It wasn't a race against other bikes, it was a race within one brand.
I am not making a judgement, I'm just saying that Yamaha didn't fancy him after seeing his performance.
I like the lad, so hoping he stays in WSBK, and continues to stoprak
2024 World Superbike - Round 4 (Finally) - Misano
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I am not making a judgement, I'm just saying that Yamaha didn't fancy him after seeing his performance.
I like the lad, so hoping he stays in WSBK, and continues to stoprak
Joined Nov 2012
991 Posts | 997+
I haven't had the time to follow as many racing series as I would like to, but Toprak's performance on the bike is, as everyone says, phenomenal. Not a single other BMW rider has been on the podium this year. If it wasn't for Toprak, it would look like the bike is substandard.
Toprak has now won six out of twelve races in the season so far. And nobody else has won more than two. Seasons can turn on a dime, and the three race wins at Misano could be a bit of a flash in the pan. But, even without last weekend, he still would have more race wins than anyone else.
Toprak has now won six out of twelve races in the season so far. And nobody else has won more than two. Seasons can turn on a dime, and the three race wins at Misano could be a bit of a flash in the pan. But, even without last weekend, he still would have more race wins than anyone else.
Joined Mar 2016
2K Posts | 2K+
FNQ
Bautistas crash in the sprint race looked near being really nasty, with him staying and the bike coming back over the racing line. No footage however aside from his onboard.
I get what you're saying, but it was still a one off test and his first time on the bike. Also his first time on that track, if I'm not mistaken.
I do think it will be a blow for WSBK if he goes, but if it's his goal to give MotoGP a crack I think he should go for it. You only live once!
The rumor that BMW might be joining in 2027 won't go away, so maybe a BMW entry with Toprak being one of the riders isn't too far fetched....
Joined Nov 2012
991 Posts | 997+
Even with the might of BMW, I wouldn't expect them to be challenging for the championship right away. It might be best for both Toprak and BMW if Toprak goes there first, and gains experience on other bikes while BMW is building up and entering.
I can't see Toprak signing on for 2025 while it's still unknown if he will win the WSBK championship this year. So, 2026 at the earliest. Still one year before BMW's earliest (that I can see) entry, and years before (I would predict) BMW could be competitive.
M
The thing is I believe he wants to try motoGP, and while I haven’t been following WSBK closely reading between the lines Yamaha scuppering his GP prospects may have been a factor in his departure.
If BMW are to enter MotoGP, which I will believe when I see it, they could do worse than Toprak imo. By your argument the current moto 2 riders might as well stay in moto 2 and add lustre there, I don’t think any of them are challenging the current talent in the premier class anytime soon either.
Maybe they should have kept him longer and got him to sort the bike, their incumbent moto GP guys weren’t doing much of a job of that last year.
The thing is I believe he wants to try motoGP, and while I haven’t been following WSBK closely reading between the lines Yamaha scuppering his GP prospects may have been a factor in his departure.
If BMW are to enter MotoGP, which I will believe when I see it, they could do worse than Toprak imo. By your argument the current moto 2 riders might as well stay in moto 2 and add lustre there, I don’t think any of them are challenging the current talent in the premier class anytime soon either.
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Personally I consider the jump from Moto2 to MotoGP less than from WSBK.
I'd also believe that a young rider coming through the MotoGP classes have more to gain by going to the top class, than a rider steeped in WSBK, inching towards 30.
I understand Toprak wants to try MotoGP, and he has deserved the right to try.
From a fan viewpoint, I'd like him to remain in WSBK.
What been said though is that HRC have him as one of the rolles of their 2027 dices. Either he does get that chance, or one with another brand, I don't see the clear advantages of him being in a factory and developing a bike. Just as Marquez, he is that special.
As you are no doubt aware in the olden days superbikes were probably a better background for 500 GP bike racing than the 125s or 250s were.
These days I don’t really see why moto 2 should be a better preparation than superbikes either.
The thing is what you have already mentioned in regard to the premier class, the talent level. The moto 1 and moto 2 guys have been identified and put on the path from their mid teenage years, the Red Bull programme etc., and moto 2 is very likely to have more up and coming talents than WSBK, often a place to which GP riders retire at the end of their careers. It is possible that Toprak comes from left field, I don’t know about his early career but being from Turkey he may not have been in a place to get into the precursor series, and the connection with Kenan Sofaglu might have set him on the WSBK path. You are probably correct though, it would be very hard to make a splash against the current established talent level in motogp, and the up and coming Acosta who may be a Rossi or Marquez level talent, starting at age 30 or more, by which age MM and Rossi had won 6 and 7 premier class titles having started winning premier class titles in their early 20s.
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Joined Nov 2012
991 Posts | 997+
Moto2 does seem to work well as preparation for MotoGP. While there is still some adaptation, a fair number of Moto2 riders seem to step up to MotoGP and be not too far off very quickly. The current example is Acosta, but there are others such as Marquez. Both Quartararo and Bagnaia required two years to adapt however.
I personally think that's not so much due to the bikes, but to everything else. Moto2 ride on the same tracks, share the same paddock, and get an opportunity to mix with the MotoGP people and teams. It's possible that this all contributes to Moto2 riders being more ready for graduation to MotoGP.
Razgatlioglu started his career in Europe, though quite early on switched to riding in superstock classes and immediately shone. I don't know what the different skills are for superbike versus gp racing, but Razgatlioglu seems to have those superbike skills. Given what is happening in Turkey, I think that if Razgatlioglu wanted to stay on the MotoGP route, he would have had the opportunity to.
Good intel. Official announcement from Bonovo was today on the world sbk website. Did they say something in the sessions that I missed? or do you have your ear to the ground?
Superbike appears to have a similar arrangement to MotoGP with a factory (index) team and a satellite squad. If BMW remain in superbike, they may need to find another team. Maybe a UK outfit will step-up or maybe BMW will run 2 teams. Feels like something big is in the works for World Superbike, particularly with Liberty's purchase and grand prix teams commenting about the level of bike performance.
Imo, Toprak is large in stature and has excellent bike control. Those are positive attributes, particularly after the combined minimum weight rule, because it's easier to muscle around heavy production bikes, and it's possible to ride around the limitations of a production bike.
MotoGP is prototype. The teams are trying to avoid riding around issues and the rules are not kind to larger riders. In 2027 the front fairing will be even narrower, which might not help Toprak, even if the rules favor the rider.
I heard it during one of the sessions, from one of the commentators. Can't remember who it was.
Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
Even Scott Redding had his day as I can remember with 2 GP podiums in an era where things most certainly did not favor a rider of his stature.
Toprak is on another level at least where superbikes are concerned. On paper, Bulega and Bautista should be wiping the floor with him...but that's not been the case.
I could see him doing well with the right sort of ride in GP. I don't think that test he was given on the M1 was particularly fair as I felt it was stacked against him big time. I think just by virtue of how great a braker he is, that takes a huge part of the GP equation out of the picture since I feel that is the most important skill to have at that level. But I guess we will find out if BMW decides to enter. Toprak as a 2027 GP rider would be fascinating if nothing else. I wouldn't bet on him to win a race by any means, but I think he could give a good show.
Yes, I looked it up, he did ride Red Bull rookies as a 16 and 17 old before switching to super stock. I still think being from Turkey might have made it harder for him. The large stature thing is very salient though, and there isn’t much he can do about that if he goes to gp racing.
I agree with familiarity with the circus and circuits being an advantage for riders who come through moto 2, but don’t see how the actual moto 2 bikes are a superior preparation. If a rider excels in moto 2 it is against the best young talent in the world who have been identified as teenagers and put on the path to the premier class, so a higher bar than world super sport and probably WSBK at least talent wise as I said previously.
Kenan Sofuoğlu has been the biggest hindrance for Toprak not moving to MotoGP. He makes too much money off his pupil through sponsors and factory deals in WSBK than he would have if Toprak were a non-Factory, non-Championship winning rider in MotoGP.
Fully agree with this. In fairness, he did do a lot for Toprak, but I do think he is being controlled too much at this point. Any opportunity that might have been missed in the past is only because it didn't suit Kenan (this is only based on my opinion, no facts of course)
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Toprak is now the clear championship favorite after sweeping the weekend at Ducati's home track.
I think BMW just has to join MotoGP in 2027, SBK is not nearly getting the attention it deserves and doesn't have a great variety of locations (Balaton Park has also been dropped and replaced by Estoril). From a marketing standpoint the brand won't really be noticed if they continue to just run SBK, even if they win championships.
I think BMW just has to join MotoGP in 2027, SBK is not nearly getting the attention it deserves and doesn't have a great variety of locations (Balaton Park has also been dropped and replaced by Estoril). From a marketing standpoint the brand won't really be noticed if they continue to just run SBK, even if they win championships.
I thought BMW didn't give much attention to racing, in general, as their sales were from mainly GS adventure bikes and the K class tourers
Joined Mar 2023
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Australia
It's seems nowadays that Manufacturers in MotoGP are more about branding than the sale of sports bikes. Honda is the classic example using their MotoGP status to sell millions of tiny bikes in SE Asia
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