GP12 tested today at Jerez

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Nino said:
They're probably testing stuff applicable to the current bike, but how's anybody going to prove it?



Innocent till proven guilty imo.
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Exactly,what does the rules say about using 2011 parts in 2012?

It's no rules saying you have to build a completely new bike.



If people like me can think of this I'm sure all teams has thought about too ofcourse.
 
bluegreen said:
Some minor part like the swingarm, exaust, bodywork, motor, and suspension?



Here's my take. This is only an unfair advantage if the the other manufactures aren't able to do the same thing. And they are. The only reason anybody is making a big deal over this is because Ducati went first. If Honda did this first, then Ducati, nobody says anything. If Honda thinks they are being ...... around believe me, they'll say something. They are very serious about winning.
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This
 
Keshav said:
To say Ducati has nothing to lose... is to imply that somehow they are taking a risk. In order for them to "lose" something

- they have to risk something.



1. What exactly do you believe Ducati is risking?



2. Given that the rules are made so that everyone gets the same amount of testing time - is there some reason why you

believe Ducati should be exempt from following the rule?
Click to expand...





What about all that drivel eh?



They have nothing to lose, in terms of starting a 'war' with Honda who are already spending a load of of money, and at some point have to hit the ceiling. In any case if Ducati test at certain locations, it shouldn't cost them a fortune.



At no point did I insinuate any wrongdoing on the part of Ducati, that's in your head. The rules are pretty clear. Ducati were testing the GP12, the rest is conjecture and hyperbole.
 
Well , its 9:15 pm in Jerez Spain. Not one word of Nicky riding the GP12 today. By this time yesterday, we had videos and interviews.
 
The photo's of Nicky testing look like he has the 2011 swing arm rather than the inverted Yamaha swing arm that Rossi was using.
 
Nino said:
What about all that drivel eh? Code for duh! I can't comprehend the concept of cause and effect.



They have nothing to lose, in terms of starting a 'war' with Honda who are already spending a load of of money, and at some point have to hit the ceiling. In any case if Ducati test at certain locations, it shouldn't cost them a fortune.



At no point did I insinuate any wrongdoing on the part of Ducati, that's in your head. The rules are pretty clear. Ducati were testing the GP12, the rest is conjecture and hyperbole.
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It's a new engine in the GP11 chassis. What part of "The Ducati chassis is the core

problem with the GP11" do you not comprehend? Even if testing the 2012 bike

turns out to be legal - this is not the 2012 bike.



I never said you insinuated wrongdoing - but while the jury is out - the general consensus is that Ducati's actions are suspicious at best.

What they are doing is unprecedented - but if the Ducati's are all of a sudden competitive at the the next round - whether they cheated

or didn't - public opinion will be that they did. Personally - I don't think it will avail them much. Unless it transpires that the Japanese

have agreed to this extra testing - Ducati's action will seem at the least dishonorable. IMO the whole thing smacks of desperation.
 
bluegreen said:
Some minor part like the swingarm, exaust, bodywork, motor, and suspension?



Here's my take. This is only an unfair advantage if the the other manufactures aren't able to do the same thing. And they are. The only reason anybody is making a big deal over this is because Ducati went first. If Honda did this first, then Ducati, nobody says anything. If Honda thinks they are being ...... around believe me, they'll say something. They are very serious about winning.
Click to expand...





Well said. The others will get their chance.
 
Jumkie said:
Ya think?



Let me get this straight, so a couple of weeks ago we hear Burgess say that Rossi wants some things changed for the engine and Ducati is working on it to present at Estoril. Today they test a "GP12", which turns out to be a GP11 with a different engine...what r we so confused about? They even painted it like a GP11 so ther wont be any mistake. WTF



Oh, and J4rno, get off it already, i dont even think some of the crazies here buy ur insisting that Ducati is doing nothing extraordinary. U keep harping about all the changes as no big deal. J4rno crying--hey guys, dont call it a YamaDuc, even Honda did this, bla bla. Hello, what about Jap do u not understand in Italian? Ducati's swing arm and side exhaust mite as well come from the Yamaha garage dude. Mayb we r all seeing and reading a mirage? Exactly how does ur sense of alternate reality give anything u say credibility? Answer: it doesn't.
Click to expand...



Oh my here you go again...

Inverted swingarms and exhaust pipes coming out of the fairings do not mean ..... Even Suzuki has or has had them. It's no NASA stuff or rocket science. But I suppose for you ANY development at Ducati is something illegal, since Rossi is going to use it. YAWN
<
 
J4rn0 said:
Oh my here you go again...

Inverted swingarms and exhaust pipes coming out of the fairings do not mean ..... Even Suzuki has or has had them. It's no NASA stuff or rocket science. But I suppose for you ANY development at Ducati is something illegal, since Rossi is going to use it. YAWN
<
Click to expand...



Not rocket science - troo enuf. But if what they learn is used to improve the 2011 bike - then it's not kosher.

Rossi is not the Anti-Christ - but that he wields a great deal of influence in the world of MGP is undeniable

and it's not unthinkable that he and Ducati would under the circumstances fudge the rules to get an advantage

in the 2011 season. Those who feel Rossi is already pulling too many strings - will naturally be inclined to see this as a blatant

abuse of his influence. Can't be helped. Right or wrong - perception is important.
 
Keshav said:
Not rocket science - troo enuf. But if what they learn is used to improve the 2011 bike - then it's not kosher.

Rossi is not the Anti-Christ - but that he wields a great deal of influence in the world of MGP is undeniable

and it's not unthinkable that he and Ducati would under the circumstances fudge the rules to get an advantage

in the 2011 season. Those who feel Rossi is already pulling too many strings - will naturally be inclined to see this as a blatant

abuse of his influence. Can't be helped. Right or wrong - perception is important.
Click to expand...
And Honda probably have more engineers and resources than any other factory, who ....... cares. As a race fan the more competitive bikes we see the better, now if suzuki would start moving that would be great. All this ...... crying WTF you wanna see only yams and hondas fighting for victories while every one else is just a marker. The factories made an agreement that is going to give us all better racing. If rossi wasn't riding for ducati you could probably pull your head out of your ... and realize that this helps motogp.
 
Nino said:
This
Click to expand...

That quote ,Who is that ..... Neil Spalding?

Doesn't he know what everybody else seems to know? ,that Stoners bike never changed during the year because Ducati said they have no money ,no matter how much Stoner pointed that out.Now with Rossi they have a different approach from sponsors.
 
Keshav said:
It's a new engine in the GP11 chassis. What part of "The Ducati chassis is the core

problem with the GP11" do you not comprehend? Even if testing the 2012 bike

turns out to be legal - this is not the 2012 bike.



I never said you insinuated wrongdoing - but while the jury is out - the general consensus is that Ducati's actions are suspicious at best.

What they are doing is unprecedented - but if the Ducati's are all of a sudden competitive at the the next round - whether they cheated

or didn't - public opinion will be that they did. Personally - I don't think it will avail them much. Unless it transpires that the Japanese

have agreed to this extra testing - Ducati's action will seem at the least dishonorable. IMO the whole thing smacks of desperation.
Click to expand...



It's an early version of the GP12, and testing next years bike is legal precisely because it wouldn't be legal to use that bike under this years race conditions. Even a ...... such as yourself should be able to understand that.



The 'general consensus'? What, did you carry out a survey or something? More conjecture and ......... I think the FIM and Dorna's viewpoints are much more important than anything else. As of now I've heard nothing from them which indicates that Ducati's actions are suspicious. Neither have I heard anything from the other manufacturers, probably because they've been planning to do the same thing all season.



This implication that I said Ducati were taking a risk is bollocks. For all we know the Japanese teams would have been doing testing of their own by now if it hadn't of been for the earthquake.



And if the whole thing is desperate, why do you seem so riled? Is it about 'honour'? Or perhaps you're actually worried that Honda will lose it's performance advantage.
 
Those who feel Rossi is already pulling too many strings - will naturally be inclined to see this as a blatant

abuse of his influence.
Click to expand...



In other words, those that are paranoid about Rossi will always be paranoid about him and assume the worst about him.



hawkdriver said:
And Honda probably have more engineers and resources than any other factory, who ....... cares. As a race fan the more competitive bikes we see the better, now if suzuki would start moving that would be great. All this ...... crying WTF you wanna see only yams and hondas fighting for victories while every one else is just a marker. The factories made an agreement that is going to give us all better racing. If rossi wasn't riding for ducati you could probably pull your head out of your ... and realize that this helps motogp.
Click to expand...



Exactly, I've wanted to see fairly even performance between at least three factories since the start of the year. That's what helps make great races.



Motor racing is all about factories pushing to the limit within the racing regulations. I wonder if these complaints would even be heard if it was say Spies and Hayden riding for Ducati.



Seems more like an anti-Rossi agenda than any real concern about regulations being broken.
 
Kropo, ive been meaning to ask u, if u watch the Jerez finish, when Nicky crosses the line, he starts to shake his left hand as if its in pain (or numb). Do u know if hes having some problem with it?
 
hawkdriver said:
And Honda probably have more engineers and resources than any other factory, who ....... cares. As a race fan the more competitive bikes we see the better, now if suzuki would start moving that would be great. All this ...... crying WTF you wanna see only yams and hondas fighting for victories while every one else is just a marker. The factories made an agreement that is going to give us all better racing. If rossi wasn't riding for ducati you could probably pull your head out of your ... and realize that this helps motogp.
Click to expand...



Clearly you're too enamored of Rossi to be able to clearly follow the debate with any clarity.

Your emotional outbursts are not a substitute for reasoned dialog.



What you're saying in essence is - if Rossi does it - it's not cheating - because what's good for Rossi

is more important than any considerations of fairness or sporting ethics. Rossi is beyond good and evil, etc.

We've all encountered this line of thinking (I wouldn't call it reason) before and you can be as macho and

blustery as you want - but it will never make you right.
 
Nino said:
It's an early version of the GP12, and testing next years bike is legal precisely because it wouldn't be legal to use that bike under this years race conditions. Even a ...... such as yourself should be able to understand that.



The 'general consensus'? What, did you carry out a survey or something? More conjecture and ......... I think the FIM and Dorna's viewpoints are much more important than anything else. As of now I've heard nothing from them which indicates that Ducati's actions are suspicious. Neither have I heard anything from the other manufacturers, probably because they've been planning to do the same thing all season.



This implication that I said Ducati were taking a risk is bollocks. For all we know the Japanese teams would have been doing testing of their own by now if it hadn't of been for the earthquake.



And if the whole thing is desperate, why do you seem so riled? Is it about 'honour'? Or perhaps you're actually worried that Honda will lose it's performance advantage.
Click to expand...



You continue to be incapable of making a point without the use of insults - because you're so angry all the time - because you know that nothing

you say has any foundation in reality. You're one of those persons who thinks they can employ bullying and loud talk to win a debate - and I'll tell you it never works.



You talk about how you abjure conjecture - and then a moment later are conjecturing about testing by the Japanese - wholly a fantasy - but have your head in the sand when it comes to testing by Ducati which is verified and undenied; cherry picking reality.



Again if they have nothing to lose - that implies they were taking some form of risk. Cause and effect.



Yes - honor, is one of the critical foundations of sportsmanship. Without honor - it's merely savagery - which is what your schoolboy, goonsmack debating technique (and I use the word very loosely) is because it lacks any integrity of intellect or ethics.
 
I just finished watching a very entertaining 250 GP race. 1993 Australian 250. Check it out.
 

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