GP12 tested today at Jerez

When Suzuki was blessed by Dorna to have one more engine last year, that was bad too? Dorna must help (or bless) minor factories, otherwise we'll have another Formula 1 with bikes.



I don't give a .... about honor, ethics, money thrown and stuff, I just wanna watch Stoner vs Lorenzo vs Rossi vs Pedrosa vs Dovisiozo vs Sic vs whatever other rider (the more the better, this further enhances a win) rather than the boring Stoner vs Lorenzo (or any 1 x 1) for one entire season.



If you have fun watching one or two dominant forces or one or two dominant riders/pilots every year, you can tune your TV on Formula 1.



AFAIK, MotoGP is still a competition sport, not yet a technology show made by the richest factory.

bluegreen said:

http://www.gpone.com/index.php/en/news/35-in-evidenza/3335-valentino-sulla-gp12-a-jerez.html



I think you have this backwards...

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The use of the terms "might" and "apparently" are hardly conclusive. What I also find disturbing is that you could hardly call the bike that VR rode a GP12 considering Ducati themselves have pointed out that the GP12 is still only in the design faze. I doubt that the manufacturers agreed that slipping the 2012 spec engine into the 2011 chassis would be considered a testing the GP12. After all it is Dorna that is arguing that an engine does not make a motorcycle and it is the chassis that is the motorcycle.



What I will say right now is that if Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki come out and ratify what Ducati has done I will offer up my humblest apologies to everyone. I can assume that if they do not you will be prepared to do the same thing and will join me in denouncing this whole saga as cheating.

gui22a said:

When Suzuki was blessed by Dorna to have one more engine last year, that was bad too? Dorna must help (or bless) minor factories, otherwise we'll have another Formula 1 with bikes.



I don't give a .... about honor, ethics, money thrown and stuff, I just wanna watch Stoner vs Lorenzo vs Rossi vs Pedrosa vs Dovisiozo vs Sic vs whatever other rider (the more the better, this further enhances a win) rather than the boring Stoner vs Lorenzo (or any 1 x 1) for one entire season.



If you have fun watching one or two dominant forces or one or two dominant riders/pilots every year, you can tune your TV on Formula 1.



AFAIK, MotoGP is still a competition sport, not yet a technology show made by the richest factory.

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This is complete BS. The hole yellow army was perfectly happy when Rossi was dominating the sport and it was never suggested that his competitors should be allowed to cheat or have the rules manipulated in order to make the racing 'better'. Now when your boy, just like in 2007, is getting his arse handed to him you are all about helping the under dog. Well I say F off. Honda, Yamaha, Stoner, Lorenzo and the rest of them have no and are not asking for any politically distributed advantages. All Stoner and Lorenzo have asked for is a level playing field so that their talent can be allowed to shine which is in stark contrast to Rossi who demands preferential treatment.

...., I didn't realise it was only Duucati that could perform a test like this, I was under the impression that all the teams could.

Goatboy said:

...., I didn't realise it was only Duucati that could perform a test like this, I was under the impression that all the teams could.

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Goatboy said:

...., I didn't realise it was only Duucati that could perform a test like this, I was under the impression that all the teams could.

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Talpa, as original as ever.

Jumkie said:

Talpa, as original as ever.

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Check out the times champ, looks like we are scarily united on this one!!!



Strange days indeed.....

Talpa said:

Check out the times champ, looks like we are scarily united on this one!!!



Strange days indeed.....

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I beat you by three minutes. That's a life time in racing.

Keshav said:

Surprising that after all this no-one has pointed out that were Ducati's testing with their top riders something that

all the other manufacturers willingly agreed to - we would reasonably expect to hear of Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki

acting likewise. Yet... not a peep.



It's as if Ducati were so cynically sure of themselves that they thought - let's just cheat right out in the open

- it will seem much less furtive. I'm not much one for conspiracy theories - but it really does seem as if Dorna

has given their blessing to this.



I expect in the end it this incident will be a tempest in a teapot - as a few tests of next year's engine (in this year's frame)

isn't going to be sufficient to make a silk purse from a sow's ear. I fully expect more shenanigans of this nature

as Ducati becomes increasingly embarrassed by Rossi's mediocre results.

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Or maybe your hatred of Rossi is not letting you realize that what ducati have done is within the agreement that the factories made. But you have no clue and have shown your hand by not waiting for the other factories to respond. The agreement for extra testing of the 2012 bikes is good for all of us and it wouldn't have been made if all of the factories weren't concerned about getting the best package onto the grid. And now you are talking about conspiracies while you are also saying that ducati is doing all it's business out in the open lol well tell us what's really going on most informed one.

Gee this is soooo obvious.



Ducati have conscripted the worlds most credible consultant that they could find as to why Rossi is a flop on the Ducati.



At Jerez that worlds most credible consultant delivered his analysis, which points out to Rossi that:



" Your ambitions outweigh your talent "



so obviously this whole test is aimed at getting Rossi some practice time that would help with the lack of talent problem.

Keshav said:

Apparently you think people with ethics or morals are effete.

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No, just you in your attempt to demonize Ducati.

gui22a said:

I wasn't knowing Ducati was being accused for cheating. Accused by whom? Do you have a link, source or something else? any competent body has manifested?

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That's exactly the sort of rubbish I'm talking about.



Apparently the word of the ominoptent Keshav is more important than that of the FIM and Dorna. Maybe his arrogance outweighs his intelligence.

Keshav said:

Not rocket science - troo enuf. But if what they learn is used to improve the 2011 bike - then it's not kosher.

Rossi is not the Anti-Christ - but that he wields a great deal of influence in the world of MGP is undeniable

and it's not unthinkable that he and Ducati would under the circumstances fudge the rules to get an advantage

in the 2011 season. Those who feel Rossi is already pulling too many strings - will naturally be inclined to see this as a blatant

abuse of his influence. Can't be helped. Right or wrong - perception is important.

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What the hell Rossi's influence (or supposed abuse of) has to do with Ducati adopting an inverted rear suspension and swingarm, like all other manufacturers already have??? You mean it was Rossi's recommendation? And what would be wrong with that?

Keshav said:

Surprising that after all this no-one has pointed out that were Ducati's testing with their top riders something that

all the other manufacturers willingly agreed to - we would reasonably expect to hear of Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki

acting likewise. Yet... not a peep.



It's as if Ducati were so cynically sure of themselves that they thought - let's just cheat right out in the open

- it will seem much less furtive. I'm not much one for conspiracy theories - but it really does seem as if Dorna

has given their blessing to this.



I expect in the end it this incident will be a tempest in a teapot - as a few tests of next year's engine (in this year's frame)

isn't going to be sufficient to make a silk purse from a sow's ear. I fully expect more shenanigans of this nature

as Ducati becomes increasingly embarrassed by Rossi's mediocre results.

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Do you think that the other manufacturers would not be capable to complain, if Ducati's testing was considered illegal by them? But you speak as if you were their (self-appointed) lawyer. Take a deep breath, and have a good look at your excess of anti-Rossi zeal..

Mental Anarchist said:

It is not about innocent or not. It is about the spirit of the competition, something that Rossi seems to care little about.



I would suggest that Ducati just instigated a testing war that they do not have the funds to win.



It would appear that they could be proven guilty sent to jail and given the electric chair and it would have little impact on the ability of you and yours to come up with some reason why it is not true.

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You too, don't you think Honda and Yamaha wouldn't complain if they thought Ducati is stretching the rules? Maybe you should offer them your services as consultant, along with Kesh -- surely they are not paying enough attention...

I'm more willing to question the testing taking place,than what they are testing as I come to think of it.

Were did it come from?

I have still not seen any news of other teams planning a test.And still no news from any of the ruling bodies talking about extra testing.



What are they testing? A chassi and an engine.Who's to say they're not planning on using a 2011 developed chassi in 2012?

I mean,the bikes/parts are constantly being developed ,right? What is 2011 and 2012?

Isn't Stoner using 2011 chassi by the way? For instance.

Anders GUZZI said:

I'm more willing to question the testing taking place,than what they are testing as I come to think of it.

Were did it come from?

I have still not seen any news of other teams planning a test.And still no news from any of the ruling bodies talking about extra testing.



What are they testing? A chassi and an engine.Who's to say they're not planning on using a 2011 developed chassi in 2012?

I mean,the bikes/parts are constantly being developed ,right? What is 2011 and 2012?

Isn't Stoner using 2011 chassi by the way? For instance.

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The extra testing has been allowed because, since next year there is a new formula, manufacturers need to test the new bikes. There are no clauses forbidding the new bikes from using current components, or current bikes from using next year's components (if they are compatible with current rules). It's something that's always been done... only this year it needed an authorization because of the (stupid) testing limitations being in force.



I tell you, if it had been Honda testing with Pedrosa or Stoner, nobody would have said anything about possible 'advantages' of such extra testing. But when Rossi is involved, you know what you can expect

J4rn0 said:

You too, don't you think Honda and Yamaha wouldn't complain if they thought Ducati is stretching the rules? Maybe you should offer them your services as consultant, along with Kesh -- surely they are not paying enough attention...

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Lets see what plays out in the lead up to the next race. I would suggest that Honda and Yamaha are less likely to make a snap response in the media and would be more likely to apply pressure on the FIM and Dorna if in fact Ducati have acted outside of the agreement. As I have stated if I am proven wrong then I will happily apologies and retract my comments. Until then I believe that there are no rules against me offering up an opinion as opposed to the NO TESTING RULES that apply in MotoGP.

J4rn0 said:

The extra testing has been allowed because, since next year there is a new formula, manufacturers need to test the new bikes. There are no clauses forbidding the new bikes from using current components, or current bikes from using next year's components (if they are compatible with current rules). It's something that's always been done... only this year it needed an authorization because of the (stupid) testing limitations being in force.



I tell you, if it had been Honda testing with Pedrosa or Stoner, nobody would have said anything about possible 'advantages' of such extra testing. But when Rossi is involved, you know what you can expect

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If the testing is allowed why was there no press releases from Dorna or the MSMA advising of it.



I suspect we have not seen Stoner or Pedrosa testing because the Japanese factories have honour and respect and if no agreement exists they would not do it. Why do we even need to discuss Stoner or Pedrosa anyway or is it a what seems to be a regular occurrence these days when Rossi does something wrong his fans try to divert attention else where?

J4rn0 said:

What the hell Rossi's influence (or supposed abuse of) has to do with Ducati adopting an inverted rear suspension and swingarm, like all other manufacturers already have??? You mean it was Rossi's recommendation? And what would be wrong with that?

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It of course has nothing to do with Rossi making recommendations. It has to do with Rossi being able to personally test and evaluate changes - when testing is specifically banned for competing riders.



You know Paisan - it's not just a few racing maven here in PS that have concluded Dorna and the racing press view Rossi as being bigger than

the sport. It's a widely held belief. Nothing wrong with Rossi making recommendations. However power and the abuse of it has been and continues to be an ongoing aspect of politics and religion. In this case our religion is racing. Popes have been known to have multiple ....... children and

contract to have people killed in order to get their way. Politicians do far worse. Why then is it so far fetched to suppose that Dorna et al might

collude for the purposes of keeping their prized money-maker at the top?



People have said some here are too quick to judge because the Japanese haven't yet protested. I'd say they are weighing their options and

considering if this is the new wave of testing - and rather than potentially killing the Golden Calf - are being statesmanlike before making

public their feelings about this.



On the other hand - there has been no official notice from Dorna sanctioning this. I reckon they are holding their breath, waiting for the other

shoe to drop.



Also note: I have not said Rossi was the circus master in all this. Maybe he's just the innocent victim of Dorna's overpowering need to

have him at the forefront and selling tickets.

Nino said:

No, just you in your attempt to demonize Ducati.

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Funny... no-one ever accused me of that when Stoner was riding at Ducati.