GP12 tested today at Jerez

Jumkie said:

I just finished watching a very entertaining 250 GP race. 1993 Australian 250. Check it out.

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Is that the one with Troy Baylis as a wild card on the Suzuki?

Keshav said:

You continue to be incapable of making a point without the use of insults - because you're so angry all the time - because you know that nothing

you say has any foundation in reality. You're one of those persons who thinks they can employ bullying and loud talk to win a debate - and I'll tell you it never works.



You talk about how you abjure conjecture - and then a moment later are conjecturing about testing by the Japanese - wholly a fantasy - but have your head in the sand when it comes to testing by Ducati which is verified and undenied; cherry picking reality.



Again if they have nothing to lose - that implies they were taking some form of risk. Cause and effect.



Yes - honor, is one of the critical foundations of sportsmanship. Without honor - it's merely savagery - which is what your schoolboy, goonsmack debating technique (and I use the word very loosely) is because it lacks any integrity of intellect or ethics.

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Listen to you, you must be the most precious member on this forum. Talking about ethics when your bias towards Stoner is clear to see. I might be biased towards Rossi, but you won't see me preaching to other forum members about ethics because I'm not a hypocrite like you are.



And I'm not angry, just frustrated talking to someone so intransigent.

Japan's devastating earthquake and tsunami delayed the track debut of Honda's new four-stroke 1000cc MotoGP machine being developed for the 2012 MotoGP campaign.



http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/s...411JapanearthquakedelaysHonda1000cctrackdebu/



The bike was due to be track tested for the first time last week, but HRC boss Shuhei Nakamoto admitted the test was cancelled following the magnitude 9.0 earthquake.



Honda was to have used the Twin Ring Motegi circuit it owns to debut the RC212V 800cc replacement, but the circuit was damaged during the recent powerful earthquake Shuhei Nakamoto told MCN: "Dyno testing has just finished and we are happy. We wanted to test last week but our plan is now delayed. Suzuka or another track in the West side of Japan is available but we didn't have any fuel for the trucks, so we couldn't move. Fuel is being delivered again this week so maybe we will test soon."

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Yes, pure fantasy . See facts are better than conjecture.

good thing you brought it up, if anything its not very gentleman like to carry on with testing if the competition is hindered by natural disasters



from the information available ducati is testing their current bike with a few new parts that can and will end up on the gp11 and then on the gp12



i don't know where you should draw the line , but in my opinion it would be best just to allocate a number of test days to everyone and let them test whatever they want.after all i don't think ANY of the bikes will radically be different from this years...evolution , not revolution is the term here





except maybe for ducati who will have to build a proper bike next year, so if anything its as much of an disadvantage to concentrate on the gp11 (in regards to 2012) as it is an advantage to save at least some face this year. rossi and ducati are ...... if they don't improve the next couple of rounds



here lies in my opinion ducatis/rossis problem :

if there hadn't been stoner showing us all that the ducati can win races and championships they could just forget about this year and admit the bike is crap and then use all of their ressources to build a great gp12.

but since they can't do that they need every chance they can get to improve so that rossis deficits in riding compared to stoner aren't obvious anymore.

Nino said:

Listen to you, you must be the most precious member on this forum. Talking about ethics when your bias towards Stoner is clear to see. I might be biased towards Rossi, but you won't see me preaching to other forum members about ethics because I'm not a hypocrite like you are.



And I'm not angry, just frustrated talking to someone so intransigent.







Yes, pure fantasy

. See facts are better than conjecture.

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What you're apparently incapable of comprehending is that a person can be a fan of a particular rider

- and can still uphold an ethical standard. The two are not mutually incompatible.



The press release doesn't say Honda were planning to test the bike with Stoner, Pedrosa or Dovisioso.

It goes without saying they will test with factory testers. The difference is huge.



Intransigent. Oooh. Look yer using big words. You haven't been around here very long.

There have been more than a few times when I have freely admitted I was wrong.

Long-time PS folks will confirm this.

Given that it now appears Rossi is not so talented, Ducati's way round that is to get him more practice time. Mission accomplished.

Keshav said:

What you're apparently incapable of comprehending is that a person can be a fan of a particular rider

- and can still uphold an ethical standard. The two are not mutually incompatible.



The press release doesn't say Honda were planning to test the bike with Stoner, Pedrosa or Dovisioso.

It goes without saying they will test with factory testers. The difference is huge.



Intransigent. Oooh. Look yer using big words.

You haven't been around here very long.

There have been more than a few times when I have freely admitted I was wrong.

Long-time PS folks will confirm this.

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No what you don't understand is that I can spot a bullshitter when I see one. You can talk about ethics all you want but it's clear to see your own favouritism, so your principles only seem to be aired in relation to certain teams/riders.



Even if Honda were only going to test their 1000cc with their test riders, who's to say there aren't parts that could be added to their current bike? Unless Dorna or the FIM come out with something, Ducati are within the regulations. I'm more interested in these than your ethics.

Nino said:

Even if Honda were only going to test their 1000cc with their test riders, who's to say there aren't parts that could be added to their current bike?

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Testing of 2011 bikes by test riders are permitted by Dorna. So no need for them to test parts and that could be added to current bike. They could legally test the bike in its current form

Nino said:

No what you don't understand is that I can spot a bullshitter when I see one. You can talk about ethics all you want but it's clear to see your own favouritism, so your principles only seem to be aired in relation to certain teams/riders.



Even if Honda were only going to test their 1000cc with their test riders, who's to say there aren't parts that could be added to their current bike? Unless Dorna or the FIM come out with something, Ducati are within the regulations. I'm more interested in these than your ethics.

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Ethics do not belong to me. They are a universal principle. Apparently you think people with ethics or morals are effete.

Apparently - you think it's okay if MGP devolves to the level of soccer hooliganism. Doing the right

thing is for suckers. Have I got it right?



Testing bikes using factory testers is as far as I know not anything new. To the best of my knowledge - this is the norm.

If Ducati were testing with someone other than Rossi or Hayden - I would have no problem with it.



If you think I'm bullshitter - kindly provide one instance of un-truth in any of my posts. I've never hidden my preference for Stoner.

But this is not a Stoner issue - so your constant referral to him is a red herring. Ducati's cheating is an insult to all the

factories.



What Ducati is doing is unprecedented. I have been following GP bike racing since 1979 and cannot

recall one instance of a factory ever being accused by any responsible party - of cheating. There is

a gentlemans agreement to not cheat - and for the Japanese the shame of ever being caught would

too embarassing to live with.

Nino said:

No what you don't understand is that I can spot a bullshitter when I see one.

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Of course, because you can practise every morning when you brush your teeth.





Ahhhh, just couldn't resist.

Nino said:

Even if Honda were only going to test their 1000cc with their test riders, who's to say there aren't parts that could be added to their current bike? Unless Dorna or the FIM come out with something, Ducati are within the regulations. I'm more interested in these than your ethics.

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Like Kesh says, testing with test riders is essentially unregulated by the FIM. The only thing controlling testing with test teams is how much money factories want to throw at a project that, if they're lucky, will only provide a gain for less than a season.

Keshav said:

What Ducati is doing is unprecedented. I have been following GP bike racing since 1979 and cannot

recall one instance of a factory ever being accused by any responsible party - of cheating. There is

a gentlemans agreement to not cheat - and for the Japanese the shame of ever being caught would

too embarassing to live with.

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I wasn't knowing Ducati was being accused for cheating. Accused by whom? Do you have a link, source or something else? any competent body has manifested?

hawkdriver said:

And Honda probably have more engineers and resources than any other factory, who ....... cares. As a race fan the more competitive bikes we see the better, now if suzuki would start moving that would be great. All this ...... crying WTF you wanna see only yams and hondas fighting for victories while every one else is just a marker. The factories made an agreement that is going to give us all better racing. If rossi wasn't riding for ducati you could probably pull your head out of your ... and realize that this helps motogp.

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Couldn't agree more. ...., Yamaha and Honda already have a loads of money to throw in GP class, so if there is someone who need to complain about sport is the smaller factories like Ducati, Suzuki, Aprillia, and etc. I want to see smaller factories competitive enough, no matter how, for the sake of sport.



What is the point of having ethics when there are 2 dominant factories with lots of money, becoming even more dominant?

gui22a said:

I wasn't knowing Ducati was being accused for cheating. Accused by whom? Do you have a link, source or something else? any competent body has manifested?

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source

bluegreen said:

source

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He....he he..... hehehehe....

Before we start accusing Ducati of cheating, let's have someone in the know make the claim. We don't know enough about it, the agreement between the factories, and the tech specs of what is being tested.

lil red rocket pilot said:

Im wondering what sort of frame its gonna have. It will be interesting to see if the ali exoskeleton is back.

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Im also wondering if the steel trellis will return. Seem's Ducati are stuck in their ways but a jb / rossi influence may sway them

gui22a said:

Couldn't agree more. ...., Yamaha and Honda already have a loads of money to throw in GP class

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That's a complete .........

gui22a said:

I wasn't knowing Ducati was being accused for cheating. Accused by whom? Do you have a link, source or something else? any competent body has manifested?







Couldn't agree more. ...., Yamaha and Honda already have a loads of money to throw in GP class, so if there is someone who need to complain about sport is the smaller factories like Ducati, Suzuki, Aprillia, and etc. I want to see smaller factories competitive enough, no matter how, for the sake of sport.



What is the point of having ethics when there are 2 dominant factories with lots of money, becoming even more dominant?

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As far as I am aware there has never been a restriction on the amount of money you can spend or the size of your business. What I am aware of is that it is 100% against the rules to test outside of official tests with your factory race riders. Further to this there is a loop hole in the rules that doesn't cover bikes that can't line up on the grid next race because they don't comply with the rules. THIS IS ALL BEYOND DISPUTE. What is being debated is that there is a gentleman's agreement between the factories to not use this loop hole. That is why we have not seen ANY factory rider test a bike outside of official tests for the 800 era (not sure about rules in the first year). Of course that is until now. Under extreme pressure to get Rossi to the front Ducati have been forced to throw honour out the window and show contempt for the other manufacturers, riders, sponsors and fans. What they are doing is cheating and it is a disgrace.

Mental Anarchist said:

As far as I am aware there has never been a restriction on the amount of money you can spend or the size of your business. What I am aware of is that it is 100% against the rules to test outside of official tests with your factory race riders. Further to this there is a loop hole in the rules that doesn't cover bikes that can't line up on the grid next race because they don't comply with the rules. THIS IS ALL BEYOND DISPUTE. What is being debated is that there is a gentleman's agreement between the factories to not use this loop hole. That is why we have not seen ANY factory rider test a bike outside of official tests for the 800 era (not sure about rules in the first year). Of course that is until now. Under extreme pressure to get Rossi to the front Ducati have been forced to throw honour out the window and show contempt for the other manufacturers, riders, sponsors and fans. What they are doing is cheating and it is a disgrace.

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the entire issue might be superseded by a gentleman's agreement amongst the members of MSMA, who have apparently decided - and it will be ratified at Estoril - that 8 days of testing will be allowed for the 2012 bikes with official race riders.

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http://www.gpone.com/index.php/en/news/35-in-evidenza/3335-valentino-sulla-gp12-a-jerez.html



I think you have this backwards...

Surprising that after all this no-one has pointed out that were Ducati's testing with their top riders something that

all the other manufacturers willingly agreed to - we would reasonably expect to hear of Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki

acting likewise. Yet... not a peep.



It's as if Ducati were so cynically sure of themselves that they thought - let's just cheat right out in the open

- it will seem much less furtive. I'm not much one for conspiracy theories - but it really does seem as if Dorna

has given their blessing to this.



I expect in the end it this incident will be a tempest in a teapot - as a few tests of next year's engine (in this year's frame)

isn't going to be sufficient to make a silk purse from a sow's ear. I fully expect more shenanigans of this nature

as Ducati becomes increasingly embarrassed by Rossi's mediocre results.