think it's obvious de Angelis did'nt show such restraint.
Here is a tip my friend. Whenever u mite b confused about who is right or wrong in a debate, just read my position--thats the correct one.

 

[VHMP01]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GatorDuc @ Sep 7 2009, 04:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>…it seems EVERY crash is heavily debated on this forum

Well, we have 4 weeks to go… lets crap on!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Sep 7 2009, 02:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well not exactly the same. A highway is not a race track and visa versa. You have to be able to trust the guys you are going at lethal speeds with.

I agree, in any case, at a highway you are supposed to keep a safe distance!

And at a track the closer the front to back tyres get, the better excitement!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Sep 7 2009, 10:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Please

How can it be Jorge's fault when the two riders directly behind him slowed and adjusted their lines? How can it be Lorenzo's fault when DeAngelis is charging quixotically up the inside under the false pretense that his extraordinary skill is causing him to gain ground on Colin and Nicky?

Jorge is to blame? For what? For exercising discretion by slotting in behind his teammate and refusing to pull por fuera on his teammate during the first lap?

DeAngelis is absolutely at fault. Furthermore, DeAngelis was a ....... yesterday, no, he was a triple ....... yesterday. He 1) crashed and scored 0 points 2) failed to finish in his home grand prix and 3) he managed to take out both of the manufacturers from whom he's currently seeking employment for 2010.

I am almost sure Edwards touches Lorenzo before De Angelis hits him… In fact, I can see Edwards head bump a bit just before De Angelis catches them. Go ahead, pause it right there, look carefully and it seems to me to have happened that way. If true, then it's more probable for Lorenzo to absorb some blame. And for Hayden and Edwards to emit an apology of course.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 7 2009, 02:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i think thats what u said about Pedrosa. This was not a simple mistake, just like Pedrosa, they wer both blinded by ther visions of glory. You guys sure give a big pass to people who in a moment of blind stupidity ruin the hard work of an entire team. From the lowest go-for boy to the team manager to the riders being professional.

Jumks please try to look and pause it right when Edwards head bumps just a bit…

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 7 2009, 02:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If DeAngelis would hav torpedoed Rossi and perhaps blown his lead u guys mite b yelling bloody murder. Im not sure if ur a Lorenzo fan Teo but he also got clipped. This fool DeAngelis had no consideration that his blind hope for a successful home GP could just as easily took Lorenzo out of the title hunt. Do u remember how much was made of Elias crash on Rossi? For an entire year they didnt let it go and sited this as part of the reason he lost the title.

You said it yourself… 'Lead' as in leading the Championship… not quit the same as back Riders. Although I will give you that one: We would be yelling 'Bloody Murder' alright!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 7 2009, 02:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Maybe because it hasnt happened to ur fav rider that people are so quick to let it go. Yes, iv been very vocal, alot of it is tongue and cheek & silly venting, but u guys calling it a simple "mistake" or "racing incident" are way off base. These guys hav been racing for years. Even if they are rookies to the class should not be a pass for such blind unprofessionalism and stupidity.

But it has happened to a lot of Pros, this 'First turn incidents' are quite common in a lot of tracks and that's a big why everyone really pushes for the front row.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 7 2009, 03:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I respectfully disagree brotha. Take another look at the speed difference between all the riders going into that turn, including Rossi. Now compare that to DeAngelis. He did exactly what you mention in your second point, "rider had no chance of making the turn" . The speed difference between DeAngelis was flawed before he took everybody out, not the other way around.

I have watched over and over… Go ahead Jumkie, look at the speed between Rossi and Lorenzo right before Edwards caught up to Lorenzo, and then of course De Angelis mistake too.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Sep 7 2009, 03:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Rog you know that it in no way was Haydens fault…

I agree here! But after things settle he simple should analyze whom and how much to blame on. Edwards should take his words back I think (although they were great in the heat of the moment, so was Hayden pushing around).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 7 2009, 09:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Here is a tip my friend. Whenever u mite b confused about who is right or wrong in a debate, just read my position--thats the correct one.

 

[Jumkie]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Sep 7 2009, 07:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Jumks please try to look and pause it right when Edwards head bumps just a bit…

I have watched over and over… Go ahead Jumkie, look at the speed between Rossi and Lorenzo right before Edwards caught up to Lorenzo, and then of course De Angelis mistake too.
Actually I have, to see if there is anything in what you are saying. Sorry I don't see it. But what I do see is DeAngelis speed differential. You are saying Rossi and Lorenzo slowed down; yes true, but that was to correctly negotiate the turn. Now you look at the speed at which Edwards catches up to Lorenzo, and compare this speed to DeAngelis. For a moment it looks like DeAngelis is on another lane. DeAngelis hits Edwards so hard that he launches him into Lorenzo.

Seriously, there are some crashes that seem undisputable. I thought this was one of them. Apparently not. V & Arab, you too seem to have different takes, which my respect for you both has made me take a 20th look. Hahaha, yeah really brothers. But I arrive at the same conclusion, not sure what you guys are seeing.

V, you said Lorenzo should share some of the blame? Do you think Edwards would have gone down with that touch you say you see of Lorenzo? Do you think that touch you say you say would have resulted in Hayden going down? If you say no, then how can you logically conclude that Lorenzo should share some blame? DeAngelis comes in so hot as to make Lorenzo/Edwards contact irrelevant (and I’m still not convinced there was any before DeAngelis). There is no way you can see the cause of putting both Edwards and Hayden on their side be attributed to Lorenzo since the thrust of the trajectory comes from behind.

I’m baffled we are even debating this my friend. Why haven’t Nicky or Edwards reported any contact before the hit? Surely Edwards might mention that he had made contact with Lorenzo when the bulldozer came from behind. Colin has never been shy about calling out other’s mistakes or his own. Surely he would have said he touched Lorenzo’s back tire. Si?


EDIT:

Just saw the footage again. NO WAY DID EDWARDS TOUCH LORENZO BEFORE DEANGELIS HIT. AFTER WATCHING THIS AGAIN, THIS IS NOT UP FOR DEBATE. I defy you to show some pics, you will notice that Lorenzo is higher on the track than Edwards. Its only after DeAngelis hit does Edwards hit Lorenzo. Lorenzo had as much to do with this incident as Canepa--that is to say NOTHING. (Not screaming at you, actually at the TV compa(s). Ya know I have nothing but love for my peeps).

I'm done with this debate. This incident is as clear to me as: Pedorsa's/Nicky 06 torpedo, Checa's/Neucker 08 torpedo (wsbk), Kallio's/Melandi 09 topredo. Its a no brainer.

.... DeAngelis, he's an .....!

 

[Mick D]

This is such a non-issue. When racing it IS NOT incumbent on the racer in front to worry about those behind. Lorenzo did what he needed to get through turn two. Edwards adjusted to Lorenzo. Nicky adjusted to Colie and Jorge AND tried to adjust for the oncoming rainbow scud which he said he saw coming. Alex, apparently didn't sense the adjustments ahead or was completely unable to make any... It was his responsibility not to contact those ahead and he obviously failed miserably.

 

[surendhar]

As seen in this picture they are taking different lines and hence the different speed differential which would have caused this carnage. But yes de angelis should take the blame but is Jlo also responsible!?!? (as he seems to cut in sharply to take the corner thus forcing Edwards to brake heavily)

 

[Mick D]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (surendhar @ Sep 8 2009, 02:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>...but is Jlo also responsible!?!? (as he seems to cut in sharply to take the corner thus forcing Edwards to brake heavily)
NO in capital letters N - O. The rider in front has NO RESPONSIBILITY to the riders behind - his responsibility is to get through the corner. It is the FOLLOWING rider who must react. This is a basic part of racecraft kids...

 

[chopperman]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (surendhar @ Sep 8 2009, 08:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>As seen in this picture they are taking different lines and hence the different speed differential which would have caused this carnage. But yes de angelis should take the blame but is Jlo also responsible!?!? (as he seems to cut in sharply to take the corner thus forcing Edwards to brake heavily)
you can clearly see in thos pics that jorge cut across colin causing him to break hard, so if its the person at the rears fault then colin is also to blame

 

[chopperman]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Sep 7 2009, 09:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Rog you know that it in no way was Haydens fault. If that happend to Rossi there would be such outcry about it the site would be bogged down so much cause of it. The guy in back should be the one to be careful but Alex didn't show any restraint and racecraft at all. It was him trying to live up to his billboards as though he is championship material.
I dont think in any of my posts i suggested hayden was to blame in any way,did i ?

although he was not to blame for the crash he is to blame for the unsportsmanlike behaviour after. If someone crashed into me on the road and i started swearing and threatening violence i would be arrested. Why should nicky get a free pass. If its nicky that does it it's called passion. if another rider behaves like that peeps scream for a ban.